RIP Fistweaving & Gladiator Stance

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I'm kind of just at a loss for real, coherent words. Overall I'm just angry.

You constrained and crippled fistweaving throughout this expac. You removed our smart heals, you gave us a 1.5 global cooldown, you gimped our SP:AP conversion, you took away our AoE on BoK, and any time Windwalker saw nerfs, we were nerfed too.

You could've tried. We could've been given the same mechanic of targeting our heals, I mean, we have Renewing Mists, and all these other new targeted heals that last over several seconds. Why not just have moved Emenince to Mastery as well? Targeted heals also mark them for Eminence, plus the little healing they're getting from the mist gusts.

Three years. I picked up this monk -three- years ago because I fell in love with fistweaving. I'll be honest, she was my first max level character too. All I know is fistweaving.

Now you're telling me that either I play a ranged-hots healer when I have a max level RShaman now, or I should go play disc priest to fulfill my fantasy of being an active healer, contributing to my raid by my damage?

<Edited to remove inappropriate language>
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore

Fistweaving in particular ended up being used mostly as a mana management tool to support Serpent Stance, instead of a damage/heal hybrid, which didn’t support its fantasy well.


There is a good reason for this. Pure fistweaving as it stands now will do less dps and less healing than a decent tank of the same ilvl. If the dps and healing was comparable to a tanks then it would be used more.
semi-easy fix: fist-weaving being a 4th spec? Druids have 4...
No it's not. All they did to make that "spec" was change one ability.


2 abilites

Battle stance to glad, and shield block to shield charge. That all that is needed. Stop trying to defend blizzards laziness when it comes to balancing gladiator, they have the stance itself to work around without touching prot, like they did in 6.2 with the mastery buff. Considering they didn't even go into detail behind why glad stance is getting removed beyond 'its hard to balance cause we don't want to'
dam that was very disappointing i have played glad since the start of warlords and i have love it how do

they call it "the fantasy" of going to battle with shield and a sword without being a tank was awesome and

now it's gone , i was actually looking forward to the prot artifact i don't like the drama that comes from the

tank spec but i always liked the rotation and now after getting used to that playstyle i'm forced to tank or be

bored arms or fury , my 4 year old main seems to be going to be an alt now
11/11/2015 03:32 PMPosted by Thuli
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore

Fistweaving in particular ended up being used mostly as a mana management tool to support Serpent Stance, instead of a damage/heal hybrid, which didn’t support its fantasy well.


There is a good reason for this. Pure fistweaving as it stands now will do less dps and less healing than a decent tank of the same ilvl. If the dps and healing was comparable to a tanks then it would be used more.


Which of course leads more fears to the idea that they want Discipline to go in that direction when they've proven in the past they're incapable of balancing such a thing.
11/11/2015 03:34 PMPosted by Deádwing
dam that was very disappointing i have played glad since the start of warlords and i have love it how do

they call it "the fantasy" of going to battle with shield and a sword without being a tank was awesome and

now it's gone , i was actually looking forward to the prot artifact i don't like the drama that comes from the

tank spec but i always liked the rotation and now after getting used to that playstyle i'm forced to tank or be

bored arms or fury , my 4 year old main seems to be going to be an alt now


Its very hypocritical of blizzard to say that the main fantasy of a warrior is charging into battle with a sword and shield, then turn around and say we are removing a part of that fantasy. Doesn't make any god damn sense
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore
Fistweaving (and Gladiator Stance) will not be joining us in Legion.

We love the fantasy that each of those “subspecs” promise, but leaving them as subspecs has proven to be problematic, making us unable to properly deliver on their fantasy.
If our class spec doesn't deliver on their fantasy in thirty minutes or less, do we get a re-roll for free? I don't fantasize about RNG on Mastery, mr. fire kitteh...please tell them not to deliver that ಠ_ಠ
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore
instead of a damage/heal hybrid


That's EXACTLY how I played my monk in MoP before you segregated fistweaving into its own stance and turned the mistweaving identity into "A worse resto druid"
11/11/2015 03:27 PMPosted by Wraak
but Gladiator was very popular.


It died after highmaul
More fun nerfs. Nothing's changed since WoD.
HATED FISTWEAVING. THESE CHANGES ARE FANTASTIC! SUCK IT NERD BABIES.
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore
Fistweaving (and Gladiator Stance) will not be joining us in Legion.

We love the fantasy that each of those “subspecs” promise, but leaving them as subspecs has proven to be problematic, making us unable to properly deliver on their fantasy. Trying to support two different playstyles within one spec restricts how much we can focus and bring out the strengths of either of them. We still love both of their concepts, however, and will look for opportunities to bring them back in the future.

