Epic Battle Pet Stones in Legion

Pet Battles
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I sent this in as suggestion/feedback a couple months ago, but all I've ever asked for regarding new content for Legion (and this is grindier than this, actually);

is Wild Caught Shiny pets. Like in Pokemon - I'd never do anything else in game ever again lol I'd just be exploring the world trying to catch my favorites in Shiny varieties.

A stone that did this (prob way easier to code?) is a really cool option. Just as long as it's not for *all* pets - because a lot of us have a prohibitive amount of pets - I mean I have ~850 pets, that'd be... well, I'd do it - but I'm not sure I'd be happy doing it. My OCD would be tickled, but do we want to design a game around people's OCD to 'completionism'?

I don't know, I have to add a caveat that I will do whatever you decide, because, battle pets <3 but from a pure QOL perspective, I just request respectfully that you consider limiting the # of 'epic shiny' stones we can collect/use. Maybe just a cap - you can collect 20 - so make sure you pick the right pets you want shiny OR, for coding purposes (pet models, etc) as others have said above - you can say "these 25 pets can be made prettier, here is how you go about that"

I'd be cool with that.
This is my perspective from the standpoint of a collector and not a competitive battler.

I don't think that cosmetic only vs other options will make a difference. Whether it's cosmetic only, level only, power level only or some combination thereof, those of us who collect will still make an effort to boost our pets. If it's related to power level, we'll boost the ones we have in our teams first and then focus on the ones we never use. If it's cosmetic, we'll boost the ones we like the most and focus on the rest later. But we'll still do it.

I don't think that barrier for pet battle entry is a big concern either, because that barrier already exists in the current system -- it would just be an additional level. The matchmaking system and the slight RNG to pet battling means that non-Epic pets could still be effective. If it's level related, the matchmaking system will match you up with players of the same level just like it does today. You won't have an amazing win/loss ratio but it won't be any worse than it is today with the current system.

My primary concern is the length of the grind because I'll feel compelled to do it. It might not be the first thing I do, I might not focus on it, but it will be an expansion-long goal that I'll work to and I'm sure many people feel the same way. I just don't want that grind to be an hour long every single day for 9-12 months like it was in MoP. If it's something like the Garrison system, where I can do a few battles on a few characters every day (with incentive [pets from bags]) and I have a fair shot at getting upgrade items, this would not annoy me. Especially if you could buy the upgrade items like you can buy upgrade stones in WoD from Pet Charms.

- Please factor in travel time when creating something like this. MoP trainers were okay but you could fly to them and use your own pathing system. WoD trainers were not fine because you could not fly and had to flight path to them and some of them aren't anywhere near a flight path. I did MoP trainers every day for probably a year. I've done maybe 20 WoD trainers total.
- Please keep in mind that some of us have over 700 pets. If we are able to do 1 a day that is almost 2 years of grinding. If we are able to do 2 a day that's almost a year of grinding. It needs to be a reasonable grind and a 2 year grind is not reasonable [See: Draenor Pet Brawler.........].
Blizzard thank you so much for taking the time to create more content to pet battlers.We can clearly see you didn't abandon us.That makes us feel like valuable customers. But unfortunately the epic stones will turn our fun side game into a torture. Just thinking about all the grind is already a nightmare. Please rethink this.
If this is implemented, I'll grind out the 700+ stones because of course I will. I would really rather it be limited to a cosmetic effect though. Having it impact battles just seems like another barrier to entry for anyone new to pet battles.

I would love to see epic stones enable pets that currently can't battle to fight. Blorp wants to smash.
They should totally make a pet battle "artifact" that is actually just a pet with the artifact tree (like the fishing pole) that you raise up from a hatchling. Then once you've unlocked all its traits it becomes "epic" in name/color only for the sake of your own achievement in training it, but it cannot directly battle.

Rather than be a straight up battle pet, It could do things like temporarily boost pet exp gain by 15%, or drop the cooldown on your team heal function in the pet journal, or teleport you to a random Legion master tamer for the daily. Just small things that improve QOL but don't demolish the core system.

IDK IDK. Just spitballing ideas here.
Maybe the Epic Stone could be used on my Journal instead of a pet to add 500 more slots!
I'm rather indifferent on whether epic pets get added, but, if they do, only rare pets should be allowed to be upgraded to epic to preserve the value of rare stones and not make people feel like all their work was for nothing.
On one hand, the writing on the wall about this, or something like it, has been there for a long time. Every patch I hold my breath while I wait for a new rarity stone or level 30 pets to be datamined.

