Can we make Unholy DKs viable again?

Arenas
12/27/2015 11:16 AMPosted by Divium
12/27/2015 11:10 AMPosted by Morgan
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/8#class=DeathKnight

That's a lot of Frost DKs in the top 10 of every boss. Oh wait....


you know damn well PvE damage out put has nothing to do with what can be pumped out in PvP.


If you learned to read you'd know my post made perfect sense.
If you read the OP you would've saw that he talked about the PvE excuse, when he's very much wrong.


Those statistics are very specific to particular encounters and additional scaling with BiS item passives/set-bonuses.

This is more useful: http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings#720,real,1

It's the closest approximation to min-max'd DPS in PvP with ilvls similar to PvP gear. Unholy DK is on the low-end of the spectrum for both single and multi-target instances.

Of course, the reason I'm even considering PvE data is because the Unholy spec is dependent on very particular PvE gear to out-sustain FDKs. Since those bonuses aren't available in PvP, they should receive some kind of buffs to throughput (since it is HIGHLY unlikely Necrotic Strike will be seen in WoD).
I play walking dead with an unholy DK. The difference between the two is substantial.
Noxxic is a garbage website to base anything off of, and why would you ever compare 720 ilvl to 740 ilvl gear? It makes a world of a difference.

You make a blanket statement saying Frost parses higher in PvE (which it doesn't) and then say that bonuses aren't available in PvP for why it's now lower, changing your argument entirely.

The REAL problem with Unholy is that if you want meaningful burst, you go breath which kills your spread pressure but ups your single target a lot for around 10 seconds every 2 minutes. But with Frost you have meaningful burst and spread pressure all the time which is only enhanced by pillar + on use or proc every minute.

Also, you have necro plague which only really outshines in PvP when there are 5+ targets, and since 3s is the most popular bracket, you never reach those numbers as Unholy.

I highly doubt they'll hotfix SS / Fester damage this season, so just let it be and wait until Legion for changes. I'm all for spec diversity in classes, but where were the "Buff Frost in PvP" posts? Unholy had its time to shine in MoP, now it's time for Frost to now (which I don't even mind since playing Unholy for an entire expansion does get a little boring).

Possible fixes for RIGHT NOW:
1) Make necro plague undispelable as Unholy.
2) Buff SS / Festering damage.
3) Buff Death Coil damage.
4) Nerf Breath damage but reduce CD to 1 minute or 1:30.
Unholy needs buffes special cased to player combat, it either needs dispel protection and a slight nudge in single target or a strong buff to single target with no dispel protection.

Necrotic strike would be amazing, considering unholy was never compensated for the loss of single target damage potential that it gave off cool down.
12/27/2015 11:47 AMPosted by Nightwind
I play walking dead with an unholy DK. The difference between the two is substantial.


queued into you as a mirror once and your dk was literally tickling us

buff unholy lol
All dk's will need to pay for their WoD sins for which mostly frost is to blame. Hopefully legions will be an entire expansion where you feel like a WoD ele shaman
necrotic strike, and no, don't make it replace scourge strike
Lmao noxxic
bump.
Can't we go back to Cata/MoP unholy
12/27/2015 11:54 AMPosted by Morgan
Noxxic is a garbage website to base anything off of, and why would you ever compare 720 ilvl to 740 ilvl gear? It makes a world of a difference.

You make a blanket statement saying Frost parses higher in PvE (which it doesn't) and then say that bonuses aren't available in PvP for why it's now lower, changing your argument entirely.


Your link had people with BiS gear, which is why I brought up set bonuses b/c in PvE, specs do not scale linearly at all. It's not changing my argument, it's just addressing yours.

Frost DKs will do more damage in RBGs, 5s, 3s, and 2s than unholy.
Some of the arguments the frost community brings up are pretty hard to take. That being said unless you're rocking certain gear and a certain ilvl in pve frost still out performs unholy. Which has nothing to do with pvp at all.

What Jao linked isn't invalid, its what happens when a bunch of people run simcraft on basic setting for each class spec after plugging in full gear. The fact that it appears on noxxic is distasteful but I'm not about to do all that simming myself so...

Here's the problem: What Morgan linked is also valid, perhaps more so because it reflects what is happening on live. In pvp like pve damage/performance is determined by the mechanics of an encounter, your role in group, the group itself and your gear. Use of spells obv as well. Not in that order. There is also a much larger buff pool to draw from, potting, pre potting etc. Several people in the DK forums whom I trust are saying that unholy pulls ahead after a point in gearing. Warcraft logs supports this. That being said, unholy loses until a certain item level with specific items equipped. Which we don't see in pvp. That item level/those equips are locked out. Not a debate point.

That's the point. Not some goalpost shift about 'where was the frost support in MOP' or any other semantic argument. Right now, unholy loses handily to frost in terms of meaningful damage. Frost strike does 2-3x the average damage of death coil, howling blast 2-3x the damage of scourge strike, necrotic plague for frost does on average 2/3 top end 1/3 bottom end of the damage for unholy's nplague. It is easy to hit the top end if you're spamming dispels, chains, howlings into targets. Hell Obliterate does more average damage than scourge strike or festering. In pvp, that is.

Unholy is also pegged as a 'multistrike' class (should have been mastery) see the amount of buffs they've given sub rogues over the course of the expansion in pvp to componsate for that. Now look at unholy, straight nerfs untill 6.2.3 and not special cased to pve either. So we're worse in the spell book, worse in the gear, worse in the stat budget, as unholy.

Necrotic plague in an rbg/add heavy threes can mask our lack of EFFECTIVE/MEANINGFUL (caps for ijits) damage, but it really shows up when the other team keeps necrotic from stacking and chain kills your pet while kiting. Breath of SIn can make you a burst machine for a few seconds every few minutes, great. Most other classes are doing more/more meaningful damage with the icd on their proc trinket.
12/28/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Razieal
The fact that it appears on noxxic is distasteful but I'm not about to do all that simming myself so...


lol I haven't PvE'd in maybe 4 years, I just grabbed the most relevant looking site from a google search.

12/28/2015 08:03 AMPosted by Razieal
That being said, unholy loses until a certain item level with specific items equipped. Which we don't see in pvp.


Precisely, and of course your points on meaningful/effective damage are well made. Thanks
I hate DKs.

If the entire class wasn't viable or removed I would be cool with it.
12/28/2015 08:23 AMPosted by Brutain
I hate DKs.


And orcs shouldn't be able to be rogues. Not even sure how your green sausage fingers can pick up a dagger.
12/28/2015 08:23 AMPosted by Brutain
I hate DKs.

If the entire class wasn't viable or removed I would be cool with it.


since when has anyone cared about your opinion brutain

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