"Raid or Die" has killed WoW.

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01/04/2016 02:47 PMPosted by Denàlo
I like trains.


Best post in the thread.
01/04/2016 04:35 PMPosted by Kazutoshi
I'm a bit amused that a thread about how the game has become raid or die has gotten over 150 upvotes, but you talk about removing LFR and people want to gut you like a fish.

You do realize that by giving players LFR they have removed the need for them to create better world content for the lesser skilled/casual/whatever lingo you want to use players because you're all just playing LFR now?


Yes, I have too noticed this phenomenon of defending LFR at all costs. I honestly don't get it, I think LFR is terrible content.
01/04/2016 05:12 PMPosted by Decado
01/01/2016 11:03 AMPosted by Arcanax
Right now, if you don't raid, there is maybe 2 days worth of content at max level. Spend those 2 days in Tanaan Jungle gearing up with the armor drops that are basically given to you for little effort, and that's it if you don't want to raid.

Too bad if you don't want to raid, because the genius developers thought that's what everyone wanted to do nonstop between content releases.

What were the current devs thinking with this content design? I really like WoW but the current state of the game is utter garbage. There is honestly no reason to even log in anymore if you aren't interested in raiding.

And we have 6 months until Legion drops? Ugh.


You haven't done any raiding and you have almost no pvp kills. It seems like you are choosing to not take part in the two major functions of this game. What were you expecting from this game exactly?


I do have other characters you know. It's true I haven't raided this expansion on any character really. I've grown tired of being pushed to raid by Blizzard. My main is a horde and I gave up on pvp after Season 2 because it is so awful this expansion.

I'm honestly biding my time until Legion.
01/02/2016 04:48 PMPosted by Spinster
But here's the deal: Blizzard decides which bunch of players to listen to. Not everyone complained about the things you mention. Some players complained about other things entirely. The developers are the ones who decided which changes they would make. They decided poorly.

The developers also seem to be crappy listeners. People did NOT complain about daily quests and ask that they all be removed. I don't recall anyone doing that! Players complained about dailies being GATED behind dailies that were GATED behind dailies.


Then you are either suffering from selective memory or never bothered to read the overwhelming majority of post in the MoP Forums concerning Dailies, which can be summed up as:
"DAILIES SUCK BLIZZ!!! I NEVER WANT TO DO ANOTHER DAILY AGAIN!!!"

While there were some that gave reasons (gating, dailies being mandatory etc) most did not.
Your type of "It is not OUR fault" response is not a new ... I recall this same sort of thing back in the Cata Forums.
For the last six odd months of Wrath the forums were alive with post about Heroics and how faceroll they were and how Blizz needed to make the Heroics in Cata... HEROIC! Then needed to have CC and pulls should have to be planned out etc etc.
So Blizz did all that in Cata Beta.
The Cata Beta testers came back and posted to the Forums about how hard Heroics were and how the normal PUG/LFG would not be able to run them.
What was the response from the Wrath Forums?
Concern?
No.
Rejoicing!
The Beta testers were told to LTP and Blizz was told GOOD JOB, this is what we ask for!
Then Cata was released and lo and behold PUG/LFG groups could not do Heroics, these same people that were AOE facerolling Wrath Heroics were getting rolfstomped by trash Mobs left and right.
So what happened?
Did the same people that were calling for Heroic Heroics stand up and say "Well we got what we ask for".
Nope.
They did exactly what you are doing... "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT BLIZZ... WE NEVER ASK FOR THIS!!"
01/04/2016 05:47 PMPosted by Jurkchikin
01/04/2016 02:47 PMPosted by Denàlo
I like trains.


Best post in the thread.


I once rode a train for about 10 hours, hands down the best way to travel (if you have the time).
01/04/2016 06:47 PMPosted by Damonios
Then you are either suffering from selective memory or never bothered to read the overwhelming majority of post in the MoP Forums concerning Dailies, which can be summed up as:
"DAILIES SUCK BLIZZ!!! I NEVER WANT TO DO ANOTHER DAILY AGAIN!!!"


I don't want to quote the whole thing but,...that's way to much logic and good memory in their for GD sir, we will have to ask you to leave quietly
01/01/2016 11:41 AMPosted by Pharsalus
01/01/2016 11:33 AMPosted by Kromkosh
They must have removed PvP when I wasn't looking.


You got Ashran. I'm sure you're satisfied with that.

@ OP -

01/01/2016 11:03 AMPosted by Arcanax
What were the current devs thinking with this content design?


