@WarcraftDevs: no hard cap on Valor

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Time for some lfr waterboarding for valor WOOT
10/20/2015 04:03 PMPosted by Hellioning
Ugh.

I can already see everyone expecting everyone to be full 2/2 upgraded the week this system comes out...


Which won't be possible if you read the actual tweet. Nice try though.

10/20/2015 04:26 PMPosted by Annastasi
10/20/2015 03:40 PMPosted by Karinya
Umm... Making LFR drop it but not Normal+ is pretty stupid.


I don't understand this decision. "Forcing" raiders in to LFR didn't work out so well in the past.

Yes, I know, no one is forced. I detest LFR and the underhanded sneaky crap blizz pulls to "entice" raiders to it... I certainly wont' be running it nor will I expect my raid to run it, but many will feel that way.


If you aren't going to grind valor then what exactly is the problem? Oh right. More wannabe hardcore raider butthurt.

10/20/2015 04:50 PMPosted by Brovaries
It's not the current lack of a cap that worries me. It's the potential for the lack of a cap in Legion that's an issue.


Oh don't you worry I'm sure the incessant whining about this will result in it being scrapped much like Mop dailies were.

10/20/2015 05:23 PMPosted by Osmeric
10/20/2015 05:06 PMPosted by Berith
That alone was enough to get me into dungeons and many others. Valor is an incentive to just say "screw it" and unsub.


Hey, could you tell us that story again about how raiders are Blizzard's most loyal customers, unlike those casuals who just quit when they don't get their way?


Implying raiders never quit when they most certainly do and are customers just as much as the casuals are but don't let that get in the way of your mindless hate for raiding.
10/20/2015 05:17 PMPosted by Eroicej
I don't know, which is it? "If you want x, you have to do y. No QQ allowed!" Or "Players shouldn't have to do things they don't want to do just so they can enjoy the things they do want to do!" It seems like what players want changes from minute to minute.

If it's the former, then you'll have to suck it up and farm valor to keep up with your guild. You'll also have to do dailies in Legion, and who knows? Maybe even PVP again.

But if it's the latter, then you're going to have to relax about solo players crafting epics for themselves and putting them in every slot. And tier gear being available through dailies. And not having gear matter so much in PVP.

What's not an option is that you only have to do the things you want to do, but other players also have to do the things you want to do whether they like them or not. That's hypocritical, and it's going to cost us even more subs.


Or, you know, Blizzard could design a system that does not make the people using it miserable. I thought games were designed to be for entertainment, not as a forced labor penitentiary. Silly me.

The ridiculous argument you're trying to make is that either players want to suck it up and every week run 5 LFR, 8 Mythic Dungeons, 7 Heroic dungeons (1 daily), and a weekly quest line ON EACH of their raiding toons (that's what? ~25 hours of stuff per toon per week?), or they want a full set of Mythic gear and 1 million gold to be in their mail box each morning. Yes, your reasoning is THAT nonsensical.

What you don't seem to grasp is that there is no mustache twirling GM or raid leader that is forcing us to do anything. We're forcing ourselves to do this stuff! We do it because WE want to be the best WE can be, so that the next 0.5% wipe is not OUR fault and our conscience is clear. So that we are more capable to carry our own weight or pick up some more slack from our friend who is currently on the bottom of the charts. That's why we push ourselves.

Without caps, what's going to happen is that every raider who feels this way is going to feel pressured into doing EVERY SINGLE type of content to away valor as fast as they can. 10 ilvs is a huge difference and a big deal and something very difficult for responsible raiders to say no to.
10/20/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Vivec
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/656577173902372864

There's no hard weekly cap this time around, but at some point you will run out of Valor-awarding activities.


If you are a raider you will be doing Heroic dungeons daily, the weekly quests for Valor, all of the LFR wings weekly, and the Mythic dungeons weekly.

Is this what you wanted? Will your guild expect you to do all of this? Do you like this? I play a lot, but I dread even thinking about doing all of this just to stay competitive with my raid group.


If you're a "super serious" raider you would do anything possible to gain an advantage and not cry about it.

It's people like you that got professions gutted
10/21/2015 04:42 AMPosted by Dhildozer
If you're a "super serious" raider you would do anything possible to gain an advantage and not cry about it.


Or you know, we can do anything possible to gain an advantage, and point when the design doesn't make sense.

No valor cap, with that many Valor granting activities that don't interest raiders, is just recipe for burnout.

