Ghostcrawlers article on dungeons

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biggest problem with he article is that on mmo-champ is was right next to the long list of heroic nerfs....


Lay on hands.

You're welcome.


7 minute cooldown (glyphed).

Now what do the priests, druids, and shammies have?
01/20/2011 9:46 PMPosted by Silkysmooth

You're horrible at healing then.

I find it quite hilarious I come back to WoW after /ragequitting the snooze-fest that was Wrath and I see a bunch of whinny people that never ONCE stepped foot in old Raiding UBRS or BWL. One shot mechanics have been around since Vanilla (Living bomb anyone?) and they made DAMN SURE you weren't half-arsed healing/dpsing/tanking that raid.

I have 0 trouble keeping my group alive as long as everyone does their ROLE and is AWARE of their surroundings.


Wow you're so awesome - you can heal your group so long as everyone does everything right and doesn't take any unnecessary damage. Amazing. I suspect the healer you are demeaning in your post is quite capable of healing under those conditions as well.

What you really just said was I have no trouble keeping my group alive when my group keeps itself alive...


Play some Heroics and raids please? I heal aoe dmg I heal tank dmg, I will run out of mana healing idiot dmg. I don't waste mana healing people in fires.

What people forgot since WotLK came out is how to AVOID DAMAGE. Tanks can't, aoe blasts you can't, but a hunter/rogue/mage can't tank or live in a fire. So ya, I do just fine keeping all my groups alive. A good group knows the mechanics or figures them out and helps the healer by not taking dmg.

Your post shows you haven't healed pre WotLK.
This discussion is not about gear and skill, it's about Ghostcrawler's article.

Also
hu·bris
   /ˈhyubrɪs, ˈhu-/ Show Spelled[hyoo-bris, hoo-] Show IPA
–noun
excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

Just say arrogant. This word is being spammed in an attempt to sound intelligent =S

If you read the article, he is explaining ways to play better, not just shove content down your throat and tell you to take it. There's a lot to be said for people actually communicating and working together through the content.

It seems to me that a lot of people missed entirely the purpose of this article: They are listening, things are changing, and they are working to make the game better. Blizzard can only have so much user input before the game goes live. If you're really that concerned about it go become a tester/get on the ptr and provide some solid, substantial feedback. It goes a long ways.

Otherwise, learn that we all don't play games like *YOU*, whoever you are. I've found much success in this patch just by playing with guildies and pugging when necessary. Go back, take a breath, re-read the article, and try some of the suggestions made.

If you can't find any pleasure in the game then you're possibly wasting your time =S You can always come back in a few months when they've nerfed the content into the ground (like they've already started to do with heroics).
01/20/2011 9:30 PMPosted by Jile
See this toon? full resto 346 gear + epics.

I quit heaing. forever.

I got all the gear and healing was still terrible. The difference between a good healer and a bad healer is tiny.

I am worthless, I am powerless, I am stressed.

Yes WotLK was healing spam, but you know what I did MATTERED.


You know...and the risk of getting off topic with this thread, I think the Heroics would not be as bad if healing was made more attractive. I would doubt they would have tone down a thing with it if this where the case. And yes, this is where I agree with the OP, that GC was coming from a hubris where he quite clearly stated that he didn't care if the healing changes drove away players from healing for Cat. For example, he was bound, hell bent and determined in ramming through his bizarre philosphy of having healers care about mana...instead of well, healing. Talk about making what is supposed to be altruistic roll, selfish. But I digress...

...this IMO, has proven to be disaster in design direction. The que times are a proof of this. I do not believe in the history of WoW has healing been made so needlessly unattractive than it is in this expansion. Though feel free dispute that. But I do not remember it being an issue as it is now. And in doing so...Heroic have been made much more painful then they are now for many.

For the record, I personnaly think the Heroics are great as they are. I think the healing rolls needs a lot of work though.
Some of the dumbest complaints ive ever seen. There was nothing wrong with GC's article. Im pretty sure you people just want something to complain about. Heroics are nowhere NEAR as hard as you're making them out to be.

