Druids are OP

Druid
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Both Feral and Restoration specs need nerfing. Major nerfing.
I will be happy to admit that the feral spec is extremely OP against bad players.
04/10/2016 01:07 PMPosted by Hibernator
I will be happy to admit that the feral spec is extremely OP against bad players.


what can good players do against feral? And no, 'stunning the feral' is not a valid response.
04/10/2016 01:09 PMPosted by Vayris
what can good players do against feral?


Feral is amazing at 1v1. Stop trying to beat it 1v1? Find some teammates to peel for you.
04/10/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Foxhoof
Feral is amazing at 1v1. Stop trying to beat it 1v1? Find some teammates to peel for you.


what about 3v3? the thing is, if i have teammates, so does the feral.. unless your suggesting go at the feral 3v1?
04/10/2016 01:09 PMPosted by Vayris
04/10/2016 01:07 PMPosted by Hibernator
I will be happy to admit that the feral spec is extremely OP against bad players.


what can good players do against feral? And no, 'stunning the feral' is not a valid response.


Are you asking me how to play your class?
04/10/2016 01:34 PMPosted by Hibernator
Are you asking me how to play your class?


hey if you have some magic tip that no one else in the game knows about on how to beat ferals, i will gladly ask for your help.

i just dont think you do...
Is your l$d having trouble with rogues and feral?
04/10/2016 01:36 PMPosted by Vayris
04/10/2016 01:34 PMPosted by Hibernator
Are you asking me how to play your class?


hey if you have some magic tip that no one else in the game knows about on how to beat ferals, i will gladly ask for your help.

i just dont think you do...


Magic trick? Me? You're the mage.
i dont play l/s/d

its too boring... much prefer fire/ele/disc

but tbh, any rogue comp should do well against any ele comp. rogues are just too disruptive.

ferals are just ferals. shapeshifting, immune to cc, incarn stuns, blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc. you've heard it all before.
04/10/2016 01:54 PMPosted by Vayris
you've heard it all before.


Hey, we agree on something!
Guys, this is a pretty old topic. I guess it'll never be settled.

If you look at the ladders ferals are neither overrepresented nor underrepresented. They're fine with respect to overall balance, when players know what they are doing, and are in an organized match.

It is true that ferals are pretty damned good at dueling. That is because our defenses work by via healing. Healing > mitigation in 1v1s, mitigation > healing in every other situation. Mitigation scales up as more people beat on you, while healing doesn't scale at all. It's OP in duels but meh in 2's and mostly useless in 3s and 5s. The game is not tuned for duels. So yes, 1v1 you have to be pretty good, but if you're in a team and you focus the feral they fall over pretty quickly.

It is also true that ferals are strong when the opponent doesn't know how to play his class. When a feral is up against players that know how to shut down BT, PS, rejuv, etc. then we get blown up soooo easily, a feral really has to be on his toes to survive more than a few seconds.

And yes if you are a keyboard turner we will eat you alive. If you have a clue how to kite (or close if you're melee) then you can put up a pretty good fight.
04/10/2016 03:42 PMPosted by Hibernator
If you have a clue how to kite (or close if you're melee) then you can put up a pretty good fight.


its not that people dont know how to kite a feral, its just that only like one or two specs its even possible for... most specs just arent designed with anything close to the mobility that ferals have.

04/10/2016 03:42 PMPosted by Hibernator
So yes, 1v1 you have to be pretty good, but if you're in a team and you focus the feral they fall over pretty quickly.


you have to apply the same logic to both sides... if its a team vs feral, yeah, the feral is going to get overwhelmed by superior numbers, but if its team vs team (like a 3v3 match) no, the feral doesnt flop over.
Druid is a master class. I popped all my CDs and they tanked through with only 10% health loss. Even if they popped their defensive I would think they should take more than 10% damage, but no, their healing is OP even in feral form. If there is actually a way for paladin to kite the druid, oh wait there isn't. Unless I go for empowered seal, of which I don't like to do. Why would I change my talent just to duel someone? That's like throwing golds to win, nope. nope nope. I would also like to mention restoration druid is damn hard to kill. Even without being peeled they would root, kite, shift, sprint, displace and it would take forever to get one down. Their healings are also ridiculous. they easily top BG heals and their healing casts are almost instant. That is the very definition of OP. Feral Druid > Ret Paladin. In term of survivability, restoration druid > holy pally.
04/10/2016 03:42 PMPosted by Hibernator
If you have a clue how to kite (or close if you're melee) then you can put up a pretty good fight.


its not that people dont know how to kite a feral, its just that only like one or two specs its even possible for... most specs just arent designed with anything close to the mobility that ferals have.


I'll agree it's pretty hard, but if you time it right a mage can definitely kite a feral (boy it is irritating). Same for a good hunter, Boomkins have just as much mobility as ferals. Monks arguably have more. Etc. It does require skill of course.


