Crit Surpass Hit?

Warrior
I've been looking around and i'm seeing some fury warriors not stacking hit but instead stacking crit (Landsoul). At what level of gear / level of hit does crit become better than hit?

Well, from I've always been told since even back in Vanilla for Warrior dps is to pick the weapon with the highest top end damage. Highest top end > DPS. Also try to go for a Strength weapon over an Agi one.
anyone who stacks crit over hit is stupid..
they will get all crits when they hit.. but wont be hitting much..
Crit begins to outweigh hit a bit past the special cap, so fairly early in gearing. Crit is our best stat in this tier, and with the nerfing of HS will likely continue to be.
Ok thanks Sam, I guess I have some reforging to do.. =-D
He isn't stacking crit, and he is stacking hit. He just doesn't have a lot of gear with that option. He reforged over 500 into hit and 148 into crit. Every piece of gear that he could reforge something other than crit into hit, he did, except his ranged weapon where he did reforge crit into hit.
I'd certainly like to know where the tipping point is where you want to stop stacking hit and start going for crit. I'm sitting on about 20% hit at the moment, but my crit is only around 16-17%.

EDIT: I just saw Samayael's post about it being better past the special cap, where is that again? 8%? Wouldn't having hit around there be a bit rage inducing when it comes to rage income?

Then again Samayael usually has some pretty good information so I dunno.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that after ~18% hit, crit begins to shine more and more.
01/22/2011 9:21 PMPosted by Halar
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that after ~18% hit, crit begins to shine more and more.


It's much, much sooner than that. I'd venture to say around 13% is where crit starts to become better.

01/22/2011 9:13 PMPosted by Cur
He isn't stacking crit, and he is stacking hit. He just doesn't have a lot of gear with that option. He reforged over 500 into hit and 148 into crit. Every piece of gear that he could reforge something other than crit into hit, he did, except his ranged weapon where he did reforge crit into hit.


He is emphasizing crit over hit for the most part, though.
01/22/2011 9:35 PMPosted by Samayael

It's much, much sooner than that. I'd venture to say around 13% is where crit starts to become better.


So based on this, judging from my armory, should I drop some of my mastery/haste to hit reforges to mastery/haste to crit? I'm on about 20% hit and 16% crit.
You likely could, yes.
After raid tonight I did 2M dps on the dummy and was at 12.1k dps. Reforged down to 10.53% hit and 17.96% crit and I was at 12.3k dps. With just the small amount of testing i've done you can see that crit does become better than hit past the special hit cap.

EDIT: Playing with less hit is definitely prone to more RNG and you have to make sure you don't rage starve yourself by using heroic strike too often.
01/22/2011 9:35 PMPosted by Samayael

He is emphasizing crit over hit for the most part, though.
I'll be honest and say I don't agree with a couple of gear choices he made, especially his choice of tier hands over helm. It's forced him to reforge more expertise than he otherwise would have needed. This is of course contingent on he didn't get them from BH, but it doesn't look like he did. It's gained him about 2% crit over me at the cost of 5% hit.
I spent alot of time crunching some numbers. Once you hit the Special Cap, hit falls behind crit. Its somewhere around 1 hit rating = .7 crit Rating, or 1 crit rating = 1.42 hit rating.

Str overtakes them both at 11000 attack power. 1 Str = 3 Crit rating. Once you reach 15000-16000 attack power Crit will be better then Str.
01/23/2011 5:27 AMPosted by Egil
I spent alot of time crunching some numbers. Once you hit the Special Cap, hit falls behind crit. Its somewhere around 1 hit rating = .7 crit Rating, or 1 crit rating = 1.42 hit rating.

Str overtakes them both at 11000 attack power. 1 Str = 3 Crit rating. Once you reach 15000-16000 attack power Crit will be better then Str.
Honestly I don't think the numbers are that simple, mostly due to rage generation and flurry. If you're missing with your offhand such a huge percent then you get that much less rage and crit that much less. Then you do that many fewer yellow hits and it flows into a downward spiral of rage starvation. The gear level isn't quite there that I don't end up in those downward spirals myself now and then but they are much fewer and far between than they were when I was sitting closer to 10% hit.
No there numbers aren't simple at all. It took me 4 hours to come to that conclusion as I factored in everything I could.