Oh no, you wiped because of a mechanic that was added? Well that sure sucks, how about instead of raging you take note of the mechanic and DEAL WITH IT. Boss has a new move that makes you move out of the way? Then move. Boss has something that has to be interrupted? Interrupt it. Besides, in a few months this game will be easier. When you can get T11 from JP.

Im tired of hearing "It's not the challenge were complaining about" because it is. Thats all it comes down to. You find the mechanic too hard for yourself and therefore want it nerfed.

The first week or so after hitting 85 heroics were very difficult for me. I remember never getting passed the first boss in SFK. But now I breeze through every heroic im in. Whether it be a pug or a guild group. They arent that hard anymore. Can you still wipe? Yeah, if people are truly being stupid. But they arent as hard as your making them out to be.

Im tired now and i'll stop talking, im sure most of this doesnt make sense anyway. Just know it was filled with RAGE.
01/20/2011 9:51 PMPosted by Khaine
Again, heroics are by no means mandatory.


Yes, they are mandatory if you intend to see content. Not hard modes, but any content beyond 5-mans. Raiding was accessible and now isn't. That is a major problem. If there are not multiple PuG raids forming on a nightly basis there is a severe issue with the design.


Raids aren't meant to be open to "everyone just because I want to" You have to be prepared and have the time to dedicate to raids. This isn't WotLK anymore and you don't get free raids full of loot that's easy to obtain. You have to work, figure out, and defeat mechanics in order to do raids, which have FINALLY gone back to the epic raiding of Vanilla. How many people can say they have Atiesh fromm old 40man Naxx? Now can that be said about LK kills? Hell no.

Raids became meaningless and boring in Wrath while in TBC they were somewhat epic and Vanilla was completely awesome.
01/20/2011 9:46 PMPosted by Silkysmooth

You're horrible at healing then.

I find it quite hilarious I come back to WoW after /ragequitting the snooze-fest that was Wrath and I see a bunch of whinny people that never ONCE stepped foot in old Raiding UBRS or BWL. One shot mechanics have been around since Vanilla (Living bomb anyone?) and they made DAMN SURE you weren't half-arsed healing/dpsing/tanking that raid.

I have 0 trouble keeping my group alive as long as everyone does their ROLE and is AWARE of their surroundings.


Wow you're so awesome - you can heal your group so long as everyone does everything right and doesn't take any unnecessary damage. Amazing. I suspect the healer you are demeaning in your post is quite capable of healing under those conditions as well.

What you really just said was I have no trouble keeping my group alive when my group keeps itself alive...


This is, actually, a huge part of it. People need to learn to not get themselves killed. Yes dps, that means actually look up or ask about the fight mechanics before you charge in yelling GO GO GO! Or at least be prepared to learn by wiping a few times.

But as to your point, why should a healer be able to just carry a group that doesn't know how to move out of the fire? If they can then it completely negates any point of the mechanics. Seriously, 99% of wipes are caused by people standing in the wrong spot, attacking the wrong target, or otherwise being unaware of what they are doing. A group consists of 5 people, each one is responsible for the success or failure of the group.

Incidentally, the other 1% of wipes are caused by hilarious, accidental pulls.
Zarhym,

You have no particular reason to believe me, but as someone who is at a reasonably high level in a PR firm, a bit of unsolicited advice: It is not enough to say "we hear you." At some point you need to communicate what you are doing to resolve the problem.

I think the debate between "hardcore" and "casual" is unnecessarily polarized to be sure, and I agree with you when you say you want to see the rhetoric toned down a notch.
That won't happen, however, until you do something to change the underlying dynamic fueling that harsh rhetoric.

GC acknowledged several mistakes in the Cata design philosophy. I concur with his assessment and give him credit for being forthright about those mistakes. The lingering question, though, one which presumably you should answer in short order is: What are you doing about the situation?

