Looking for Dungeon Queues...

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When a healer does a fantastic job healing a run, nobody in the run dies, and at the end of the run a player goes into a big rant about what a terrible freakin' healer she is and how she really needs to stick to normals...yeah, I'm going to blame the player. When that kind of crap happens on a large enough scale to make tanks/healers avoidant, then yeah, that's a playerbase problem.

And yes, that happened to a healer in my guild yesterday. And yes, it upset her and ended her heroic runs for yesterday. She was already nervous to heal on that toon (she's more confident on her Druid) as she felt she was really just barely geared enough. She did great. But some jerk felt the need to shove a bunch of crap in her face despite the fact that nobody died. She didn't keep everyone at 100% though, so clearly she's awful.

Blizzard did not make that player a scumbag.

But that's one less healer who will be queueing today =( I'm hoping she'll feel better after a short break and start healing again as it's the role she prefers, but geez.
^Again, you have no clue what you're talking about, Vandalar. There's nothing you CAN do about queue times, other than make dungeons 1 tank, 5 dps, and 1 healer, at which point you should make queues for 10man raids.

Please just stop talking. Go pick up a Computer Science book, and start doing some work on algorithms. Bring me your algorithm, and I'll prevent you with an actual-use problem with it, then I'll laugh while your mind explodes trying to fix it. You have absolutely no relevant knowledge to this type of issue. It's the same as the idiot DPS that say "healing isn't that hard why can't you outheal that" when they've never healed in their life.

And to your other point, if you had a decent guild, you wouldn't have 1 tank to 7 dps in the guild.
It's not like the over-abundance of DPS is some recent development. Queue times in Wrath were 15-20 minutes.

It shouldn't be surprising that the queue times doubled. Nobody wants to tank or heal w/o gear, infact there is a general theme in both the forums that you should "Gear up as a DPS then when you have the gear to tank, go ahead and switch." This massively cuts the pool of available tanks & healers.

Remember that the dungeon finder was introduced after players were geared... we'll get back there, but it takes time.

Dungeon queues for DPS will be back to 15-20 minutes by the end of the first tier, just have patience.

There's nothing you CAN do about queue times, other than make dungeons 1 tank, 5 dps, and 1 healer, at which point you should make queues for 10man raids.

There's a lot that can be done to improve queue times.

The easiest fix would be to allow up-to 7 "random dungeon rewards per week" rather than 1 per day. This would encourage tanks that play a specific night of the week to queue more than once. It wouldn't really change the DPS queue because the queue times are so long that they won't be able to get that many in anyhow.
Best solution: LFD with a pre-made party. As most of my toons are DPS I do agree I see 45 minute waits on them but when I group up with another dps I see those numbers drop by half even more on peak hours. I even rolled a few tanks and healers just so some of my dps friends dont have to cry over the long waits. This is a MMO not a massively single player online. Ask your guild or friends you met along the way since everything is done faster when you have ppl with you.
02/03/2011 9:25 AMPosted by Nethaera
There's a false perception that we don't want to change things or iterate on things regularly. This is not true. We are always looking at ways to improve the game and the systems within it. Finding the right solution though doesn't always happen as quickly as some would like, and when trying to account for human nature, things get a bit more difficult to predict. We can only provide the tools, see how things go, iterate on them, and see if things improve for you. But, these things take time and there's an awful lot of differing opinions out there.

No one is saying, "This is it, take it or leave it", we're simply saying, "This is our intention. Here's how we designed this to work/play out. Try it out and let us know how it goes."

We're still going to keep pushing to do better, to make things as balanced as possible, and to provide an epic and entertaining gaming experience. We just won't be able to do it overnight.

The Looking For Dungeon queue times are understood to be of issue for some people. If/when we find a better way to get you in to a dungeon quicker, we'll let you know.

It would be nice if blizzard goes though, "We acknowledge this and here are some solutions may consider or scrap entirely for new ones (--------------list--------------) If you have any ideas solutions etc. let us know on this thread".

