Blood Elf Druids

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01/23/2011 5:28 PMPosted by Omacron
Any sufficiently advanced herbalist can use lifeblood. Does that make them a druid?


Plus they can now turn into herbs. It's needs a reagent, but they can.
Actually she had the authority to pledge the entire Blood Knight order to the SSO, which leads me to believe she had that same authority over the order when it comes to internal affairs as well, which is their standards. Blood Elf leadership has probably changed its policies a bit when it comes to mind control and such as Liadrin is still seen preaching at the Sunwell about the Light. If they had been in control of the Blood Knight order like that then Liadrin would still be kicking *&( and taking names.


The Magisters created the Blood Knights and the Blood Knights have no character to represent them in the triumvirate of Silvermoon. Liadrin likely answers to them and I doubt she has any influence to superceed what they have to say about internal affairs or political messages within the city.
1: Make a blood elf mage
2: Train herbalism
3: Profit!
As i stated before blood elves would not work with the Cenarion Circle the defacto druid organization for the main reasons being the night elves would not approve of any arcane themed druidism. and if you say well why dont you call them some thing else? because for the simple fact that botanists on their own could not accomplish the feral and balance abilities with out help.
01/23/2011 5:28 PMPosted by Omacron
Any sufficiently advanced herbalist can use lifeblood. Does that make them a druid?


That's strictly an in-game feature, for the benefit of the player no matter what race or class. Yet I don't think I've seen a human warlock shapeshift because of their professional skills in herbalism.
01/23/2011 5:21 PMPosted by Omacron
Look at it this way, then.
Trolls didn't become "real" druids until they were accepted into the Cenarion Circle.

Do you honestly see blood elf druids either, A, asking to join the Cenarion Circle or B, the circle letting them in (especially if they use arcane magic to force nature's hand)?


Well Broll himself has expressed some concern over the Blood Elf race due to his relationship with Valeera.

Well here's how it could play out;

A, asking to join the Cenarion Circle: The Blood Elves have realized that their promised land was a lie, so they have to make due with Quel'thalas, so they seek the help of Druids from the Cenarion Circle to help them cure their land and to learn Druidism in order to better protect it, the Cenarion Circle would then demand a greater respect of nature, demand that the Blood Elven recruits follow the CC philosophies and that they pledge themselves to the Circle and have the Circle come first, over the Silvermoon magistrate.

From the Cenarion Circles perspective, they could turn a potential enemy into an ally, teaching the Blood Elves a better way to interact with nature and new abilities, also putting nature before magic for some Blood Elves. I'd see it as a win:win situation.
demand that the Blood Elven recruits follow the CC philosophies and that they pledge themselves to the Circle and have the Circle come first, over the Silvermoon magistrate.


And-that-wouldn't happen.

Silvermoon/Blood Elves have always been, their people over all. Having citizens purposely pledge themselves to a secondary order over their own state is just a liability and a security risk. They'd be outcasts, if anything else considered the same traitors as the High Elves. I'd say even the Archdruid Hammul Runetotem isn't expected to put the needs and wishes of the CC over Thunder Bluff or the Horde.
01/23/2011 6:05 PMPosted by Sinsaria
And-that-wouldn't happen.

Silvermoon/Blood Elves have always been, their people over all. Having citizens purposely pledge themselves to a secondary order over their own state is just a liability and a security risk. They'd be outcasts, if anything else considered the same traitors as the High Elves. I'd say even the Archdruid Hammul Runetotem isn't expected to put the needs and wishes of the CC over Thunder Bluff or the Horde.


Ok, maybe not over the magistrate, but they would have to be of great importance.
01/23/2011 6:05 PMPosted by Sinsaria
I'd say even the Archdruid Hammul Runetotem isn't expected to put the needs and wishes of the CC over Thunder Bluff or the Horde.


Well, yeah, he prolly is. The Cenarion Circle is explicitly separate from racial governments. Even when it was just night elves, this was true; the Circle couldn't involve itself in governing the kaldorei, and the kaldorei government had no authority over the Circle. This has only become more true with the induction of first tauren, then trolls and worgen.

