Since when...

General Discussion
No, I don't want authority figures enabled to step in every time I feel butt hurt about how someone talks to me. Blizzard provides an ignore button. There is also such a thing as ignoring someone if they are behaving in a manner you find inconsistent with your personal happiness and stability.

Choose your friends, grow a thicker skin, and aim your life at what you want instead of demanding "authorities" step in and make the world your own special safe place.

For the record, I find that ignoring a bully or a mean troll works best. I mean in real life too. They want to get a rise out of you. People who do not react puzzle bullies, they don't know what to do with it and they usually move on to find a thinner skinned target who will react and QQ.
01/29/2016 11:40 AMPosted by Grubgrabber
01/29/2016 11:37 AMPosted by Confuscius

Same can be said for someone who pushes another, and the person pushes back gets into trouble. Just ask any football player who defended themselves and then got 15-yard penalty for it.


...Breaking the rules of a game does not translate to life.

In the actual real world, you sometimes have to defend yourself from physical harm with physical violence. That does not mean that you defend yourself from WORDS with physical violence.

So all the boys and girls over the years who punched someone for saying really bad things about a family member are wrong? C'mon man, gotta defend the family's character! :)
Words are the funniest of "weapons" it is the one weapon that the "victim" decides the level of damage and for some reason now they think they always have to opt for 11. You have to choose to be offend from something as minor as that, and don't expect me to back your choice.
01/29/2016 10:30 AMPosted by Eossemper
So much so that I had to make a new thread to say so.


No. You WANTED to make a new thread to say so. There's a difference. I'm not saying you shouldn't speak out if you feel harassed or abused or bullied. You should. But the thread you linked is only 6 pages long. You could've easily posted there and voiced your opinion.

What I find, personally speaking, to be of great interest is that despite you feeling so strongly about the thread, you have not reported it.

Interesting, indeed.
Was a separate thread on this really necessary? The other post is still going and despite the topic has been more or less civil.

I'll say here what I've been saying over there though. Words are just that, words. It's the opinion of one person or a group of people. Words only hurt when we allow them to. Of course there are exceptions but for the most part someone taking offense to something is making that choice. Someone punching you in the face is not the same as someone telling you that you're worthless and will never amount to anything. That punch in the face will cause you physical harm that short of stopping or deflecting the attack you don't have a choice in. You can choose to laugh at the person thinking you're worthless or take it personally.

The point is that the world we live in isn't simple, it's not evil and good or black and white. Everything is shades of grey
01/29/2016 10:30 AMPosted by Eossemper
It's not called being a white-knight. It's not called PC culture. It's not called feminazi. It's not called being too sensitive. It's not called not being able to take a joke. It's not called political correctness.


Well, that depends. Some things ARE, in fact,

01/29/2016 10:30 AMPosted by Eossemper
racist, misogynistic, ignorant


but some things that aren't are treated as if they are. That's when the PC culture becomes a problem. For example, as a gay man, I am not attracted to women. Girl parts gross me out. That sentence is not sexist, and if you think it is, you're probably a feminazi.

If you're comparing theft (stealing a wallet) to words, then yes, you're being too sensitive (not to mention irrational).

01/29/2016 10:30 AMPosted by Eossemper
Since when is it wrong, when someone is being harassed, bullied, or harmed in any other way, for them to stand up for themselves and fight back? Since when it is wrong if someone is harassed, bullied, or harmed in any other way, for other people to stand up and fight for them?


It's not. Those things are not wrong.

What's wrong is appealing to authority to FORCE people to stop saying things you don't like.

Finally,

01/29/2016 11:46 AMPosted by Alterlia
Was a separate thread on this really necessary?
01/29/2016 11:43 AMPosted by Confuscius
So all the boys and girls over the years who punched someone for saying really bad things about a family member are wrong? C'mon man, gotta defend the family's character! :)

You seem confused, let me explain.

There is nothing anyone can do, other than violence, that justifies the use of violence.

it doesn't matter if they where mean, or they said something about your mother, or they won't go on a date with you.

Unless they where already using violence, then you are the one in the wrong for using violence.
01/29/2016 11:43 AMPosted by Confuscius

So all the boys and girls over the years who punched someone for saying really bad things about a family member are wrong? C'mon man, gotta defend the family's character! :)


Yeeeeaaaah, they kinda were.

We all react emotionally at times, though.
01/29/2016 10:30 AMPosted by Eossemper
Since when is it wrong, when someone is being harassed, bullied, or harmed in any other way, for them to stand up for themselves and fight back? Since when it is wrong if someone is harassed, bullied, or harmed in any other way, for other people to stand up and fight for them? In my book this is a GOOD thing.