Here's a long answer. First off, remember this name 'Furor Planedefiler' (In EQ you could have a surname)

************************************
For a long time in EQ, from roughly mid-Velious running up to the Gates of Discord launch, one of the worst things about EQ was Furor Planedefiler. His influence spread across all aspects of the game, and the only people to benefit from his influence were people in bleeding edge guilds, and I think sometimes they would even argue against that.

Due to the high profile and visibility of Fires of Heaven's site, and his presence on the board, he had undue influence over development resources, development decisions and game design for being just a player. Aveneyer linked his rant about the design of P1 of Plane of Time below. What you might not realize, that was EVERY !@#$ING WEEK from Furor. I exaggerate, but only slightly. It was a vicious cycle that ran something like this: FoH tears though raid content > Furor goes to the EQ forums complaining that they've went through all the raid content, demanding more or he's taking his guild and millions of fans to Dark Age of Camelot, Horizons, Asheron's Call or whatever the %^-* failed MMO was launching or about to launch > Frantic EQ management pulls development from working on things that actually need worked on to push the raid content Furor demands. After this step, there's a few ways that things can go. Sometimes the content works correctly and Fires of Heaven tear through it, farm everything they want, and then we go back to the Furor on the boards step. Sometimes the content is broken because it didn't have ample testing time, and we're back to the Furor on the boards step. Every once in a while, there's an elaborate keying/flagging sequence designed to slow FoH the !@#$ down so that the devs have breathing time, and we're back to the Furor on the boards step, this time crying because flagging is taking way too long and/or drops are too rare (hi, Maiden's Eye Lucid Shard).

Meanwhile, if you want to look at itemization as the left hand and design as the right hand, they have no idea what the other hand is doing. Itemization is creating group content gear that's a slight incremental increase and raid gear that has a significantly larger increase. Design is seeing that players in Beta aren't having a hard time with mobs, so the answer for them is to increase mob ac, hit points and/or base damage, without taking into account that the people in Beta that are the loudest and most outspoken about content difficulty are testing it in their raid gear, and aren't a good representative of what people in group gear are wearing. Itemization gets reports back from development that players are doing okay in gear that was similar to what they were playing in the prior expansion, and group gear gets little to no increase, while raid gear is scaling up because they're telling them that Ssra is intended to be xx much more difficult than Sleeper's Tomb, so the dropped gear needs to reflect that.

Meanwhile, Furor's Supremacy Of The Warrior Tank dogma led directly to the dominance of the Holy Trinity for a long time. If Furor happened to see a knight, or - god forbid - a ranger surviving an encounter with an even con mob with nothing but a druid or shaman for a healer, off to the boards to complain some more or organize a warrior protest.

I was glad to see him go when he finally left, and the only thing that upsets me about him leaving was that it took so long for itemization to get their heads of their asses and make group gear viable for normal gameplay.

************************

Now, I know what you're thinking, 'Hey, he was just a dedicated Raidleader wanting more out of the game'.

Wait, it gets better.

**************************

003-05-09 18:50:26 - Furor Planedefiler

You have 14 Days. If after that time the Plane is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play Everquest.

To be brief, I did not work my a44 off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where only groups of 18 could enjoy the content. EVEN if past these initial moronic events I can finally get my entire guild in to raid with me, F&^K YOU GUYS. Seriously, F&^K YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in the Plane of Time, and 3/4 of my guild is just sitting around while a group of 18 is repeatedly trying to beat one of the mini ring encounters. Don't you people have ANY F&^KING DECENCY? SMEDLEY WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate c0c*block encounter in the form of the Rathe which requires 80 people to defeat and then to limit encounters in the Plane of Time to 18.
14 Days.... after that this site will change from the most popular EQ fan site on the internet to the most popular World of Warcraft fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless f&^kers... it's my turn.

*******************

Please note that much of Furor's rants confirm the first part of this response.

So who is Furor Planedefiler? I'm glad you asked.

Alex was once the leader of Fires of Heaven, a famous Everquest guild. His character, Kalaran, was the first Level 50 in Everquest. He was known by the community as "Furor Planedefiler"

Which Alex? I'm glad you asked.

Alex Afrasiabi aka Valnoth is the Creative Director for World of Warcraft.

And now, as Paul Harvey used to say, you know the rest of the story.


this should be a required read for everyone before having the privelage of posting on these forums
01/05/2016 01:40 AMPosted by Leetxname
this should be a required read for everyone before having the privelage of posting on these forums


Sounds like he knew what he was talking about.

Now that raiding is so easily puggable and guilds are less needed for raiding. The game is slowly getting worse and worse.
You had heaps of dailies and factions to keep you occupied back in Pandaria. Solo content.

