Epic Battle Pet Stones in Legion

Pet Battles
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http://legion.wowhead.com/item=137627/immaculate-battle-stone#comments

I... don't think I like this at all. For serious pet collectors, this means we have to collect 700+ of these stones. I'm hoping there's other ways to make your pets epic, like continuing to get experience at level 25, like followers in WoD. Though personally, I'd prefer they not even add epic pets, or restrict them to specific pets.

What are your thoughts?
Leveling pets is da poop and so is upgrading pets.
If the term "Epic" is not purely cosmetic, then this is a huge mistake.
I'm hoping beyond hope these are just placeholders for non-soulbound "adds 25 levels to a pet" stones, that are rewards from the new tournament or something. (There's one for every family as well, if you look at "See Also")

EDIT: Not sure why this is being downvoted lol. I don't want epic battle pets, but I wouldn't mind seeing the +25 level stones be a bit more common than once every 1.5 months.

Plus, with those types of stones available for whatever new currency the new tournament has, it gives it prolonged longevity after you've collected the toys/pets from it. Obviously I would expect them to cost enough that you could only get one every week or two. (maybe even more). Just an alternative to just putting rare stones and +1 level stones in the things you can buy, without adding epic quality pets.
I lean towards no on epic pets and epic battlestones. If upgrading a pet to epic doesn't alter its stats and is only vanity, then I'm not as against it.

Still, would be annoying to have to collect 700+ stones.

But if the devs have a way for us to upgrade them without it being tedious and/or frustrating...then maybe I can be convinced that it's a good idea. Maybe.
If I had to choose between epic stones or a higher level cap, I'd choose the stones. But begrudgingly because I don't like the idea of either.

The nature of the pet battle system is grindy, and it attracts...well...grinders. People who WILL sit at their computer for hours a time to level multiple pets. Adding epic stones, even if they're difficult to get, is going to, well, it might get ugly for some people. Because there is an intrinsic "need" for their pets to be the best. It's the same allure that people have to EV train and breed for typings in pokemon.

On the one hand, I do think the battle pet system needs something fresh to make it new in Legion. So I can see why this might happen. But on the other, I think alternate methods should be explored first. Instead of stones that will drastically alter the current system, perhaps other things like stones that change the look of a pet permanently to another color palette? Reward people for participating in the system, and add something new, but not necessarily something that will demolish people's current pet lineups. And it would also allow people to get different looking/newish pets without them having to collect more, potentially helping ease the issue of the impending pet cat/ceiling.

All that said, we do need to expect that eventually there will be stuff added that shakes up the current pet battle game and that's okay. Should these stones get added, my hope is that pets would still revert down to a default rare status in things like PVP, or that only epic pets can be matched up against other epic pets. But the current matchmaking system doesn't support that, so that is why I worry.

But this is a long post for me to be making about a datamined item that may or may not actually make it into the game. Like the original ultimate battle training stone, it may just be a placeholder for testing. So people can just steamroll through certain things and make sure stuff like the bag/reward drops are working.

Edit: Another concern I just had/realized is the issue of power creep. Things like a new pet quality or more levels ends up generally providing artificial content that people eventually pay for in the form of power creep. So we upgrade our pets to epic now...then what? in two expansions will it be legendary? And after that will it be artifact? When you do that you eventually hit a brick wall. Regular WoW circumvents this with ilvls on gear, but even it still falls to this problem as we can see with the fact that we're going to be freaking level ONE HUNDRED AND TEN in the next expansion.

There's a reason other pet based RPG games do not add in things like this. Pokemon's level cap has been 100 for 25 years. They get around the inability to change things like that by adding content in different places. New pokemon, new typings, and even new battle changes (double, triple) like the mega-evolutions that come with strict rules in place to use them.

WoW is an MMORPG, but pet battles represent probably the purest aspect of RPGs in the actual game. Think on other RPGs. Final fantasy, Elder Scrolls, etc. all keep their levels consistent and capped at 100 so that they don't fall into the power creep trap.