04/10/2016 03:42 PMPosted by Hibernator
So yes, 1v1 you have to be pretty good, but if you're in a team and you focus the feral they fall over pretty quickly.


you have to apply the same logic to both sides... if its a team vs feral, yeah, the feral is going to get overwhelmed by superior numbers, but if its team vs team (like a 3v3 match) no, the feral doesnt flop over.

Nah, there's a difference. If you 3v1 a feral and ignore the other two enemies, that cat will die pretty damned quick. He has no mitigation to speak of really. On the other hand, if I 3v1 a mage he can just ice block. Rogue can vanish. Lock has dark bargain. Monk can karma. Etc. If we 3v1 a hunter with deterrence up, that's just an opportunity for you to nuke everybody because they're not causing any damage whatsoever.

That is my whole point-- ferals need to be able to heal themselves to survive, and those heals will not keep up with a 3v1 The other specs have mitigation spells that will protect them from every enemy that is beating on them.
I'll agree it's pretty hard, but if you time it right a mage can definitely kite a feral (boy it is irritating)


if hes fire, in a 1v1, then maybe, but not in 3v3.

Same for a good hunter, Boomkins have just as much mobility as ferals. Monks arguably have more. Etc. It does require skill of course.


a good hunter cant kite a feral. make sure your using your kick as another gap closer...

and boomkins dont have as much mobility, they'll take displacer beast instead of wild charge so you get 2 charges per displacer, and they lack skull bash as a gap closer.

i definitely dont agree that monks have more. just burn a PS proc on a root and theyre screwed.

04/11/2016 09:32 AMPosted by Hibernator
That is my whole point-- ferals need to be able to heal themselves to survive, and those heals will not keep up with a 3v1


your point is freaking stupid then. no class can live in a 3v1.... mage wont live, warlocks wont live, hunters wont live... det, block and bargain might delay the inevitable for a few seconds but no mage is going to 3v1.
There's no reason to be a jerk, V. I usually like your threads and your comments up until the point where you start losing your cool.

if hes fire, in a 1v1, then maybe, but not in 3v3.
Yeah you're mostly right, Damn I hate fighting fire mages,


and boomkins dont have as much mobility, they'll take displacer beast instead of wild charge so you get 2 charges per displacer, and they lack skull bash as a gap closer.


Why does a boomkin want closers? Weird comment.


your point is freaking stupid then. no class can live in a 3v1.... mage wont live, warlocks wont live, hunters wont live... det, block and bargain might delay the inevitable for a few seconds but no mage is going to 3v1.


I'm thinking a hunter with deterrence will live a lot longer than a feral :) I realize ice block isn't a panacea, you need to rely on a few peels from your teammates too. With feral I die before they can even react. I have to be very, very careful not to get dogpiled or it's GG.

Anyway, if all your arguments are correct, please explain to me why the ladders aren't dominated by cats.
04/11/2016 10:57 AMPosted by Hibernator
I usually like your threads and your comments up until the point where you start losing your cool.


if your talking about being able to 3v1... thats just ... stupid... no spec should be able to 3v1... that would be the definition of overpowered if they could.

04/11/2016 10:57 AMPosted by Hibernator
Anyway, if all your arguments are correct, please explain to me why the ladders aren't dominated by cats.


enh is even stronger for a melee. so something like kittycleave war/feral/x works better if you swap that feral for an enh and run turbo.

the only comp i think that works better with a feral than with an enh atm is hunter/healer as junglecleave instead of beastcleave, but hunters themselves arent exactly the strongest right now so junglecleave isnt as prevalent as it could be.

even something like l/s/d as affliction/feral/rshaman was insanely overtuned for a while, but then enh came along and kind of replaced the feral and now we see a good amount of aff/enh/rdruid instead.

and even if feral is overrall on the weaker side of things, you can still have aspects of your toolkits that arent balanced. look at dks, something like deathsiphon is just overtuned for dps. in 2's or 3's they can just survive for ages by deathsiphon healing themselves... but no one would claim that dks overrall are too strong.
04/11/2016 10:57 AMPosted by Hibernator
I usually like your threads and your comments up until the point where you start losing your cool.


if your talking about being able to 3v1... thats just ... stupid... no spec should be able to 3v1... that would be the definition of overpowered if they could.


Can't say I disagree. Is that the problem? You're 3v1ing against ferals and losing?

I think (if we are talking sanity now) the idea in 3s is that you pick a kill target and try to kill him-- 3v1-- before you get peeled. Ferals as far as I can tell are almost always the kill target. At least it sure feels that way from the receiving end.

With other specs they have defensives that make it pretty hard to kill them in that situation. You get sheeped, cloned, etc, before the defensives wear off. With feral you can get him down a lot faster. It's not a black and white thing of course, but my point continues to stand, that ferals have to rely on heals, which will not scale up with more people beating on you, Ice block in comparison will provide 100% mitigation against 2,3, even 100 enemies. Now in a 1v1, our heals are more than adequate-- we can heal faster than we take damage in most cases-- which is why ferals shine in duels.

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