Lore reason for no Metamorphosis in Legion?

Warlock
Is there going to be anything in-game that will explain it away.

Like every Demonology Warlock wakes up in the morning and there is an escaped Demon Hunter in their room threatening to kill them if they ever use it again?

Or will we get whisked away by the Council of the Black Harvest and threatened to be Banished for all eternity like our mentor Kanrethad Ebonlocke?

Warlocks have a pretty decent reason for having access to Metamorphosis and other Demonology skills right now since we learned it from research done at the Black Temple, so it'd be nice to at least get a lore reason why we are using one of our most defining abilities.
Since warlocks are all about dancing around that line that divides the acceptable / forbidden magic, perhaps that will be a way it could be used for an explanation. Maybe it won't be as sudden as a demon hunter threatening them in a room, but some sort of altercation involving them, perhaps the Legion's arrival could have impacted this as well.
11/07/2015 11:28 PMPosted by Alrei
Since warlocks are all about dancing around that line that divides the acceptable / forbidden magic, perhaps that will be a way it could be used for an explanation. Maybe it won't be as sudden as a demon hunter threatening them in a room, but some sort of altercation involving them, perhaps the Legion's arrival could have impacted this as well.


*savagely rips demonology spec from your class for now and legion+*

you.do.not.deserve.demonology.if.you.don't.support.us.keeping.meta.
11/07/2015 11:35 PMPosted by Kelgash
*savagely rips demonology spec from your class for now and legion+*

you.do.not.deserve.demonology.if.you.don't.support.us.keeping.meta.


ok
11/07/2015 11:19 PMPosted by Nariel
Or will we get whisked away by the Council of the Black Harvest and threatened to be Banished for all eternity like our mentor Kanrethad Ebonlocke?


That's the idea I thought after seeing Ritssyn is going to be with us.
I'm thinking maybe we absorb the power of a fragment of the dark star (or some such) to learn more about demonic summoning (such as how to command an army of demons all at once) and in exchange give up the ability to channel chaos energy through our bodies. Seems like an easy explanation they could just throw in.
I actually think the new Demonology sounds -much- cooler than what they've been for several expansions now. Metamorphosis was always a Demon Hunter ability and I've always thought it was kind of clunky for Demonology. Demonology should be about summoning hordes of demons under your control to kill all your enemies for you. That sounds fun.
I imagine it works like this:

We discover Metamorphosis is making us lose ourselves to the Legion.
We are better than them, we will not fall into a cesspit just for a slight power up.

Thus, we will discard this trap laid by Kanrethad, perhaps Ritssyn will tell us how Meta was a way for the Legion to dominate us, perhaps Kanrethad always was Legion, and in a insulting way he made us all look like mooks wanting his transformation.

Thus, we will stop using his technique, and we will strike the very Legion that would have us as their dupes.
11/08/2015 07:41 AMPosted by Janelynn
I imagine it works like this:

We discover Metamorphosis is making us lose ourselves to the Legion.
We are better than them, we will not fall into a cesspit just for a slight power up.

Thus, we will discard this trap laid by Kanrethad, perhaps Ritssyn will tell us how Meta was a way for the Legion to dominate us, perhaps Kanrethad always was Legion, and in a insulting way he made us all look like mooks wanting his transformation.

Thus, we will stop using his technique, and we will strike the very Legion that would have us as their dupes.


pretty valid/solid for me

come to think of it - he's the one that introduced the techniques of meta to other warlocks. yet being the first meta user, he's the one ended up losing himself for good.

perhaps it has been a trap all along - carefully laid down to create more agents for the legion.

on a more practical note: i think its best that we reflect upon how/what demonology is since conception. its fairly clear that having access to a specific combat pet and pet synergy/bonuses is a clear sign of pet-centric user. with warlocks being generalized as a pet class - it makes sense to have a specific spec that enhances their link with pets.

of course, over years of development and experiment on Metamorphosis does yield good results and a cult following. it would be a good choice to at least remain some of that gameplay, but that is likely going to cost too much time for development/balancing
Lore reason for no Metamorphosis in Legion?

11/07/2015 11:19 PMPosted by Nariel
Is there going to be anything in-game that will explain it away.

Is there a Lore reason that explains why warlocks forgot Fel Flame?