There are ways to get around the traditional "what to do? add in more levels/another quality level" conundrum and it comes down to thinking out of the box to find other things for players to do without drastically changing the formula they're used to.

That's all I'm sayin'. I am very happy to see them adding new layers to this system for us, though. That is one thing I will always praise.
This terrifies me :O Hopefully if it is for pet quality then they are not too hard to obtain because come legion we will have 800+ Unique pets :S

I'm more interested in what the stat boosts will be if this does happen too, imagine the pvp problems too. Yikes
At the end of the month I will have all my pets blue quality and level 25 not long after that. I might cry if I have to get 700+ epic stones. lol
No thanks to higher level cap and epic stones unless all rare quality pets were automatically upgraded to epic and uncommon stones were upgraded to rare quality.

I, like many others, already have a massive ton of pets to level and upgrade. I don't want to start the chore all over again in Legion.

I. Will. Cry.

Edit: Changing my mind. I don't want a higher level cap or epic stones unless they are purely cosmetic only like Zepp said. Grinding your collection to 25 and making them rare is enough of a pain. No one want's to do the entire collection grind again.
I'm playing around with these in alpha and I can confirm they are not just cosmetic. My murkablo's stats went from 289 to 311 after using the stone.

But keep in mind these might just be in for testing purposes. They're on a special NPC that vendors charms and auto level 25 stones as well.
If that goes live I'll say goodbye to battle pets. There's no way I'll upgrade my entire collection.I hope they reconsider it.
If they are implemented, I want to see them be EXTREMELY rare- as in, you can only obtain one or two per account, and make the pet un-cage-able. If they're going to be a thing, let's make Epic pets something you develop an attachment to.

For the sake of reversing mistakes though, you should get the epic stone back if you release the pet. Essentially meaning you have one 'leader' of your pets at any one time. I want to see stronger pets, it's an exciting idea, but it HAS to be done right, or it destroys any ambitions any player might have.
Testing on Alpha: Deluxe Mystery Bag, "Contains at least one random family battle-training stone."

So assume you get at least one epic stone from this bag, which costs 200 Pet Charms (price subject to change??).... with 700+ pets in-game, you'd need ~140,000 Pet Charms to upgrade all of them to epic.

Should also mention that the epic stone you get from the bag is a family-specific stone. Need to upgrade your Humanoid but keep getting Mech stones? Tough luck, go farm 200 more charms and try again. Better hope RNG gods are on your side.

Stat comparison for rare and epic:

    Rare 25 Dust Bunny: 1400 HP, 227 Power, 357 Speed

    Epic 25 Dust Bunny: 1500 HP, 245 Power, 385 Speed


Still leaning towards no on epic pets idea....

Edit
02/18/2016 08:40 PMPosted by Amalythia
Should these stones get added, my hope is that pets would still revert down to a default rare status in things like PVP, or that only epic pets can be matched up against other epic pets.

Seconded. I don't even Pet PVP, but I would still want something to ensure epic pets don't impact PVP negatively.

02/18/2016 08:40 PMPosted by Amalythia
Another concern I just had/realized is the issue of power creep.

This is a really good point that I hope Blizzard takes into consideration.

On a different note, epic battlestones will pretty much make uncommon and rare stones worthless (not that uncommon battlestones aren't already....). I don't know about everyone else, but I've stocked up on battlestones in preparation for Legion. ...Only to find out that many of those stones will no longer be necessary. Feels bad.

Perhaps there needs to be an exchange rate for battlestones -- trade in X# of uncommon to receive a rare. Trade in X# of rare to receive an epic. Give those old, unwanted, lesser battlestones some use.

Edit #2
Have to wonder, how will epic pets affect old(er) content? Will previous Tamers get steamrolled by our epic pets? Will the difference between using a rare and epic pet on a Tamer fight be negligible?

If our pets are that much closer in stats to boss/elite pets, will content where we have to fight those become less of a challenge? Does that mean the ceiling will need to be raised even higher to ensure boss/elite pets are still challenging? Will we be fighting artifact NPCs?