I am am PROUD that we have a culture that is finally standing up to the bullies and thugs of this world that are causing people harm. NO, we will NOT stop fighting against you just so you can go back to being a racist, misogynistic, ignorant, pig-headed bigot!

It's not called being a white-knight. It's not called PC culture. It's not called feminazi. It's not called being too sensitive. It's not called not being able to take a joke. It's not called political correctness. It's called realizing that other people have feelings and deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, and not cruelty. It's called being a kind, good, and decent human being.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20419964381?page=1

Some of the comments in here are disgraceful.. So much so that I had to make a new thread to say so.


By now you should know that blizzard fosters negative behavior and any attempt to change that is met with hostility.

01/29/2016 10:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
Tattling to your parents isn't really standing up for yourself.

It's just finding someone else to fight your battles.


But that "logic", a person should just put a bullet in someone committing a crime because calling the police is just finding someone else to fight your battles but then again, you've never shown an abundance of common sense while responding to folks here.
OP, it's not "wrong" to stand up to a jerk, but there are options in WoW.

1. Blizzard taking action

When something is really vulgar, offensive or otherwise severe, Blizzard has enough manpower to address such things. But they don't have enough manpower to address every time someone says a mean thing across millions of players. It's unreasonable to expect Blizzard to swoop in every time someone calls someone else a loser. That doesn't mean it's acceptable social behavior, but Blizzard can't police millions of people into being nice.

2. Eye-For-An-Eye

You can get really immature and nasty back at the person. Not ideal, but most people have had those moments.

3. Pacifism

You can sit there and do absolutely nothing.

4. Standing Up For Yourself

You can put the person on ignore, so that they can't communicate with you anymore. This sends a clear of message of, "I am not going to sink to your level or tolerate your crap. Good day." You may even announce that before putting them on ignore, if you feel inclined. If the person gets on other characters to come at you, then bam, you've got them for harassment.

I'm guessing that previously in life you either experienced yourself or witnessed others experiencing being stuck in a situation where Option 4 wasn't possible like it is on the internet. Commonly happens in grade school, where kids can say mean stuff to you, and you can't just choose to not go to class anymore. Well you can, but that has serious consequences. Nor can you choose to just go to a different math class until you find one with no jerks in it. If you experienced or witnessed that sort of thing, then I can understand why something like a jerk in WoW might trigger a strong desire for justice. And in situations like school/work/etc I do think authority figures should action mean attitudes. Managing social behavior in a classroom or workplace isn't the same feat as managing social behaviors in an online community of millions.

But it's important to see the differences. I think if someone gets called a loser by a stranger on the internet, they should ignore and not invest any emotion in it. If someone were getting verbally abused in the workplace, a place they have to be day after day to make a living, and where there is no ignore button, then I'd encourage them to take it straight to HR, and wouldn't consider it "tattle taling" in the least, because it's a different situation in the ways I described.
01/29/2016 10:49 AMPosted by Snowfox
I still think it's hot air to act like you're 'standing up for yourself', when all you are doing is running off to get help from authorities at any perceived offense.

That's not brave.

It's whiny.


A little perspective, if you don't mind: how exactly is one supposed to put a halt to namecalling and bullying when one's options are to tell authorities (report) or to go away (ignore/log off)?

Or do you think fighting fire with fire- getting into a name-calling contest- is the correct answer? Now, there's whiny, if you like, and pointless as well. It certainly isn't going to teach anyone that bad behavior has consequences.

Myself, I'd rather take the appropriate steps; namely, when I am powerless to put a stop to someone's bad behavior, I turn to the people who can deal with it. You want to call it tattling, fine, but it is taking decisive action. It's far better than letting myself be a doormat and doing nothing of consequence.

And for context, I say this as someone who is more bored than annoyed by the rubbish in Trade.
01/29/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Baell
01/29/2016 10:43 AMPosted by Snowfox
Tattling to your parents isn't really standing up for yourself.

It's just finding someone else to fight your battles.


But that "logic", a person should just put a bullet in someone committing a crime because calling the police is just finding someone else to fight your battles but then again, you've never shown an abundance of common sense while responding to folks here.


Actually, that's not the logical next step of Snowfox's reasoning at all. You might want to calm down a little if you connect "Tattling over words" to "Shoot people for committing theft."

In general, laws exist to protect our rights. We have a right to our property. We do not have a right to not have our feelings hurt.

01/29/2016 11:53 AMPosted by Venovel
A little perspective, if you don't mind: how exactly is one supposed to put a halt to namecalling and bullying when one's options are to tell authorities (report) or to go away (ignore/log off)?