Mists style 5.4.8 Valor worked much better. Would you be against 5.4.8 valor ?

10/21/2015 04:42 AMPosted by Dhildozer
It's people like you that got professions gutted


People like us got Crafted gear to the best its been in the history of the game you mean. It's now the ultimate anti-bad-RNG mechanic in the game. 3 slots of Perfectly itemized gear of your choice, to pad any RNG deficiency in RNG you might have with the raid. I've used it plenty this expansion, filling in slots with some really good gear.
Any guild worth their salt has already downed Mythic Archimonde causing all of this to be irrelevant.

Stop fabricating problems.
10/21/2015 05:17 AMPosted by Gilloch
Any guild worth their salt has already downed Mythic Archimonde causing all of this to be irrelevant.


I don't care where others are on progression, I care about 500k health wipes or 1% wipes though in my own raids.

Also, you're saying only 191 guilds WORLDWIDE are worth their salt ? You're underestimating M Archimonde.
10/21/2015 05:20 AMPosted by Berith
10/21/2015 05:17 AMPosted by Gilloch
Any guild worth their salt has already downed Mythic Archimonde causing all of this to be irrelevant.


I don't care where others are on progression, I care about 500k health wipes or 1% wipes though in my own raids.

Also, you're saying only 191 guilds WORLDWIDE are worth their salt ? You're underestimating M Archimonde.


Cool story: Method cleared Mythic HFC with NO legendary rings. Not one. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

If your guild, having 20+ legendary rings, still can't do it then +2 to your shoes isn't going to help.

10/21/2015 05:17 AMPosted by Gilloch
Stop fabricating problems.
Cool story: Method cleared Mythic HFC with NO legendary rings. Not one. Zero. Zilch. Nada.


Method also locks themselves away in a room for a couple of weeks when a tier releases. Most people can't afford to take a month's vacation and raid 24/7. Then they parallele clear Heroic mode and funnel upgrades to a few mains in the raid, and then do it again for other mains, and again for other mains, using alts.

If your guild, having 20+ legendary rings, still can't do it then +2 to your shoes isn't going to help.


10 ilvls to Trinkets/Weapons sure is going to make a huge difference though.
10/21/2015 05:27 AMPosted by Berith
Cool story: Method cleared Mythic HFC with NO legendary rings. Not one. Zero. Zilch. Nada.


Method also locks themselves away in a room for a couple of weeks when a tier releases. Most people can't afford to take a month's vacation and raid 24/7. Then they parallele clear Heroic mode and funnel upgrades to a few mains in the raid, and then do it again for other mains, and again for other mains, using alts.

If your guild, having 20+ legendary rings, still can't do it then +2 to your shoes isn't going to help.


10 ilvls to Trinkets/Weapons sure is going to make a huge difference though.


Then it's a booby prize at that point and you substantially out gear the encounter.

Which again, makes all of this irrelevant and allows you to progress at your own chosen pace.
10/21/2015 05:29 AMPosted by Gilloch
Then it's a booby prize at that point and you substantially out gear the encounter.

Which again, makes all of this irrelevant and allows you to progress at your own chosen pace.


It's pretty darn relevant to me and my guild whether we kill a boss, or wipe one more night on it.

Have you ever raided ? Wiped hundreds of times on a boss ? Serious question.
10/20/2015 04:11 PMPosted by Healsfrpeels
10/20/2015 04:07 PMPosted by Whitecrow
Once you have upgraded everything in one week the system instantly becomes useless instead of something you work on and with to push you forward over time


In MOP, I hated that we couldn't upgrade like this. It was hard enough trying to pug raids without Ilvl getting in my way all the time. it would be nice to have my upgrades out of the way so I could focus on other things...... like raiding.
There is gear already in the game that you will be able to complete Mythic HFC with. If you need those extra ilevels to get it done, you are doing something wrong.
Is it really running EVERY LFR wing to maximize valor, or is it just the first LFR run of any week that grants valor?
10/21/2015 05:17 AMPosted by Gilloch
Any guild worth their salt has already downed Mythic Archimonde causing all of this to be irrelevant.

Stop fabricating problems.


You being someone who hasn't gotten a single AOTC achievement all expansion long, nor downed a single Mythic boss, I wonder if you should really be judgemental.
10/20/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Vivec
Is this what you wanted?

Yes.

10/20/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Vivec
Will your guild expect you to do all of this?

No.

10/20/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Vivec
Do you like this?