For those who would suggest that I dislike Cata, you are wrong. I have four level 85s, including my main (Priest, Doronith), and am working on getting my other healers up to par to run heroics. I enjoy the challenge, but a lot of my guildmates have lost interest and are struggling. Regardless of the reason (incompetence, refusal to learn and read up on Websites, etc.), it is not a good thing when I see my friends logging on less and less. Eventually, they will unsubscribe. That's bad for everyone, including those who are at the top tier of this game because that means less development resources.

I'm not a game developer by any means, but at some point it would behoove you to explain how you plan to help those presently dissatisfied with the game. As I read it, your current solution is to have players wait until they can get the next tier with Justice Points such that they outgear content. I don't think that's such a good idea, least of all because many heroic encounters are not Ilvl checks and instead introduce completely new dynamics.




01/20/2011 9:41 PMPosted by Dokc
tl:dr version - im happy with the game, thank you for youre hard work. however i think that a majority of your player base is not happy when they are limited to only playing 2-4 hours a day (thats a stretch for the casual im sure) and them spending the entirety in one instance


This is exactly why most of my friends have quit. They have around an hour a night to do ALL of the things they'd need to do to prepare for raiding on the weekends (which was two or three hours on a Saturday or Sunday). During WotLK they could do their daily Heroic, even queued as damage dealers, and still fit in a few dailies for gold to use for repairs and gem/enchant upgrades. They earned gear that allowed them to raid without an undue amount of grinding.

This was the shape of the game for TWO YEARS. Now they have found other things to occupy their evening free time and I am left with an empty friend list and nothing to do but level a new goblin.



Yes, they are mandatory if you intend to see content. Not hard modes, but any content beyond 5-mans. Raiding was accessible and now isn't. That is a major problem. If there are not multiple PuG raids forming on a nightly basis there is a severe issue with the design.


Raids aren't meant to be open to "everyone just because I want to" You have to be prepared and have the time to dedicate to raids. This isn't WotLK anymore and you don't get free raids full of loot that's easy to obtain. You have to work, figure out, and defeat mechanics in order to do raids, which have FINALLY gone back to the epic raiding of Vanilla. How many people can say they have Atiesh fromm old 40man Naxx? Now can that be said about LK kills? Hell no.

Raids became meaningless and boring in Wrath while in TBC they were somewhat epic and Vanilla was completely awesome.


You better hope this isn't the case, because your future raid content is going to be lacking when the playerbase you are so hasty to cut off stops footing the bill.

There was a reason why Naxx and Sunwell both made reappearances during Wrath.
As it stands, raiders and such get regulars, heroics, and raids. Casuals, even skilled ones, get a handful of regulars that are not even worth our time. That's the soul crushing part- not that a boss fight is challenging, but that it's easy to invest 2- 3 hours with nothing to show for it and with the knowledge that the next attempt is likely to be the same.

Skilled casuals run heroics just fine. The problem with randoms is finding 5 skilled casuals in a single group. Hit up your former guildmates to run heroics with. Make new friends that have more situational awareness than a g@**%fruit to run with. Put truely bad toons on your ignore list before you leave that failed random so you never see them again. Found your own guild and invite people with a similar mindset and ability to your own to join it.

All of these things can make life easier as a "casual" but not doing any of them gets you nothing more than headaches and repairbills.
THIS!
that is all I have to say.


Wow you're so awesome - you can heal your group so long as everyone does everything right and doesn't take any unnecessary damage. Amazing. I suspect the healer you are demeaning in your post is quite capable of healing under those conditions as well.

What you really just said was I have no trouble keeping my group alive when my group keeps itself alive...


This is, actually, a huge part of it. People need to learn to not get themselves killed. Yes dps, that means actually look up or ask about the fight mechanics before you charge in yelling GO GO GO! Or at least be prepared to learn by wiping a few times.