The thing is, this doesn't really make for more compelling gameplay in general. Who would this change be trying to engage? People upthread have addressed issues of power creep & alienating new or infrequently battling players, which is absolutely true. This change will be unequivocally bad for newbies. The other end of the spectrum plays host to people who have already upgraded and raised to 25 every single pet. Those players will use their already-enormous stockpile of charms to upgrade their pets to epic within the first few weeks of an expansion and then be bored. This change may be good for them in that they'll feel more powerful, but because they can clearly already conquer every challenge laid at their feet it's kind of irrelevant. The people in the middle get the most benefit, in that maybe an upgraded this or that can help them overcome a challenge they've been stuck on. However, they'll still feel the power creep frustration of the newbies.

Just because a change is expected doesn't make it a good change.

To add a different perspective on the issue, from a selfish, don't-cry-for-me-Argentina standpoint this is going to make writing strats from here on out quite difficult. I have 3 real courses of action. 1 - I upgrade the pets I want and write strats assuming others upgrade the ones I choose. This alienates people who don't choose the same ones, and may fragment the community based on whose guides players choose first (or torpedo independent strat writers altogether). This will also widen the divide with newer players who just upgrade their favorite companion before looking up strats. "I used my stone on the wrong pet? well, I don't battle enough to get many more. May as well give up." 2 - I upgrade the pets I want and maintain a separate, rares-only stable to write strats. I entirely do not have time for this. 3 - just don't upgrade anything. This is my likeliest course of action, but it weakens whatever claim I might have as a pet battling authority and feels terrible as a player. Like I said, this is a somewhat selfish set of points to bring up as a strat writer, but I feel like this would be devastating to the community as a whole as well, which is why I bring it up.

I realize that the devs feel like they have to do something to make the game evolve, but I'm not sure that adding extra things to grind to an incredibly vast existing stable is the answer.
I would seriously be peeved if I had to make over 750 pets into epics and major peeved if I had to level over 225 favorites.

Blizz is already carrying forward with the follower garbage that took away so much pet battling time in WoD. Now a thought would be dump the followers and bring on the pet changes. I'd be on board with that.
02/19/2016 05:29 AMPosted by Amalythia
There's nothing wrong with bucking the current formula in WoW's main game to do stuff like this.

That was a nice post that may change my opinion somewhat. It's a much stronger argument than "I've already finished everything, I don't want to play any more!"

One of the nice things about the pet battle system is how it doesn't become obsolete as new stuff is added, like the rest of the game does. There's no need to push pet battles into planned obsolescence with raids and gear and all that.

That said, let's consider the reasons we visit old content and maybe see if there's some middle ground. This probably doesn't cover everything, but a few off the top of my head:

Leveling pets: Pets with epic stats would earn xp at the same rate as rares. The leveling content would be a little more trivial. Old content would be equally valuable for leveling, but not as enjoyable. It's not as engaging when you can spam a move and be guaranteed a win.

Gathering stones and other consumables: More powerful pets would be able to kill stuff faster/easier, making old content a little easier for getting flawless stones. It may even be more compelling to go back to our garrison to farm pet charms every day if it's easier than it will be to get consumables in Legion. But again, not as engaging.

Getting pets not already earned while the content was current: Depending on how difficult it is to get epic stones, this may benefit new players as a "catch up" if they can do the beasts of fable for the pandas with less optimal pets but at epic level.

Some of the fights are fun in themselves, like the Celestial Tournament, and we want to see how new pets compare: This would be hurt the most by having epic pets. It's fun to go back to the tournament or a difficult fight and see how a new pet works. If pets are more powerful then it's no fun and you're only going to go there for one of the other reasons, if at all.

So it can be argued that old content won't become completely obsolete, but it will become less fun and less engaging. That's reason enough to hesitate adding epic stats.

Could we compromise with epic pets only having a couple points of stats more than their rare version? Like 5% of the increase that a uncommon->rare gets? A very steep diminishing return that would not change their overall power compared to the rare version, but would at least be a bit more than cosmetic.
I do like the idea of epic pets, simply because it's *more* to do with the pets we've collected and leveled. I know there will be plenty of new pets in Legion, as well as a few new pet-related features, but that won't be enough to last pet fanatics through the whole expansion. Upgrading all your pets to epic actually might, regardless of method.

I can see how having an additional increase in pet stats might have an imbalancing impact in pet pvp, so that would have to be addressed carefully. If cosmetic, I don't see any problem at all - people who felt like doing it could do it, people who didn't like it could choose not to and they aren't adversely affected in any way.

Personally, I loved collecting, don't mind tamer dailies and similar repetitive activities, and loathed leveling. While I welcome creative new ways to approach all aspects of the game, the only thing I'd hate to see chosen as the epic-pet unlock method would be further leveling beyond 25.