Fistweaving in particular ended up being used mostly as a mana management tool to support Serpent Stance, instead of a damage/heal hybrid, which didn’t support its fantasy well. While we recognize that the initial goal for Mistweaver Monk -- combining a ranged healer with a melee healing style -- attracted some people to the class, quite a few things have changed since then. Most importantly, there’s been a huge shift away from smart heals in Warlords, which is continuing in Legion.

Mistweaver gameplay for most players was centered around their ranged healing spells, and our focus for the spec in 7.0 consists of reinforcing their unique array of healing tools and adding talents and artifact powers that support this style.


Well then you just removed two of the most fun things in this game. I realize they were probably a nightmare to balance, that's understandable. But also understand how fun they were as a result. The idea of doing something you're almost not supposed to be doing and excelling at it is fun gameplay in itself.

As someone who mostly plays DPS and can't find it within myself to main a healer or a tank, those playstyles offered options where I could compromise and do both. Fistweaving especially was the only reason I would ever consider playing a MW at all, and often times was the most fun thing about it.

Going about my dailies as a healer was insanely fun. Backflip kicks 3 times in a row, also insanely fun. Beating DPS in LFR as a healer - insanely fun. (only because I was overgeared though)

Gladiator stance offered another playstyle that was just too awesome. I didn't like the gameplay of it personally but that's because the rotation looks like it was meant for someone with advanced schizophrenia. Maybe if you removed Heroic Strike for one so you don't have to press two things at once at all times, that would help. Anyway that was the ideal fantasy of doing damage with a shield, all purely physical and therefore purely badass. I'm very, VERY sad to see it go. More so than fistweaving even.

Tis a sad day today. But all that means for me is that I won't be touching monks or warriors this expansion, I guess. Not only are their artifacts extremely lackluster but now their gameplay is botched too. Bleh.

Bad decisions. Bad decisions all around in my opinion. With shaman as well. But it's something I've come to expect to be honest. At least warlock and DK are looking great so there's that.
Removing Gladiator stance is completely unacceptable. I would bring up the fact that Druids have been enjoying a 4th spec for many years but you are no doubt aware of that. It is hugely disappointing that you delivered us Gladiator with so much excitement, reeled it back into non-existence with knee-jerk nerfs and then abandoned it throughout the remainder of WoD as some obscure, step-child of a spec.

Many Warriors enjoyed the play-style of Gladiator. Gladiator not seeing enough mileage is a function of your choices, NOT ours.

How is the spec beyond saving? And I cant help but wonder why it the designers gave up on it SO quickly. Surely you can muster some elegant solution, like giving it more of a life of it's own by making it a separate spec. Or fine tuning the numbers some how. You guys have overcome so many different problems over the course of wow, I cant help but think that this is just laziness..
11/11/2015 02:36 PMPosted by Lore
Fistweaving (and Gladiator Stance) will not be joining us in Legion.


So one question I have regarding this, will Mistweavers still be classified as melee for encounter mechanics? This has been one of the things that really set them apart for me, when compared to other healers, that it wasn't a risk to other players for you to be in melee range.
11/11/2015 03:32 PMPosted by Denona
No it's not. All they did to make that "spec" was change one ability.


2 abilites

Battle stance to glad, and shield block to shield charge. That all that is needed. Stop trying to defend blizzards laziness when it comes to balancing gladiator, they have the stance itself to work around without touching prot, like they did in 6.2 with the mastery buff. Considering they didn't even go into detail behind why glad stance is getting removed beyond 'its hard to balance cause we don't want to'


The other thing about that is that Protection Warriors had no use for Battle Stance at all, so why Blizzard couldn't do that?
I still want someone to explain to me how removing a play style that has existed since the class was created, as well as removing a unique resource to manage makes a class more unique compared to others, as well as more fun to play.
11/11/2015 03:37 PMPosted by Demues
11/11/2015 03:27 PMPosted by Wraak
but Gladiator was very popular.


It died after highmaul
lol what?? in your server maybe
Right now the devs doing a cost benefit analysis on sub loses vs the resources it will cost them to address the concerns here.

It's the same process they go through every time they run into an issue and receive negative feedback. Factions hubs for example were decided against because the resource cost was high and the likelyhood of mass cancellations over it was low. Flying was decided the other way because resource requirements were low and cancellations were already happening.

It is not "gee, our players are upset, how do we fix this." It's more like "we could fix this, but it will take X amount of time and resources, so is it worth it?"

They're a business operating to make a profit, to think this isn't how it is is simply naive.
Rip in peace, my poor warrior :(

Now I have to level a new skinner... gd it.

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