The simple fact is that you're not going to put a halt to those things, especially not on the internet. The ignore feature is your best bet.
01/29/2016 11:53 AMPosted by Aumbelle
OP, it's not "wrong" to stand up to a jerk, but there are options in WoW.

1. Blizzard taking action

When something is really vulgar, offensive or otherwise severe, Blizzard has enough manpower to address such things. But they don't have enough manpower to address every time someone says a mean thing across millions of players. It's unreasonable to expect Blizzard to swoop in every time someone calls someone else a loser. That doesn't mean it's acceptable social behavior, but Blizzard can't police millions of people into being nice.

2. Eye-For-An-Eye

You can get really immature and nasty back at the person. Not ideal, but most people have had those moments.

3. Pacifism

You can sit there and do absolutely nothing.

4. Standing Up For Yourself

You can put the person on ignore, so that they can't communicate with you anymore. This sends a clear of message of, "I am not going to sink to your level or tolerate your crap. Good day." You may even announce that before putting them on ignore, if you feel inclined. If the person gets on other characters to come at you, then bam, you've got them for harassment.

I'm guessing that previously in life you either experienced yourself or witnessed others experiencing being stuck in a situation where Option 4 wasn't possible like it is on the internet. Commonly happens in grade school, where kids can say mean stuff to you, and you can't just choose to not go to class anymore. Well you can, but that has serious consequences. Nor can you choose to just go to a different math class until you find one with no jerks in it. If you experienced or witnessed that sort of thing, then I can understand why something like a jerk in WoW might trigger a strong desire for justice. And in situations like school/work/etc I do think authority figures should action mean attitudes. Managing social behavior in a classroom or workplace isn't the same feat as managing social behaviors in an online community of millions.

But it's important to see the differences. I think if someone gets called a loser by a stranger on the internet, they should ignore and not invest any emotion in it. If someone were getting verbally abused in the workplace, a place they have to be day after day to make a living, and where there is no ignore button, then I'd encourage them to take it straight to HR, and wouldn't consider it "tattle taling" in the least, because it's a different situation in the ways I described.


This is a surprisingly well-thought-out response, and I honestly cannot find anything to disagree with in it.
In the event that someone says something mean to you, you have 3 options.

1. Remember that the person is most likely brushing Cheeto dust off their keyboard after typing that statement.

2. Tell Blizzard, depending on severity.

3. Press ALT+F4 to make the meany go away. If this somehow fails, please locate the Power button on your device and use it. Then remove the device's plug from the wall, if applicable.
01/29/2016 11:53 AMPosted by Venovel

A little perspective, if you don't mind: how exactly is one supposed to put a halt to namecalling and bullying when one's options are to tell authorities (report) or to go away (ignore/log off)?


Ignoring is not going away. It is removing a nuisance, and is the appropriate step to take in such a situation. Should the person continue to harass you with alts, however, reporting becomes the appropriate step.

The simple fact is that the RIGHT step is not always the one that sits right with you. Sometimes, doing the "appropriate" thing doesn't give you that warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing you're gonna get someone in trouble.

EDIT: Why the ever-loving hell does the forum keep adding an extra [/quote] tag? >:(
I tell my grandkids that letting a bully bother you with their words is giving them power over you.Do you want to be the strong person who shakes their head and walks on,or the powerless one who allows someone else to control how you think,feel,and act?
01/29/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Baell
But that "logic", a person should just put a bullet in someone committing a crime because calling the police is just finding someone else to fight your battles but then again, you've never shown an abundance of common sense while responding to folks here.


Really, you just went all in on gun violence, comparing it to 'mean guy on interwebs said mean thingies'?

I just, whatever. Go to your safe place!

/Moo
And yes.. words SHOULD be considered a crime in some instances.


words from some random loser should never bother anyone if they do i have to question how much self respect the person being offended has .

and this is coming from someone who bullyed the bullies in highschool
01/29/2016 10:54 AMPosted by Eossemper
What you are talking about is mob law.. he punched me, so I punch him. He killed my dog, so I kill his. He stole from me, so I steal from him.

That's not what intelligent civilized people do.. it's what barbarians with no rational thought and an IQ of 4 do.


You just described pretty much how every war in human history has ever started. One person or persons did something to someone else and that party retaliated.

Honestly whether you like it or not people need to be humbled. Take for instance if someone was to assault my wife or kids. They had better pray to whatever deity they believe in that the cops get them first.

Now in the case of words. I honestly don't get how people can get offended by words. If you are secure enough with yourself no one else opinion should matter.
01/29/2016 12:11 PMPosted by Alidir


Now in the case of words. I honestly don't get how people can get offended by words. If you are secure enough with yourself no one else opinion should matter.


Because it is trendy and cool to be the victim now so people search for ways to victimize themselves.

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