But as to your point, why should a healer be able to just carry a group that doesn't know how to move out of the fire? If they can then it completely negates any point of the mechanics. Seriously, 99% of wipes are caused by people standing in the wrong spot, attacking the wrong target, or otherwise being unaware of what they are doing. A group consists of 5 people, each one is responsible for the success or failure of the group.

Incidentally, the other 1% of wipes are caused by hilarious, accidental pulls.


I like you friend, you deserve cookies, lots of them.
award justice points in regular mode dungeons

all problems solved
Again, heroics are by no means mandatory.


Yes, they are mandatory if you intend to see content. Not hard modes, but any content beyond 5-mans. Raiding was accessible and now isn't. That is a major problem. If there are not multiple PuG raids forming on a nightly basis there is a severe issue with the design.


I'm confused how people think they can handle Raids when they apparently can't do Heroics.

Isn't this how raiding has always been? Tough fights, expect to wipe numerous times, but keep trying? Communicating and make strategies? These are things people should be learning in Heroics. And considering the expansions only been out about two months, it wouldn't be a good sign that people are already PUG'ing raid content.




This is, actually, a huge part of it. People need to learn to not get themselves killed. Yes dps, that means actually look up or ask about the fight mechanics before you charge in yelling GO GO GO! Or at least be prepared to learn by wiping a few times.

But as to your point, why should a healer be able to just carry a group that doesn't know how to move out of the fire? If they can then it completely negates any point of the mechanics. Seriously, 99% of wipes are caused by people standing in the wrong spot, attacking the wrong target, or otherwise being unaware of what they are doing. A group consists of 5 people, each one is responsible for the success or failure of the group.

Incidentally, the other 1% of wipes are caused by hilarious, accidental pulls.


I like you friend, you deserve cookies, lots of them.


:D
01/20/2011 9:59 PMPosted by Raeln


Raids aren't meant to be open to "everyone just because I want to" You have to be prepared and have the time to dedicate to raids. This isn't WotLK anymore and you don't get free raids full of loot that's easy to obtain. You have to work, figure out, and defeat mechanics in order to do raids, which have FINALLY gone back to the epic raiding of Vanilla. How many people can say they have Atiesh fromm old 40man Naxx? Now can that be said about LK kills? Hell no.

Raids became meaningless and boring in Wrath while in TBC they were somewhat epic and Vanilla was completely awesome.


You better hope this isn't the case, because your future raid content is going to be lacking when the playerbase you are so hasty to cut off stops footing the bill.

There was a reason why Naxx and Sunwell both made reappearances during Wrath.


Ya because Wrath wasn't a pandering expansion at all. Sure it was fun to see Naxx finally, but it lost it's "epicness" when it was easymoded due to Wrath.

Everyone isn't meant to raid, raids do NOT need to be for everyone. If they were for everyone what's the point of Regular and Heroic dungeons, just put one boss in every raid that drops 14 epics and has 14k HP just so it feels good to one shot something.
01/20/2011 10:00 PMPosted by Grymgroeth
As it stands, raiders and such get regulars, heroics, and raids. Casuals, even skilled ones, get a handful of regulars that are not even worth our time. That's the soul crushing part- not that a boss fight is challenging, but that it's easy to invest 2- 3 hours with nothing to show for it and with the knowledge that the next attempt is likely to be the same.

Skilled casuals run heroics just fine. The problem with randoms is finding 5 skilled casuals in a single group. Hit up your former guildmates to run heroics with. Make new friends that have more situational awareness than a g@**%fruit to run with. Put truely bad toons on your ignore list before you leave that failed random so you never see them again. Found your own guild and invite people with a similar mindset and ability to your own to join it.

All of these things can make life easier as a "casual" but not doing any of them gets you nothing more than headaches and repairbills.


To add, I tend to get around this by going to heroics with those I know. Even if it's one. It tends to up the odds of completing a Heroic successfully while having fun.

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