The Circle is above, beyond, and separate from the member's nation of origin. By joining the Circle, you've lost that citizenship. You're not a citizen of Darnassus, of Thunder Bluff, of Gilneas. You're a druid of the Circle. And that's all.
I wouldn't necessarily say you have to renounce your original citizenship, but when you work for the Cenarion Circle in an official capacity, you're neutral until relieved of duty. Kind of like the Red Cross/Red Crescent or the UN. So everyone working on Mt. Hyjal are officially neutral until Ragnaros is defeated, and then they return to their nation of origin until called upon again. Otherwise, I'm sure they wouldn't allow Malfurion to even speak to Tyrande if he wasn't part of the government of Darnassus.
Yea, and their marriage would be very awkward.
Why does everyone assume Blood Elves would not join the Cenarion Circle, or that the Cenarion Circle would not accept them in? First off, the CC does not care what race you are. You are a druid whose goal is to heal the land.
We accept all who choose to follow the druidic path, regardless of race, faction, or talent. Occasionally that means we enlist a druid who needs more help than others.

Said by Adrine Towhide in WPL.

There are plenty of examples of Blood Elves "lowering" themselves to the levels of other races, namely the Argent Dawn. In Icecrown there was a healthy rivalry between the Sunreavers and the Silver Covenant, which was mainly due to the High Elves in that order, not anyone else. EPL has a brand new quest chain where a Blood Elf, Worgen, Human, and Tauren shaman of the Earthen Ring all work together to save a Dwarf. Let's not forget about the undead troll they let hitch a ride. Oh, and the part where the Blood Elf flirts with the Goblin girl.

When it boils down, two facts emerge:
1. Blood Elves are trying to save their people. (Just read Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher's gossip text.)
2. Blood Elves have dabbled in nature magic.

Who's saying this has to happen overnight? Blood Elves look into nature as a possible cure. I could see the Tauren teaching the wayward Elves the ways of druidism once they are interested in it.


01/23/2011 4:34 PMPosted by Omacron
Furthermore, Gilnean druids WERE indeed shapeshifting, as explained by the "Lord of his Pack" short story.

Are you sure about this? Because the only reference I remember seeing was somewhere along the lines of "The Night Elf was a druid. Genn recently learned some of his people had been practicing the art in secrecy" or something. It makes no reference to Gilneans shapeshifting.
01/24/2011 2:36 AMPosted by Cariea
There are plenty of examples of Blood Elves "lowering" themselves to the levels of other races, namely the Argent Dawn. In Icecrown there was a healthy rivalry between the Sunreavers and the Silver Covenant, which was mainly due to the High Elves in that order, not anyone else. EPL has a brand new quest chain where a Blood Elf, Worgen, Human, and Tauren shaman of the Earthen Ring all work together to save a Dwarf. Let's not forget about the undead troll they let hitch a ride. Oh, and the part where the Blood Elf flirts with the Goblin girl.

First of all, if people are using Freywinn as an example of what a blood elf "druid" would be... he wouldn't be accepted into the Circle because he's not following the "druidic path", he's manipulating nature with arcane energies. Furthermore, joining the argent crusade isn't "lowering" oneself. The light has apparently been part of high elf culture for a while, but most importantly, it's not a divisive line for them. The whole reason the high elves are high elves (and later became blood elves) is because they REJECTED druidism. They have a specific beef with it.

Are you sure about this? Because the only reference I remember seeing was somewhere along the lines of "The Night Elf was a druid. Genn recently learned some of his people had been practicing the art in secrecy" or something. It makes no reference to Gilneans shapeshifting.