But you all complained about them. So enjoy your lack of content.
01/05/2016 02:00 AMPosted by Goldbrand
You had heaps of dailies and factions to keep you occupied back in Pandaria. Solo content.

But you all complained about them. So enjoy your lack of content.
Not everyone complained about them.
01/05/2016 02:00 AMPosted by Goldbrand
You had heaps of dailies and factions to keep you occupied back in Pandaria. Solo content.

But you all complained about them. So enjoy your lack of content.


It is called, Not pushing the bar forward? It is Blizzard Job to make sure I am happy. Not the other way around. If I am not happy with dailies. Come up with new systems. Face book game? LOL. Raiding? LMAO
yes it is disappointing there is no progression outside raiding. We'll have to see what's in legion. I'm not sure crazy hard dungeon scaling will be better than raid. All depends on how it will be done.
01/05/2016 03:25 AMPosted by Ràger
It is Blizzard Job to make sure I am happy
BAhaha god you are full of yourself, no it is not their job to please you and kiss your !@# it is their job to make sure the game works and is profitable, if that means you are pushed out because it's no longer fun to you the .5 people that replace you will make up for your loss, you are not as important as you think you are.
01/05/2016 04:34 AMPosted by Denàlo
01/05/2016 03:25 AMPosted by Ràger
It is Blizzard Job to make sure I am happy
BAhaha god you are full of yourself, no it is not their job to please you and kiss your !@# it is their job to make sure the game works and is profitable, if that means you are pushed out because it's no longer fun to you the .5 people that replace you will make up for your loss, you are not as important as you think you are.


See you are the reason why video game companies get away with things that a normal company would not.
The feedback players give, many companies pay people to give them.

So yes, It is Blizzard job to make sure I am happy, I told them how, I give them feedback, and ask for options for all play styles.

If blizzard would have listen to me. They would not have the failure that is WOD. You should be thanking me for even doing that much.

They listen to players like yourself and paid a price for it.
01/05/2016 03:57 AMPosted by Ajkaceratops
I'm genuinely at a loss and have no idea what direction to go in because I'm simply out of things to do.

If you are Legitimacy out of things to do, you stop playing untill they add more things for you to do, Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp.It's literally how it works now blizzard even said that the majority of players are cyclical that means they logg on play till they are bored then leave then come back, Those few of us who sub All the time are a minority and they cannot cater to the minority because it's physically impossible to make content fast enough to sate the appetite of people who play the game ''all the time''.
Again, why is it so hard for you people to let go for a few months? the game will still be here when legion comes out the game will not collapse if all of you take 6 months off or never come back, new players will replace you.
01/05/2016 04:38 AMPosted by Ràger
If blizzard would have listen to me. They would not have the failure that is WOD. You should be thanking me for even doing that much.


I would much rather you take your the customer is always right attitude and buzz off
01/05/2016 04:38 AMPosted by Denàlo
If you are Legitimacy out of things to do, you stop playing untill they add more things for you to do, Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp.It's literally how it works now blizzard even said that the majority of players are cyclical that means they logg on play till they are bored then leave then come back, Those few of us who sub All the time are a minority and they cannot cater to the minority because it's physically impossible to make content fast enough to sate the appetite of people who play the game ''all the time''.
Again, why is it so hard for you people to let go for a few months? the game will still be here when legion comes out the game will not collapse if all of you take 6 months off or never come back, new players will replace you.


LMAO see that type of logic is bad.

"If you are out of things to do..quit"

WOW is a service and it is Blizzard job to make sure players are happy. They failed so hard with WOD, that is amazing. They have all this tons of feedback, and they took the worse of it and made WOD.

I do agree more people should quit and NOT come back if wow failed to be a good service. WOD was the worse. Legion is their last chance for giving players a service. It is blizzard job to try and make most of us happy, and they got the feedback to do it.
01/01/2016 11:41 AMPosted by Pharsalus
01/01/2016 11:33 AMPosted by Kromkosh
They must have removed PvP when I wasn't looking.


You got Ashran. I'm sure you're satisfied with that.

@ OP -

01/01/2016 11:03 AMPosted by Arcanax
What were the current devs thinking with this content design?


Here's a long answer. First off, remember this name 'Furor Planedefiler' (In EQ you could have a surname)

************************************
For a long time in EQ, from roughly mid-Velious running up to the Gates of Discord launch, one of the worst things about EQ was Furor Planedefiler. His influence spread across all aspects of the game, and the only people to benefit from his influence were people in bleeding edge guilds, and I think sometimes they would even argue against that.

