what is split raiding?

General Discussion
Hi, can somebody define the concept of "split raiding" why is bad and should be stopped?

Never heard of this term and somebody at blizzcon mentioned this.

Thank you!
So, you have a Mythic roster of 20 players with 20 characters.

Each of those players are expected to have about 5-15 alts, equally geared out as those 20 mains that are on the Mythic roster.

The week before Mythic releases, each of those 20 players are expected to run separate raids for a small group of those 20 mains on their alts.

For example, the first raid would be made up of 3 mains and 17-27 alts (for more gear to drop). The next, 4 mains and 16-26 alts.

All drops that the mains could use would be funneled to them. They'd have zero competition. The alts would get the scraps.

They would do these runs multiple times until all of the mains had been given funneled runs. Then, on the Tuesday that Mythic releases, they'd do it all again one last time before entering Mythic.

That's what split runs are.
That sounds pretty awful to be honest.
11/08/2015 12:21 AMPosted by Karodin
So, you have a Mythic roster of 20 players with 20 characters.

Each of those players are expected to have about 5-15 alts, equally geared out as those 20 mains that are on the Mythic roster.

The week before Mythic releases, each of those 20 players are expected to run separate raids for a small group of those 20 mains on their alts.

For example, the first raid would be made up of 3 mains and 17-27 alts (for more gear to drop). The next, 4 mains and 16-26 alts.

All drops that the mains could use would be funneled to them. They'd have zero competition. The alts would get the scraps.

They would do these runs multiple times until all of the mains had been given funneled runs. Then, on the Tuesday that Mythic releases, they'd do it all again one last time before entering Mythic.

That's what split runs are.


Wow! That sounds about as fun as hang glinding into a volcano.
11/08/2015 12:21 AMPosted by Karodin
So, you have a Mythic roster of 20 players with 20 characters.

Each of those players are expected to have about 5-15 alts, equally geared out as those 20 mains that are on the Mythic roster.

The week before Mythic releases, each of those 20 players are expected to run separate raids for a small group of those 20 mains on their alts.

For example, the first raid would be made up of 3 mains and 17-27 alts (for more gear to drop). The next, 4 mains and 16-26 alts.

All drops that the mains could use would be funneled to them. They'd have zero competition. The alts would get the scraps.

They would do these runs multiple times until all of the mains had been given funneled runs. Then, on the Tuesday that Mythic releases, they'd do it all again one last time before entering Mythic.

That's what split runs are.


http://i.imgur.com/HcH5sIO.png
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?
11/08/2015 12:12 AMPosted by Ultimecia
Hi, can somebody define the concept of "split raiding" why is bad and should be stopped?

Never heard of this term and somebody at blizzcon mentioned this.

Thank you!


Many arguments against it claim that it involved too much RNG and create a unbalanced starting point for the world first race. A lucky char with 4 pieces will have greater advantage than someone who is unlucky and only get 3 pieces after the 1st week.
11/08/2015 12:30 AMPosted by Solder
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?


They don't, it's generally just the ones in the world first race.
11/08/2015 12:30 AMPosted by Solder
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?


Afaik, only the top 10 or so world guilds do this. A few more may do it for server first, but 99% of mythic guilds don't do this.
that which has no life
11/08/2015 12:30 AMPosted by Solder
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?


A normal mythic guild wouldn't because a normal mythic guild would be progressing through heroic first for weeks if not months.

I am pretty sure only the bragging rights type of guilds do this.

I also don't know why blizzard wants to stop this - really makes me think of a very small group of people wanting to dictate how everyone else plays on here again.
11/08/2015 12:33 AMPosted by Clalina
11/08/2015 12:30 AMPosted by Solder
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?


Afaik, only the top 10 or so world guilds do this. A few more may do it for server first, but 99% of mythic guilds don't do this.
Yeah, fluff that

To put it into perspective, my progression ended up being better than some of my friends. They split farmed, we didn't. Top world guilds should do it and no one else because usually the tryharding doesn't pay off.
Yeah, this is a problem for only the World First race, but it is a problem. When you want to be the best, you do what it takes to be the best - and this is what it takes. But is it really fair? Does it create true competition? At the end of the day, the only guilds who can do this are the ones who can afford to spend that kind of time on the World First race.