Just some thoughts/questions running in my head. The thought of epic pets in Legion is really unnerving me.
My initial gut-instinct reaction to these is rejection.
Getting all of my pets to blue quality is already a serious project - I don't want to have to worry about trying to get all 700+ unique pets up to purple quality when Legion drops. It seems that a lot of us are feeling the same way about it. Pet battles are already pretty grindy, but I do it for the love of pets. Extending the grind (potentially indefinitely if they decide to make legendary pets obtainable somehow) just seems pointless.

Please, Blizzard, please rethink the idea of epic battle pets.
would like to see uncommon and rare pet stones be gone cause it doesn't feel rewarding to upgrade a pet from poor quality to uncommon, most of the time i don't use these 2 stones at all just delete them, even tho i have a tons of poor quality pets.

also maybe the rewards from the pet battle bag (from low lvl zones) can contains tokens of some sort, instead of poor quality cloth that worth 20 silvers

the achievement tab for pet battle need an update too
Testing on Alpha: Deluxe Mystery Bag, "Contains at least one random family battle-training stone."

So assume you get at least one epic stone from this bag, which costs 200 Pet Charms (price subject to change??).... with 700+ pets in-game, you'd need ~140,000 Pet Charms to upgrade all of them to epic.

Should also mention that the epic stone you get from the bag is a family-specific stone. Need to upgrade your Humanoid but keep getting Mech stones? Tough luck, go farm 200 more charms and try again. Better hope RNG gods are on your side.

Stat comparison for rare and epic:

    Rare 25 Dust Bunny: 1400 HP, 227 Power, 357 Speed

    Epic 25 Dust Bunny: 1500 HP, 245 Power, 385 Speed


Still leaning towards no on epic pets idea....

Edit
02/18/2016 08:40 PMPosted by Amalythia
Should these stones get added, my hope is that pets would still revert down to a default rare status in things like PVP, or that only epic pets can be matched up against other epic pets.


Seconded. I don't even Pet PVP, but I would still want something to ensure epic pets don't impact PVP negatively.

On a different note, epic battlestones will pretty much make uncommon and rare stones worthless (not that uncommon battlestones aren't already....). I don't know about everyone else, but I've stocked up on battlestones in preparation for Legion. ...Only to find out that many of those stones will no longer be necessary. Feels bad.

Perhaps there needs to be an exchange rate for battlestones -- trade it X# of uncommon to receive a rare. Trade in X# of rare to receive an epic. Give those old, unwanted, lesser battlestones some use.


Thank you for that info. This has a me a little worried but like some mentioned it could just be for alpha testing. Testing to see how epic stones work, which have been sitting around since 5.2 to throw in, and to test the communities reaction.

I still have to go with my initial idea of a baseline upgrade of all rares, pets and stones alike, and all uncommon items upgraded to rare, if epic quality is being made for players. There are not a lot of people who even bother with uncommon stones once they get into pets.
also blue looks better than purple, there can be a lot of rare pets but if it's epic then there should only be a few of them
Think of it this way. What's the difference if they are epic or rare as they are right now? Bigger stats? Do more damage while also taking more?

Big deal. You just prolonged pet battles for one or two extra useless rounds. Rather then leveling / upgrading pets in Legion, I would much rather see another type of pet battle system introduced. Bigger numbers are pointless.

Also, think of the PvP pet battlers out there. Those who farm a lot, and gather enough stones to upgrade a team for PvP battles, will have a dominant edge and will crush everyone. This will kill PVP Pet Battles.

New game modes would be ideal more so then this.
>_> I love the color purple (see mog) but we'll see how this all works out. I *just* got my pets to rare - never mind leveling them. /sigh
This would seriously devalue the work of all of us who have spent years getting 740+ pets to level 25 and rare. Player anger would be directly proportional to the amount of time a player had put into pet battles. Casual pet battlers really wouldn't care about this change, and the most hardcore pet batters (i.e., your biggest fans) would be the most upset. Don't do it.

(Edited for hyperbole.)

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