Due to the high profile and visibility of Fires of Heaven's site, and his presence on the board, he had undue influence over development resources, development decisions and game design for being just a player. Aveneyer linked his rant about the design of P1 of Plane of Time below. What you might not realize, that was EVERY !@#$ING WEEK from Furor. I exaggerate, but only slightly. It was a vicious cycle that ran something like this: FoH tears though raid content > Furor goes to the EQ forums complaining that they've went through all the raid content, demanding more or he's taking his guild and millions of fans to Dark Age of Camelot, Horizons, Asheron's Call or whatever the %^-* failed MMO was launching or about to launch > Frantic EQ management pulls development from working on things that actually need worked on to push the raid content Furor demands. After this step, there's a few ways that things can go. Sometimes the content works correctly and Fires of Heaven tear through it, farm everything they want, and then we go back to the Furor on the boards step. Sometimes the content is broken because it didn't have ample testing time, and we're back to the Furor on the boards step. Every once in a while, there's an elaborate keying/flagging sequence designed to slow FoH the !@#$ down so that the devs have breathing time, and we're back to the Furor on the boards step, this time crying because flagging is taking way too long and/or drops are too rare (hi, Maiden's Eye Lucid Shard).

Meanwhile, if you want to look at itemization as the left hand and design as the right hand, they have no idea what the other hand is doing. Itemization is creating group content gear that's a slight incremental increase and raid gear that has a significantly larger increase. Design is seeing that players in Beta aren't having a hard time with mobs, so the answer for them is to increase mob ac, hit points and/or base damage, without taking into account that the people in Beta that are the loudest and most outspoken about content difficulty are testing it in their raid gear, and aren't a good representative of what people in group gear are wearing. Itemization gets reports back from development that players are doing okay in gear that was similar to what they were playing in the prior expansion, and group gear gets little to no increase, while raid gear is scaling up because they're telling them that Ssra is intended to be xx much more difficult than Sleeper's Tomb, so the dropped gear needs to reflect that.

Meanwhile, Furor's Supremacy Of The Warrior Tank dogma led directly to the dominance of the Holy Trinity for a long time. If Furor happened to see a knight, or - god forbid - a ranger surviving an encounter with an even con mob with nothing but a druid or shaman for a healer, off to the boards to complain some more or organize a warrior protest.

I was glad to see him go when he finally left, and the only thing that upsets me about him leaving was that it took so long for itemization to get their heads of their asses and make group gear viable for normal gameplay.

************************

Now, I know what you're thinking, 'Hey, he was just a dedicated Raidleader wanting more out of the game'.

Wait, it gets better.

**************************

003-05-09 18:50:26 - Furor Planedefiler

You have 14 Days. If after that time the Plane is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play Everquest.

To be brief, I did not work my a44 off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where only groups of 18 could enjoy the content. EVEN if past these initial moronic events I can finally get my entire guild in to raid with me, F&^K YOU GUYS. Seriously, F&^K YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in the Plane of Time, and 3/4 of my guild is just sitting around while a group of 18 is repeatedly trying to beat one of the mini ring encounters. Don't you people have ANY F&^KING DECENCY? SMEDLEY WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate c0c*block encounter in the form of the Rathe which requires 80 people to defeat and then to limit encounters in the Plane of Time to 18.
14 Days.... after that this site will change from the most popular EQ fan site on the internet to the most popular World of Warcraft fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless f&^kers... it's my turn.

*******************

Please note that much of Furor's rants confirm the first part of this response.

So who is Furor Planedefiler? I'm glad you asked.

Alex was once the leader of Fires of Heaven, a famous Everquest guild. His character, Kalaran, was the first Level 50 in Everquest. He was known by the community as "Furor Planedefiler"

Which Alex? I'm glad you asked.

Alex Afrasiabi aka Valnoth is the Creative Director for World of Warcraft.

And now, as Paul Harvey used to say, you know the rest of the story.


Thank you for the background . I watched Alex in Blizzcon and found him to be hilarious.

As far as the OP goes I do not understand the argument or the complaint. I tried out TESO which has a very poor raid game , a pretty bad WpVP end game and just a bunch of crafting , questing and collecting.

WoW has a significant achievement game if you wish to max them out ... plenty of collectable, admittedly the profession is a little poor at the moment.

I just really do not understand what people want - once you complete WoD 90-100 then you have no more quests , there will be no more till the next expansion. Either pick something to do if you dont want to raid or pvp or log off and leave us alone.

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