Its true, the RNG will hurt you at times. I have 16.2% chance to miss. Sometimes I miss only 5% of th time, sometimes 26% of the time. Theres nothing I can do to my hit rating to get close enough to 0% chance to miss to make that dissapear.

I also spent 2 hours on the practice dummys testing out long fights with hit vs crit. Hit in general on a string of 6 minute fights would have a lower average dps. Crit would have a higher average dps.

I think with the next patch Hit is getting nerfed. Reason being you only need a 10% chance to hit to use Bloodthrist + Raging Blow rotation. Extra hit gives you extra Heroic Strikes, but with the damage of Heroic Strike going down those extra swings will result in less dps.

In then end, yeah... depending on how the RNG wants to favor you, you can see spikes or loss in dps. But when you look at it as precentages and remove random numbers crit will be better.
01/22/2011 6:39 PMPosted by Skyshatter
anyone who stacks crit over hit is stupid..
they will get all crits when they hit.. but wont be hitting much..


You should reconsider your understanding of warrior mechanics.
hit is premium in this tier till around 15-18%. any more then that crit starts to really shine through.
i have 17% hit and with BS 23.5% crit. that used to be very opposite but with a little theorycrafting and some dummy testing i stacked alot more crit. but also keep in mind that you still need a good number of hit, it still is what makes or breaks us as fury.
i do anywhere around 14-15.5k on a dummy atm, with my massive amount of hit around 11-12. so for me... it's very clear.
Hit still has a high premium until 20% if Crit is maintainable at 20%+ with BShout.

Low hit builds just are not as efficient in their damage output, they have high spikes if they stacked crit, but will also starve out, all depending on RNG.

For example, I've done my own testing from 15% Hit with just under 26% Crit to 27% Hit and 15% Crit, 2/3 Incite and 3/3 Deep Wounds against 3/3 Incite and 2/3 Deep Wounds. Kept all Haste/Mastery levels within 50 rating of each other, small discrepancies from the variance crept in, but minimal for a broad overview. All 3min parses, 10 parses per value, Hit%:Crit%.

For me, 15%:26% Had the highest single parse DPS, 15.2k DPS; but it also had the lowest single parse, 9.3k DPS. 3% Miss Rate and 22% miss rate variance. Which wasn't very acceptable to me. Great if the RNG loves me for a fight, terrible if the RNG doesn't. Average did tend towards the higher end more often than the low, 12k DPS, and had near 100% Flurry uptime... which didn't mean very much on average with the high miss rate.

18%:24% had, to me, the best range of numbers, with the most easily repeatable results. 14.6k top end DPS with 11.1k low end DPS. Will probably gravitate back towards this kind of rating set up, with probably even more Crit due to upgrading gear so less Mastery and Haste needs to go into Hit, and/or changing to Cobra Elixirs from Accuracy Elixirs.

24%:21%, which is about where I sit now, has the easiest play. 13.2k top DPS with a 11.7k low DPS. I have to actively try to just slam every button as it lights up to rage starve myself, and with 3/3 Incite I keep Flurry up near 75% of the time, and those attacks rarely miss, generating even more rage for ability usage.

27%:15% ... Yeah didn't work very well. All of the parses were approximate to the lowest of the low hit, high crit parses, ~9.3k DPS with a single high of 10.3k DPS. Low Flurry uptime, low Deep Wounds uptime, it was just bad. Very RNG, just like the high Crit low Hit build, but even then less damage by a huge margin.

EDIT: Forgot to add, did each 10 set testing twice, once with 2/3 DW and 3/3 Incite and once with 3/3 DW and 2/3 Incite. The 3/3 Incite had the best high/low/average parses across the board.

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