So either you know you'll be in the race, so you take off those two weeks of work/school to focus on raiding... or your guild forfeits the World First race, and you never even get to really compete. This means that guilds made up of amazing raiders but who are newly formed or made up of people who cannot afford this kind of time do not get to truly compete. It also leads to early burnout. We saw World First contenders lose people in their main roster right at the finish line - Was it because of these Split Runs? I cannot say, but I doubt they helped.
11/08/2015 12:37 AMPosted by Dis
11/08/2015 12:30 AMPosted by Solder
That's lunatic insanity. I could understand doing it if you're, like, the progression guild on your server, going for competitive bragging silliness... But why the hell would a normal mythic guild even bother?


A normal mythic guild wouldn't because a normal mythic guild would be progressing through heroic first for weeks if not months.

I am pretty sure only the bragging rights type of guilds do this.

I also don't know why blizzard wants to stop this - really makes me think of a very small group of people wanting to dictate how everyone else plays on here again.


They want to stop it because it isn't enjoyable for anyone involved but it is also necessary to truly compete at the top end. It is along the same lines of why you can't drink 10 different elixirs at once anymore nor are there powerful buffs in dungeons you can get through mind control to help for raid fights.

They probably aren't going to do anything, because any solution will have a lot of collateral damage, but that doesn't mean they like the situation.
11/08/2015 12:37 AMPosted by Dis
I also don't know why blizzard wants to stop this - really makes me think of a very small group of people wanting to dictate how everyone else plays on here again.


because it is an unhealthy advantage,

i can understand pouring multiple hours to brute force a boss, because its a strategic maneuver, because some players have a slower or faster time in grasping a mechanic.

but having to play alts just to feed the mains gear is something that should be reduced/minimised.

it should be about whoever perfects the execution to down the boss, not who did 10 split runs in a week.

then again, from this perspective, they have to make tier + trinkets not be so overwhelming to the borderline of overpowered, that would force guilds to do this in the first place, especially in a raid/loot lock environment.

if its world drops, go nuts.. its fair game.
11/08/2015 12:48 AMPosted by Asthas
11/08/2015 12:37 AMPosted by Dis
...

A normal mythic guild wouldn't because a normal mythic guild would be progressing through heroic first for weeks if not months.

I am pretty sure only the bragging rights type of guilds do this.

I also don't know why blizzard wants to stop this - really makes me think of a very small group of people wanting to dictate how everyone else plays on here again.


They want to stop it because it isn't enjoyable for anyone involved but it is also necessary to truly compete at the top end. It is along the same lines of why you can't drink 10 different elixirs at once anymore nor are there powerful buffs in dungeons you can get through mind control to help for raid fights.

They probably aren't going to do anything, because any solution will have a lot of collateral damage, but that doesn't mean they like the situation.


At the start of a new expansion a lot of people LIKE playing a lot, this is only a one week thing for the most and by the time the players have run that raid through that many times they know it better and it helps them progress later.

I don't agree with removing choices because a few people say they want to compete but are too lazy to do what it takes to do so effectively.
11/08/2015 12:49 AMPosted by Bluesquare
11/08/2015 12:37 AMPosted by Dis
I also don't know why blizzard wants to stop this - really makes me think of a very small group of people wanting to dictate how everyone else plays on here again.


because it is an unhealthy advantage,

i can understand pouring multiple hours to brute force a boss, because its a strategic maneuver, because some players have a slower or faster time in grasping a mechanic.

but having to play alts just to feed the mains gear is something that should be reduced/minimised.

it should be about whoever perfects the execution to down the boss, not who did 10 split runs in a week.

then again, from this perspective, they have to make tier + trinkets not be so overwhelming to the borderline of overpowered, that would force guilds to do this in the first place, especially in a raid/loot lock environment.

if its world drops, go nuts.. its fair game.


Yes and there will be others that think if they are willing to work harder they SHOULD have an advantage. Just because a certain group thinks things should work a certain way doesn't mean they should be able to get choices taken away from others if they want to play a certain way.
11/08/2015 12:42 AMPosted by Karodin
Yeah, this is a problem for only the World First race, but it is a problem. When you want to be the best, you do what it takes to be the best - and this is what it takes. But is it really fair? Does it create true competition? At the end of the day, the only guilds who can do this are the ones who can afford to spend that kind of time on the World First race.