Anyway, epic pets = yes please. Make it difficult or time consuming so that people can't store up charms before Legion releases and then suddenly zoom their whole collection to epic on release day, that's fine, I just want more to do with the collection I have.
02/19/2016 03:02 AMPosted by Vibah
Someone earlier said they should be super hard to get. As a collector and someone who wants to have all pets at the best level / rarity this would suck. It would just be an insane grind.
Atleast the pets we have now we could capture most of them at Rare which was actually fun to do.. well for a while. But having to actually earn every stone would be downright Mindnumbing.

If it happens there better be a damn good Acievement associated lol

Yeah, like award me Tyreal!
The concept of epic pets is cool, but the reality is that it'd probably just be a lot of work. You guys may have added too many pets already to make level cap or higher upgrade levels a fun addition.

Granted, if there's a reasonable way to obtain the epic upgrade stones and they don't de-level a pet they are used on, it might be OK.
02/19/2016 06:58 AMPosted by Amalythia
They should totally make a pet battle "artifact" that is actually just a pet with the artifact tree (like the fishing pole) that you raise up from a hatchling. Then once you've unlocked all its traits it becomes "epic" in name/color only for the sake of your own achievement in training it, but it cannot directly battle.

Rather than be a straight up battle pet, It could do things like temporarily boost pet exp gain by 15%, or drop the cooldown on your team heal function in the pet journal, or teleport you to a random Legion master tamer for the daily. Just small things that improve QOL but don't demolish the core system.

IDK IDK. Just spitballing ideas here.

I've read every post in the thread and there has been a ton of really strong suggestions and feedback but this is the one that I personally like the best. I think it adds an additional layer of content on top of the normal pet tamers and tournament that will be implemented in Legion and all of those traits listed are convenient but not game-breaking.

Plus, with the way Artifact skins currently work, it would be a great way to make everyone happy by ensuring there are a variety of pets to raise. Something cute, something spiky, something for everybody. It would also open up tons of options for bonus quests, like as your pet is out journeying with you he finds a shiny rock, picks it up, and wow it's a quest item for a secret pet battle! Lots of options to explore.

I also just want to throw my hat in for 100% not wanting Epic upgrades (if they increase stats) or a level increase. It doesn't add any depth to the pet battle system.
*edit - want to delete my comment but don't know how*
02/19/2016 07:05 AMPosted by Zepp
Maybe the Epic Stone could be used on my Journal instead of a pet to add 500 more slots!

Or 1000...to protect against the next couple expansions....like our garrison cache...we can upgrade that...why not the pet journal.

Cap 2000!

Buff Peddlefeet.
02/19/2016 07:05 AMPosted by Zepp
Maybe the Epic Stone could be used on my Journal instead of a pet to add 500 more slots!

Not a bad idea. We need more pet battle content for sure but starting the grind all over again once you've finish getting your collection to 25 and rare isn't the answer unless it's cosmetic.

I think it's simply too late to add in epic stones as a stat increase. If they were added back in 5.2 I think we'd all have a very different opinion.
Alright so now that Feasel's latest tweet has shifted the discussion away from epic stones giving better stats/levels and just cosmetic effects I felt like I should post again.

I'd stil be in favor of epic stones NOT going live if all they do is add cosmetic changes. There's a couple reasons for this:

1) Lots of OCD pet collectors will still feel compelled to upgrade as many/all of their pets to epic as possible. I know having those non-combat pets that were green or level 1 was irritating for me personally, and for the short time you could upgrade them to rare/lv25 was nice. Recent patch broke/fixed this and now they will stay unleveled/green/etc. I don't know that I personally would sleep over it but it would bother me some and others quite a bit more.

2) We already have some toys that add cosmetic effects. Pet biscuits, Fel Blossoms, w/e item that slips my mind that makes them sparkle are already in game as toys. Since we already have items that add cosmetic effects why release stones that do it permanently? I currently wouldn't want the cosmetic effects available to be permanent on any of my pets.

3) If all the stones do is add permanent cosmetic effects, I feel like it shouldn't make your pet "epic". I also feel like there should be an accompanying item that removes the cosmetic effect should you change your mind in the future. This fixes the majority of the problem imo: prevents current "all done" collectors from feeling like they need to re-do their collections, it gives players that want to change their pets appearance without carrying heaps of biscuits/blossoms/etc in their bags the option to do so , and it also allows you to change the appearance back if you decide you don't like how you just made your impossible to replace Netherwhelp/Grunty/etc look silly.

Stick them on the vendor for a cheap amount of gold like most cosmetic toys, not 200 charms a pop, add in an item that removes the effect and be done :D Just my thoughts.
I'm actually really surprised that the concept of a new pet quality is so disliked. It's been a core component to the battle pet experience since it was introduced. Why wouldn't Blizzard iterate on that in the new expansion?

If epic quality pets are the only thing they're changing in legion, I will be very disappointed. But if it's in addition to real content made for pet lovers, I'm all for it.

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