Another Option For Flying? Is It Time?

General Discussion
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01/05/2016 06:58 AMPosted by Ashinjha
As a perpetually poor altoholic; I LOVE PATHFINDER. Sure it's a little grindy but it unlocks flying for ALL my 20ish alts! I could never afford the gold option on all of them in past expansions, so I really hope this is the way they handle flying in Legion.


That is fine. People don't want to take that away. What we want is a option to pay for flying with gold for one char.

And no it does not have to be 100.000 gold. 25.000 is good enough.
01/05/2016 12:59 AMPosted by Lòst
I understand that some people have no problem with the grind, especially those that have been with WOD from the start and had a lot of it done before it went live.

However for someone coming in late, it's a rather overwhelming task and quite paralysing, especially as it feels like once the various grinds are done flying will feel rather redundant. Tanaan can also feel a bit frustrating when people are constantly zooming down and picking off rares and chests before you can tag them.

Now I'm not asking for a handout, but it would be nice at this point in the expansion to allow people the option of purchasing it for gold. Even if it's a significant amount (50k feels about right). Or maybe attach it to ATOC or something?

Personally, I'm really not a fan of the way this was handled and I think it sets a rather bad precedent. I have no problems with grinds - they tend to be part and parcel of the MMO experience. What I don't like is stuff that feels quite important to people wanting to engage with the world and has also been something available for a small price or for free in previous expansions suddenly locked behind a grind, in lieu of extending content. Would you be okay if transmogging got the same treatment in Legion? Or some other nice but non essential feature we have for free now? I wouldn't.

TL/DR: Grinds should give neat new stuff, like cool mounts, toys, titles etc. I think that offering a different route for WOD flying would be a nice gesture at this point in the expansion, possibly allowing it to be unlocked via killing Archi H or a large sum of gold.

Thoughts? I know people feel strongly about this, but please keep feedback constructive.

EDIT: To clarify, since some people seem to be taking this as a QQ post - all I'm asking for is a choice of ways to earn flying. Much like we can now upgrade rings with valor. It's going to be very irritating for people to have to do the grind in Legion if they want to fly on alts in WOD.


No. The achievement barely takes any time at all, in terms of grinds this one is laughable. If you want flight in Draenor then suck it up and put the work like everyone else that has it. And yeah, this does sound exactly like a QQ post.
01/05/2016 07:05 AMPosted by Ràger
01/05/2016 06:58 AMPosted by Ashinjha
As a perpetually poor altoholic; I LOVE PATHFINDER. Sure it's a little grindy but it unlocks flying for ALL my 20ish alts! I could never afford the gold option on all of them in past expansions, so I really hope this is the way they handle flying in Legion.


That is fine. People don't want to take that away. What we want is a option to pay for flying with gold for one char.

And no it does not have to be 100.000 gold. 25.000 is good enough.


You'll probably get your little wish once Legion comes out. Divorcing flight from what will then be irrelevant content will be tough to avoid, IMO. Then again, we *still* can't outright vendor purchase flying in MoP until 90.

I wouldn't hold your breath, though. I personally hope it stays as-is until the Legion pre-patch at the very least.
01/05/2016 07:05 AMPosted by Ràger
01/05/2016 06:58 AMPosted by Ashinjha
As a perpetually poor altoholic; I LOVE PATHFINDER. Sure it's a little grindy but it unlocks flying for ALL my 20ish alts! I could never afford the gold option on all of them in past expansions, so I really hope this is the way they handle flying in Legion.


That is fine. People don't want to take that away. What we want is a option to pay for flying with gold for one char.

And no it does not have to be 100.000 gold. 25.000 is good enough.


NOT going to happen unless the guys in charge of these decisions no longer are. People cried about flying for a year and blizzard didn't want to even put it in and people like OP, i.e. people who raid, say we don't really care, we don't really miss it, etc and now because other people who did miss flying fought for it and were happy with the compromise they saying oh change it - it is too much work because they never really valued it in the first place.
01/05/2016 01:15 AMPosted by Saphrielle
I'm working on finishing the flying reqs now and haven't really been too bothered by it. Sure, it can take a bit but at least it gives me something to do. Out of all of it I think the 100 treasures might be a bit much, but that's just me. The rest hasn't been too awful, even the rep. I've made quite a bit gold so far from working on it.


I agree, I did it about a month ago, It was actually kind of enjoyable at some times exploring the world, but I think 100 treasures was too much. Maybe 75 or even 50 would've been better.
No. Maybe in Legion but not now. Changing it now would be unfair to those who went through and got the Pathfinder achievement.
01/05/2016 07:13 AMPosted by Dis
NOT going to happen unless the guys in charge of these decisions no longer are. People cried about flying for a year and blizzard didn't want to even put it in and people like OP, i.e. people who raid, say we don't really care, we don't really miss it, etc and now because other people who did miss flying fought for it and were happy with the compromise they saying oh change it - it is too much work because they never really valued it in the first place.


The thing is. This is not a compromise at all. This is removing options, and forcing players to do content they don't want to do in order to get what they want a feature that has been in the game since BC.