So either you know you'll be in the race, so you take off those two weeks of work/school to focus on raiding... or your guild forfeits the World First race, and you never even get to really compete. This means that guilds made up of amazing raiders but who are newly formed or made up of people who cannot afford this kind of time do not get to truly compete. It also leads to early burnout. We saw World First contenders lose people in their main roster right at the finish line - Was it because of these Split Runs? I cannot say, but I doubt they helped.


Who cares if the world first race is "fair" or not? If it wasn't for split runs, people would just point at something else that makes it "not fair". Like having a B Team testing out strategies at the same time and feeding results to the main team, or having all the main raiders with 10 alts fully geared so they can class stack as needed. There's always going to be something.

I don't give a damn about the world first race, and it constantly amazes me how many armchair quarterbacks spend more time and attention on what other people do the first 2 weeks of a tier than on what they themselves are doing in the game.

Blizzard shouldn't change a damn thing to "fix" this non-existent problem.
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They want to stop it because it isn't enjoyable for anyone involved but it is also necessary to truly compete at the top end. It is along the same lines of why you can't drink 10 different elixirs at once anymore nor are there powerful buffs in dungeons you can get through mind control to help for raid fights.

They probably aren't going to do anything, because any solution will have a lot of collateral damage, but that doesn't mean they like the situation.


At the start of a new expansion a lot of people LIKE playing a lot, this is only a one week thing for the most and by the time the players have run that raid through that many times they know it better and it helps them progress later.

I don't agree with removing choices because a few people say they want to compete but are too lazy to do what it takes to do so effectively.


I'm not sure you'd find a single top end guild that would tell you they like doing the split raiding thing, at least to the degree it has evolved to over the years.

Split raiding isn't a choice for world first competitors. It is an assumption.

Even if you couldn't funnel gear with split raiding, said raids could run heroic over and over again for practice if they wished to, and would still run at least a couple raids to get alts to swap in for class stacking. But they typically already had quite a bit of practice from PTR/Beta and they could just purposefully wipe on bosses to get more practice (this happens a lot on PTR/Beta).

You can call it removing choices if you'd like, but like I said, I'm pretty sure it is a choice no one would miss. People may have fond, nostalgic memories of drinking 10 elixirs after every wipe and going back to...UBRS or LBRS, I forget which, to get the resist buff, but you'd have difficulty finding someone saying they want to go back to all that busywork between wipes. They've frequently taken steps to reduce the amount of overhead required to optimally raid but split raiding has arisen as an unfortunate consequence of the flexible way raid locks work now. It doesn't outweigh the benefits of the current raid lock system by a long shot, but it is unfortunate.
11/08/2015 01:10 AMPosted by Tewa
Who cares if the world first race is "fair" or not? If it wasn't for split runs, people would just point at something else that makes it "not fair". Like having a B Team testing out strategies at the same time and feeding results to the main team, or having all the main raiders with 10 alts fully geared so they can class stack as needed. There's always going to be something.

I don't give a damn about the world first race, and it constantly amazes me how many armchair quarterbacks spend more time and attention on what other people do the first 2 weeks of a tier than on what they themselves are doing in the game.

Blizzard shouldn't change a damn thing to "fix" this non-existent problem.


Who cares? Well, the current World First champs for starters.

One of the reasons Method - and since you said you don't give a fk about this stuff, I guess I should tell you that Method are the current champs - broke up was because of the lack of competition. Instead of the race feeling like a true competition, they often felt like they were alone at the front of the pack. Is it because they are just THAT much better than everybody else? Quite possibly. But it may also be because of this system.

Who else cares? Other World First raiders. Just watch interviews with any of the high end raiders over the expansion, and NOBODY speaks highly of Split Raiding. It wears them out; it burns them out on a brand new raid tier. Can you imagine? A raid tier just dropped 3 weeks ago, and you're already sick of it? That's what these guys go through.

"Well, boohoo, they don't have to do it!" you may say.

Well, that's true. I also don't have to play WoW, but I do it because I enjoy it. And some people enjoy winning - or, in this case, getting World/Server First. That doesn't mean that they have to enjoy the road to get there.

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