Yes.

I don't feel it necessary to do all of those things every single week to stay competitive. I've barely touched LFR in this expansion and got my legendary ring not long after the first couple of people in the raid group did. I haven't needed to do the dungeon events at all on this character, and I'm not behind in gear compared to my guildmates.

I get the concerns, but if your raid group is pushing you to do all those chores and you don't want to do them, it might be time to find a raid group that better suits your wants and needs.
10/21/2015 08:17 AMPosted by Galateacyc
10/21/2015 05:17 AMPosted by Gilloch
Any guild worth their salt has already downed Mythic Archimonde causing all of this to be irrelevant.

Stop fabricating problems.


You being someone who hasn't gotten a single AOTC achievement all expansion long, nor downed a single Mythic boss, I wonder if you should really be judgemental.


It's not judgmental, it's stating facts.

Valor is optional.

Doesn't take a genius to see that. :)
Hrm I smell an alt.

Anyway like the other thread, small potatoes.
10/21/2015 08:24 AMPosted by Gilloch
It's not judgmental, it's stating facts.

Valor is optional.

Doesn't take a genius to see that. :)


I would, instead, suggest that you don't understand the nature of raiding very well.
Comparing everyone to Method is every bit as silly as expecting everyone to be able to run the 100m in under 10sec because Usain Bolt can do it.

Method was comprised of the best players in the world raiding 24/7 for a month on live, and pretty much every second it was available on PTR. Very few people are competing in that manner. Method had 472 wipes on Mythic Archimonde for example (and that's significantly less than the other top guilds). Assuming each attempt averages 5 minutes, then that's 2,360min = ~40 hours on this boss alone. That alone is almost 2 months worth of scheduled raids for this toon's guild. Couple that with a skill, experience, and starting gear disadvantage from last tier, and it's obvious why most people's progression is not on par with theirs.

For the rest of us, the challenge is stuff like guild rank on server, and downing the bosses themselves (you seem to SERIOUSLY underestimate the difficulty of Mythic bosses and the coordination they require, if you think a mere few ilvs "trivializes" anything. A random person in 800ilv gear would still be a liability on mythic fights). That's why there are various kinds of raiding guilds from: casual, heroic, semi-hardcore, hardcore, and world first types.

They all have different requirement on players they accept. Starting from hardcore on up, raid spots are awarded based on performance, and the amount of expected/required raid preparation increases substantially. People who have been with the guild for years are ditched for any new upstart that pulls better numbers. It's not an environment everyone finds enjoyable.

As a result, amongst the lesser serious guilds that enjoy raiding with friends in an environment where individual raiders are not too worried about losing their spot if their dps is not 90th percentile or they cause 2 or 3 wipes, do not compete with the guilds above them. The challenge is beating the bosses themselves (irrespective of when everyone else does it), measuring themselves against other guilds with roughly the same raiding schedule, and to personally do the best they can do.

These goals of progressing the best you can, is in no way altered because Method exists. The desire to play at the best level you can is no less real. That means taking every advantage available - and 10ilvs is a huge bonus.

This means it's not only the World First-ers and the hardcore guilds that find this alluring. A VP design with no caps is Blizzard openly saying: "to continue to trying doing your best, the new expectation is that you put in 25-40 hours per week per toon" which is something I think is unreasonable and unhealthy game design. Hence I'm voicing my concerns.
Hello!

We’ve just updated our Patch 6.2.3 preview blog post with the following details:

  • Upgrading an item costs 250 Valor for +5 item levels.
  • Hellfire Citadel items, Dungeon loot, Baleful items, and crafted items can each be upgraded twice, costing a total of 500 Valor for +10 item levels.
  • There is no hard weekly cap on Valor, but the sources of Valor are inherently not infinitely repeatable.
  • Valor can be earned in the following ways:
    • Mythic Dungeon (Valor awarded with dungeon completion, once per dungeon per week) – 300 Valor Points
    • Complete the weekly Event quest from Seer Kazal (Pet Battle Event excluded) – 500 Valor Points
    • Heroic Dungeon (complete your first random Heroic of the day) – 100 Valor Points
    • Raid Finder wing (once per week per wing) – 150 Valor Points for Hellfire Citadel wings, 75 Valor Points for Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry wings


If you have any further questions on this, feel free to ask them here.
Please note: On the current PTR, Mythic Dungeons are awarding only 150 Valor Points. This will be fixed to the intended value of 300.

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