If warlocks can forget simple spells like Fel Flame, I imagine it's pretty easy for them to forget a complicated Metamorphosis spell.
Its just a sad / frustrating situation all around. The reason why Blizz went the direction of Meta to begin with was due to feedback from players that they did not like their pets doing all the damage and overshadowing the warlock. Mass summoner was tested during MoP alpha and was found to be fun in concept but in execution lead back to the same frustration of decreased perceived player agency and difficulty with controlling the pets resultant from AI limitations.

I assume Blizz believes they have those issues figured out now so they'll try the mass summoner route, but until I see it in action I'll remain skeptical. The thing is, the idea of powering up *does work* mechanically, just Blizzard never brought the Meta-Demonology paradigm fully out of MoP Beta IMO and thus had a number of important polishing issues that went unaddressed. I can only speculate as to why that polishing never occurred; perhaps they've known DHs were going to be a part of Legion for a while now and fully embracing Meta-Demo was pointless or they lacked a dev like Xelnath with a vision for the spec or whatever. Either way I am interested as to how they'll treat that same paradigm with SPriests now that they are unhindered by the design restrictions that DHs imposed on a Meta-centric Demonology.
The more we use metamorphosis, the more our bodies alter to resemble demons biologically.

We have been tricked into learning metamorphosis, so that Kanrethad Ebonlocke can control us as if we were the very demons we ourselves sought to master and control.

A warlock, who enslaves and controls other demon-infused warlocks, would be a force to rival the legion itself.

This is why we can't have Metamorphosis. It is a double-edged sword...a curse...a weakness hidden in the guise of strength. To succumb to Metamorphosis is to sell your soul to Kanrethad.

Better to enslave demons than to become an enslaved demon.
i keep seeing how illidan taught warlocks how to meta. never heard of it until recenlty. where can i read the story/lore of this?
In the green fire quest line you find out that Kanrethad Ebonlock, a warlock NPC and member of the cross-factional warlock group "The Black Harvest," was there when Illidan was defeated at the Black Temple and basically figured out how to reverse engineer that ability. So while one could argue that we didn't technically (IMO) have the exact same ability that DHs do, Kanrethan still figured out the methodology / mechanics and came up with his own version. It was called the same thing and conflicted with Blizz's opinion of how we should have fun, so it was chopped.

Like every Demonology Warlock wakes up in the morning and there is an escaped Demon Hunter in their room threatening to kill them if they ever use it again?


I'd actually like this because it'd be freaking hilarious.
Ridiculous to lose meta. We learned Meta from Illidan. We had an entire quest chain built around the story of Kanrethad becoming a demon. There is even an in game book that talks about Warlocks using meta. And what about those Demo Warlocks on the first boss in HFC?

They become demons using meta... This seems like a rushed decision that was not well thought out, otherwise why would THEY be sticking metamorphed demo locks in as adds on the first boss of the last tier (HFC) of their most recent expac? Blizz is also blatantly ignoring lore and the players who have played Demo locks since before they were cool in 3.3.

If Warlocks need a re-skinned meta form to share it with DH, fine. Taking it completely away? Ludicrous.
11/08/2015 07:20 PMPosted by Inajiff
i keep seeing how illidan taught warlocks how to meta. never heard of it until recenlty. where can i read the story/lore of this?


seeing how this misleading information keeps circling around, here's some information to clear things up

references:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Kanrethad
http://www.wowhead.com/item=83078/legacy-of-the-masters-part-1

it was Kanrethad Ebonlocke, a human warlock who 'discovered' the secrets of metamorphosis - which he in turns shared with Council of the Black Harvest.

now, its a matter of speculation whether does his 'discovery' was by accident, coincidence or a carefully laid trap.
Yeah Kanrethad studied Illidan's abilities as he wanted to know how it was that Illidan managed to control so many demons while retaining his autonomy (sort of) from the Legion.

While he was doing that other members of the Black Harvest were off researching the Twilight's Hammer, Ragnaros and Deathwing for a deeper understanding of the different powers.

The warlocks of the Black Harvest sought to draw inspiration from these sources as they felt that their own powers were lacking the kick of these various aspects.
Personally, I hope not.

Every reason so far I've seen people mill through have been ham-fisted. Really, just ignoring it is the most graceful thing they can do at this point.

Still, it's a business more than anything. Even if it wasn't my favorite spec getting gutted, lore being directed by a financial department would show a gross lack of interest in their own world.
Simple reason is demo is about controlling demons not becoming one. They shouldn't have ever had that ability.

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