Before it was just gold. The system was fine, If they want to add a option for a achievement for all alts. That is fine also. HOWEVER taking away the gold option is not fine. Never will be fine.

That way of thinking Blizzard has is why people are having second thoughts on legion. When they said "flying won't be at the start, and it is going to be achievement." What they are saying they have not learn a damn thing. They take away options for people who don't give a flying hoot about grinding factions, for no reason at all.

They just forced players to play sub par content because it hurts their little feelings that people find WOD to be crap.
01/05/2016 07:18 AMPosted by Ràger
01/05/2016 07:13 AMPosted by Dis
NOT going to happen unless the guys in charge of these decisions no longer are. People cried about flying for a year and blizzard didn't want to even put it in and people like OP, i.e. people who raid, say we don't really care, we don't really miss it, etc and now because other people who did miss flying fought for it and were happy with the compromise they saying oh change it - it is too much work because they never really valued it in the first place.


The thing is. This is not a compromise at all. This is removing options, and forcing players to do content they don't want to do in order to get what they want a feature that has been in the game since BC.

Before it was just gold. The system was fine, If they want to add a option for a achievement for all alts. That is fine also. HOWEVER taking away the gold option is not fine. Never will be fine.

That way of thinking Blizzard has is why people are having second thoughts on legion. When they said "flying won't be at the start, and it is going to be achievement." What they are saying they have not learn a damn thing. They take away options for people who don't give a flying hoot about grinding factions, for no reason at all.

They just forced players to play sub par content because it hurts their little feelings that people find WOD to be crap.


They should make people like you who claim that Blizzard is just being petty and who cry about how Blizz is punishing them and what an awful boring grind the achievement is have to do it twice. With all the time you've spent on the forums crying about how punishing the achievement is you could probably already be done with it. Quit acting like a victim.

The thing is. This is not a compromise at all. This is removing options, and forcing players to do content they don't want to do in order to get what they want a feature that has been in the game since BC.

Before it was just gold. The system was fine, If they want to add a option for a achievement for all alts. That is fine also. HOWEVER taking away the gold option is not fine. Never will be fine.

..............

Except the value of Gold has cratered since TBC when flying was introduced. The cost would have to be insane to match the time spent on Pathfinder. Even with that Gold is just too easy to make right now.

If it's ever sold it should be for Valor.
01/05/2016 07:18 AMPosted by Ràger
The thing is. This is not a compromise at all. This is removing options, and forcing players to do content they don't want to do in order to get what they want a feature that has been in the game since BC.

Before it was just gold. The system was fine, If they want to add a option for a achievement for all alts. That is fine also. HOWEVER taking away the gold option is not fine. Never will be fine.


Counterpoint - it's fine with me.

Acting like 'forcing players to do content they don't want to do' is a legit argument is really difficult to take seriously. There's a *ton* of rewards in the game that I'd love to have but don't really feel like doing the content associated with obtaining them. Like all of those things, you just have to weigh how much you value the cost versus the reward.

You can say 'butbutbut it didn't USED to be like this' until you're blue in the face, but things change. Like Dis was saying upthread, the regime in charge of the game right now seems to have quite a different idea of flight's place in the game. Until something changes there, we aren't likely to get anything different than the current meta-achievement based system for flight later in an expansion's lifespan. I'm okay with that, especially considering the alternative of being grounded eternally in current content, which is what the current group of in-charge devs would seemingly have us do if they had their druthers.

Edit - fixed incomplete paragraph
01/05/2016 02:10 AMPosted by Ràger
01/05/2016 02:05 AMPosted by Quenya
It takes maybe 8-12 days, tops if you level an alt to get the achievement.

Claiming "I started late" doesn't cut it.

I would actually have some sympathy for your cause if you were just honest that you don't want to put in the effort. Admit your playstyle is sitting in your garrison and doing instances.

But trying to couch it is some sort of sob story is pure BS and you know it.


It is boring.
It is tedious.
It is gated content that we had before.
It forces players to do content that they "gasp" might not want to do.

So in other words. It is bad. And all of you should feel bad for supporting blizzard bad habits. But hey keep doing it. I am grinning as the subs keep falling.
And yet, you're still here.
01/05/2016 07:28 AMPosted by Trystero
Counterpoint - it's fine with me.

Acting like 'forcing players to do content they don't want to do' is a legit argument is really difficult to take seriously. There's a *ton* of rewards in the game that I'd love to have but don't really feel like doing the content associated with obtaining them. Like all of those things, you just have to weigh how much you value the cost versus the reward.


Ok, are you saying flying is not needed? Because when I see people complain all the time in chat, how flyers just swoop in on rare mobs and kill them before people who don't have flying can get to the mobs. That alone is enough to force players to grind "rep" or treasure hunt when they don't want to do it.

It is not about value at all. It is about having a option being taken away that always was around. Now gated through a system that limits options for players.