Genn says this right after seeing a night elf druid shapeshift before his eyes. I believe he says something to the effect of "he heard rumors that gilnean druids did so in secret" or something.
Genn thinks about how he has only been exposed recently to the druidism practiced by some agrarian Gilneans. This likely refers to the time of the famine that struck Gilneas sometime after the construction of the Wall.
01/24/2011 8:42 AMPosted by Omacron
The light has apparently been part of high elf culture for a while, but most importantly, it's not a divisive line for them. The whole reason the high elves are high elves (and later became blood elves) is because they REJECTED druidism. They have a specific beef with it.


Actually, for a while there was opposition between the Blood Knights and the Farstriders because the Farstriders did not agree with the Blood Knights methods or their treatment of M'uru, though this may have changed some with Liadrins reform. There's nothing to suggest that the High Elves as a race outright rejected Druidism, they seem to have more of a problem with Malfurion and the law of no Arcane Magic.
01/24/2011 1:20 PMPosted by Seryna
The light has apparently been part of high elf culture for a while, but most importantly, it's not a divisive line for them. The whole reason the high elves are high elves (and later became blood elves) is because they REJECTED druidism. They have a specific beef with it.


Actually, for a while there was opposition between the Blood Knights and the Farstriders because the Farstriders did not agree with the Blood Knights methods or their treatment of M'uru, though this may have changed some with Liadrins reform. There's nothing to suggest that the High Elves as a race outright rejected Druidism, they seem to have more of a problem with Malfurion and the law of no Arcane Magic.



Also, by Omacron's logic, you could say the reason Night Elves are Night Elves is because they REJECTED Arcane magic.

OOPS.

(Hopefully my posts won't be deleted this time)
Also, by Omacron's logic, you could say the reason Night Elves are Night Elves is because they REJECTED Arcane magic.

OOPS.

(Hopefully my posts won't be deleted this time)


But the Highborne continued to practice Arcane Magic, yet they retained their Night Elven form. I believe the High Elves and the Blood Elves stature is due to the loss of a colossal power source such as the Well of Eternity or Nordrassil. The Moonwells also contain Arcane energy.

Deleted?
01/24/2011 1:34 PMPosted by Drailec


Actually, for a while there was opposition between the Blood Knights and the Farstriders because the Farstriders did not agree with the Blood Knights methods or their treatment of M'uru, though this may have changed some with Liadrins reform. There's nothing to suggest that the High Elves as a race outright rejected Druidism, they seem to have more of a problem with Malfurion and the law of no Arcane Magic.



Also, by Omacron's logic, you could say the reason Night Elves are Night Elves is because they REJECTED Arcane magic.

OOPS.

(Hopefully my posts won't be deleted this time)

Except we've known that arcane magic has continued in night elf society even though they rejected it. We've had confirmation of that since Illidan was included in WCIII. By contrast, there's no documentation of druidism having ever caught on with the high elves, probably because Arcane magic is a far older tradition than druidism. Druidism was relatively new when the highborne-who-would-be-high-elves (as opposed to the highborne-who-would-be-shen'dralar) were exiled, and so they couldn't really grab any books on it or get a druid teacher to come with them across the sea, whereas pretty much every part of the old night elf empire practiced arcane magic so it'd be far harder to simply forget it.
01/24/2011 4:02 PMPosted by Omacron
Except we've known that arcane magic has continued in night elf society even though they rejected it. We've had confirmation of that since Illidan was included in WCIII. By contrast, there's no documentation of druidism having ever caught on with the high elves, probably because Arcane magic is a far older tradition than druidism. Druidism was relatively new when the highborne-who-would-be-high-elves (as opposed to the highborne-who-would-be-shen'dralar) were exiled, and so they couldn't really grab any books on it or get a druid teacher to come with them across the sea, whereas pretty much every part of the old night elf empire practiced arcane magic so it'd be far harder to simply forget it.
Actually we did have evidence for high elf druids, but that was all retconned away when Blizzard developed the night elves and had to make them culturally distinct from high elves via arcane vs. drudic magic. High elf druids and high elves "living in harmony with nature" spiel were then thrown on the chopping block.
Oh, definitely. But since it was retconned, you can't very well consider it as "evidence" now can you?

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