Get my point, do this early on to ease us players instead of slapping us out of the blue on the PTR with a design that has too much momentum to stop and redo or start something else that could be better. All that happens that way is blizzard wastes time, hiring more developers may not help but more minds, and ideas being put to good use for input would great help you guys.

It honestly doesn't take more than a few hours of work maybe not even more than a few minutes of some discussion to at least right out some plain-Jane solutions on a white board and expand each idea to see if it will work, potential threats and benefits.
I only read a few posts so not sure if this has been suggested but what about an idea like this:

Give people the ability to Q as a vehicle that can tank or heal. Think like the Fire Truck in Ulduar. Say you are a mage but don't mind being the "tank" so you Q up as dps and Vehicle: Tank.

The vehicles could be very generic and not OP. I'm sure blizz has the data to see the average stats of say a iLvl 335 warrior. So the tank gets 40k armor, 145k HP, some block but no dodge or parry. Then give it some basic abilities like an interrupt on like a 10 second cool down, a stun, 1 basic attack that costs "steam", and 1 aoe attack that has a short cool down and also costs "steam". So steam would be the equivalent of rage. They could also have a longer cool down that is like the "Oh Crap" mechanics of other tanks. Take less damage, increase armor, or something like that. Some how balance it so it's not face roll for whomever takes it. IMO i don't think the vehicles have to be a lot of fun but more a means to get done quicker.

For the healer maybe make it the chopper like ulduar or maybe some sort of robot you get in. Make it the same as tank model where it's very generic, big heal, fast heal, aoe heal, and some cool downs. Give "fuel" or something to make it like mana and have them have the same mana issues that some classes have.

You could also get some what elaborate and have the vehicles based off equipped iLvl and/or have multiple vehicles available for both tank and healer as to represent the tanking/healing classes.

i think using the vehicles should make the instance slightly more difficult than if you ran with an average geared/skilled tank/healer, so that a player tank is still preferred and people aren't kicking tanks and healers hoping to get a vehicle instead.
02/03/2011 9:52 AMPosted by Vandalar
Blaming the players is stupid too.

Know your customers. Implement a game that works for your customers.

If most of your customers in the LFD queue are terri-bad, then address it!

I don't think you realize how hard it is to address your player base. Supporting an MMO isn't exactly like a Manufacturing job. There are major differences.

Blizzard has already changed the tooltips on a lot of spell abilities to better clarify them. The problem becomes that much (not all) of the player base has become lazy and relies on mods to do the the job for them.

How many people do you know ask a question about a quest, only to learn that they are asking because they didn't bother to read the quest text. They want to blow through it right away.

To top this off, you yourself are complaining about the queue times, but as a Paladin you have the option to tank or heal. Why haven't you chosen to switch specs and help the queue times?
It would be nice if blizzard goes though, "We acknowledge this and here are some solutions may consider or scrap entirely for new ones (--------------list--------------) If you have any ideas solutions etc. let us know on this thread".

Blizz does not want us fixing their game, they just want us to tell them when we aren't having fun. If enough people aren't having fun because of a game mechanic, then it will get attention, but that doesn't mean they can fix the issue.
45 minute queues does in fact = broken. I understand that Blizz can't make people play tanks (in fact it seems like they're trying to discourage people from doing just that) but any thinking person would have to admit that there are ways to address the issues besides doing nothing. I suspect that the idea is that once enough people get geared the times will come down. A lot of tanks are likely avoiding the content because they know they can't handle it. I have to say though that I am of the opinion that 5-man's shouldn't be quite so exclusionary. You want to make raids prohibitively difficult I don't see a problem with that. I guess the choice was that regular 5-mans are for the average player.

I don't want to say "Make it easier" because honestly I like the heroic content, but then again, I don't tank. I'm seeing a lot who do tank, shaking in their rep gear at the thought of the kind of venom and/or vote kicking that will be thrown at them if they fail to handle the content perfectly. It just doesn't seem to go along with the spirit of a social game.
One way to get people into a dungeon quicker is to get them out quicker. People want 30 min heroics.

Actually, that I agree with. I would not object to seeing dungeons made shorter again. It wouldn't have a huge impact, but I think it would have some.

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