This whole "Value" thing is not cutting. A mmo should have many paths to take for the same goals. Blizzard took a dump on options, and what we have now is a shiny brass turd.
01/05/2016 07:29 AMPosted by Teufelgott
And yet, you're still here.


Friends give me the gold to pay for my account. I got 6 months worth of time for free. Why? Because people like me. So now I just chill with friends have fun, and set people in line on the forum.
01/05/2016 01:20 AMPosted by Lòst
If you don't mind, would you mind explaining to me how some other options for unlocking it would be a bad thing?


I will. Flight is no longer needed in this game. Draenor is designed top to bottom as a ground game. Blizzard opened Pandora's Box with flight and found out that it won't go back in. So as a result, Flight is now a reward for doing the content as it was designed.

Flight is no longer needed in areas and is now just a fun perk you get to use if you put in the time. You can level to 100 through pets and dungeons and so you would never have to see most of Draenor. So to be able to do nothing in the world and see nothing in the world, but still be able to soar around it isn't something the devs want.

You'll just have to deal.
01/05/2016 07:35 AMPosted by Ràger
Ok, are you saying flying is not needed?


No, it's not needed. I love flying, but it's not strictly necessary for anything. We lived for however long from the beginning of WoD until whenever it was last year without it. People are living without it now. My wife still hasn't unlocked flying, and she's still plugging along just fine.

01/05/2016 07:35 AMPosted by Ràger
It is not about value at all. It is about having a option being taken away that always was around. Now gated through a system that limits options for players.


What are you on about here? When I said 'value' in my previous post, I was simply saying you have to make a personal choice in terms of how much you value the reward in this case (flight in WoD) versus the cost associated with it (content you don't want to do for whatever reason). The game asks you to make these types of choices *all the time*.

As far as it always being around goes, bummer. Yeah, the way you used to obtain flight was different in the past. It's changed now. That kind of stuff happens. Deal with it.

01/05/2016 07:35 AMPosted by Ràger
A mmo should have many paths to take for the same goals. Blizzard took a dump on options, and what we have now is a shiny brass turd.


Must it? Nah, that's nonsense. There's one way to get the Mythic Arch mount, and that's by killing Mythic Arch. Maybe I should be able to get that via pet battles, too! Wouldn't that be awesome? On second though, no.
Honestly, I wish Blizz had never even touched flight so we wouldn't be so vehemently divided on the issues concerning it. I see players attacking each other and can't help but wonder if this is exactly what Blizzard wants.
01/05/2016 07:36 AMPosted by Ràger
01/05/2016 07:29 AMPosted by Teufelgott
And yet, you're still here.


Friends give me the gold to pay for my account. I got 6 months worth of time for free. Why? Because people like me. So now I just chill with friends have fun, and set people in line on the forum.

So I guess they'd also give you the Gold for flying if it was ever sold? Say 250K?
01/05/2016 07:45 AMPosted by Ravensword
Honestly, I wish Blizz had never even touched flight so we wouldn't be so vehemently divided on the issues concerning it. I see players attacking each other and can't help but wonder if this is exactly what Blizzard wants.


I think you're giving them far too much credit on this. Has the flying 'debate' served as a bit of a convenient distraction from the overall craptasticness that is WoD? Sure. What's more likely, though - the same team that brought you said craptastic expansion also engineered an elaborate ruse in order to get players arguing amongst themselves or they simply lucked into it via no fault of their own?

I'm going with the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's also not as though people have forgotten about this should-have-been abortion of an expansion, either, so even if 'omg let's have them argue about flight' was the plan (lol) it didn't achieve the goal.
01/05/2016 07:35 AMPosted by Ràger
Ok, are you saying flying is not needed? Because when I see people complain all the time in chat, how flyers just swoop in on rare mobs and kill them before people who don't have flying can get to the mobs. That alone is enough to force players to grind "rep" or treasure hunt when they don't want to do it.


You're argument for flight being "needed" is a little silly.

The only swooping for rares that happens is in Tanaan. And if you're there you are doing to grind for rep for Pathfinder to which the rares don't die fast enough to miss if you're close enough to see them. The rest of the achievement can and should be finished while leveling. Acting insulted and offended that the lazy route was cut off is childish.
01/05/2016 07:53 AMPosted by Trystero
01/05/2016 07:45 AMPosted by Ravensword
Honestly, I wish Blizz had never even touched flight so we wouldn't be so vehemently divided on the issues concerning it. I see players attacking each other and can't help but wonder if this is exactly what Blizzard wants.


I think you're giving them far too much credit on this. Has the flying 'debate' served as a bit of a convenient distraction from the overall craptasticness that is WoD? Sure. What's more likely, though - the same team that brought you said craptastic expansion also engineered an elaborate ruse in order to get players arguing amongst themselves or they simply lucked into it via no fault of their own?

I'm going with the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's also not as though people have forgotten about this should-have-been abortion of an expansion, either, so even if 'omg let's have them argue about flight' was the plan (lol) it didn't achieve the goal.
I think it's a little bit of both. They lucked into it but they're not going to stop it from happening now. Supposedly they're just as divided on it.

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