Please Do Not Remove the Legendary Ring Quest

General Discussion
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03/30/2016 12:22 PMPosted by Ornyx
In your opinion, why does this add frustration?


My personal story of the cloak. I had just gotten done with chapter one. My pc blew up. Kids and home came first so I was gone a bit. When I was able to play again, I got the pleasure of finding the quest in my log, a gem in my bag, and a story I can never see the end of.

That's where the frustration comes in. Sometimes things happen. Should people miss out on entire expansions worth of story because they didn't play current content at the pace of release? What about the guilds that progress at their own pace? They lose out because they want to complete each tier in order and didn't make the developers enrage timer? Not saying it applies to the ring, unless you start playing shortly before Legion drops, but what about the next one? What happens when the time between implemented and no longer available is perfect raid lockouts? Miss a week and now you never finish. Easy example; Imagine you just started playing, found out the ring is going away, so you burn as hard as you can to try and see the story. The final raid lockout you see 32/33 tomes, you never finish it because RNG said better luck next week, and blizzard said there is no next week.

Other old legendary items I can go back for and work on. Finished Dragonwrath, working on Shadowmourn, but the quest chain for the cloak is just gone for no reason beyond "we deleted it" and the ring will join it.

Removal of the quest lines is nothing more than "stay subbed or else".
03/31/2016 03:13 AMPosted by Kyx


Removal of the quest lines is nothing more than "stay subbed or else".


If that is the only reason why is that a bad thing ? Don't you think it improves all our game play to have more people playing throughout the expansion - not just that big influx of people at the start ?
03/31/2016 02:49 AMPosted by Qant
Just stopping by to post this http://imgur.com/cSkpG6S


There you go - the ring story in one pic.
03/31/2016 03:24 AMPosted by Dis
03/31/2016 03:13 AMPosted by Kyx


Removal of the quest lines is nothing more than "stay subbed or else".


If that is the only reason why is that a bad thing ? Don't you think it improves all our game play to have more people playing throughout the expansion - not just that big influx of people at the start ?


No, I don't think it improves gameplay when you attempt to force people to play throughout an expansion as a definition of "being there when it happened." I'm not saying Blizz does this, but it's what you're suggesting. Gameplay is best defined by the individual and removal of content removes some gameplay for some players.

03/31/2016 03:26 AMPosted by Dis
03/31/2016 02:49 AMPosted by Qant
Just stopping by to post this http://imgur.com/cSkpG6S


There you go - the ring story in one pic.


Simply linking that picture as a way of having people experience the story of the legendary ring doesn't do the story justice. I'm not saying the story of the ring was particularly spectacular when compared to the cloak, but the ring is part of an epic storyline that takes place over time. Even if someone were to complete it two expansion from now if it gets left in, they still have raid lockouts and RNG to contend with to allow that story to unfold slowly. No picture can accurately represent the story.
I think its really good to have some limited rewards for people who completed content while current, but I don't understand why out of all the things they could make a limited reward, Blizzard has chosen to do it with these legendaries.

The legendaries are one of the worst rewards to remove because:
(1) the quest lines impact expansion lore
(2) they are not account wide, which means they aren't an enduring reward if you swap mains
(3) these legendaries are not prestige based as obtaining them is a simple grind
(4) the ring isn't even visual, so its useless outside of something like Timewalking and its not even very good in time walking

I don't understand why they are willing to remove a whole quest line and legendary but they aren't willing to remove small things which are more prestige based like the titles for clearing Mythic raids. It would make a lot more sense to me to remove things like the title for clearing a Mythic raid, similar to how lots of elite pvp rewards are removed at the end of each season.

(1) Removing a title doesn't remove playable content like a quest line
(2) Titles are account wide so its a more enduring reward
(3) Titles like that are prestige based. These titles become meaningless later on when they are not removed because they no longer represent a feat that required skill and effort anymore. The ring, in contrast, would be just as much if not more of a grind in the future, so its prestige doesn't change very much over time.
(4) Titles are purely visual, you can use them all the time without impacting anything else
03/31/2016 03:24 AMPosted by Dis
If that is the only reason why is that a bad thing ? Don't you think it improves all our game play to have more people playing throughout the expansion - not just that big influx of people at the start ?


In my opinion it is a bad thing. Real life happens, and when it does, should that person miss the entire story for the expansion they paid for?

Looking at your achievements, imagine if you could only do current content. No going back for old raids to get eaten by a big tentacle god, no finding out if you were prepared, not realizing how many setbacks have hit raid bosses, and open world vs raid; many of the cata quests make no sense without firelands and the related quest chains in Hyjal. MoP has a glaring hole in the story with the cloak chain gone and WoD is going to meet the same fate. With the ring chain gone WoD is nothing more than random questing for who knows what reason and dungeons that have no purpose beyond XP.

As to the more people playing: playing because we want to, because there's something there to keep us logging in, is vastly different than us playing because if we don't we can't see the expansion.

Somewhere it was said in blue that players are cyclical, by that statement, wouldn't time gated content be more reason NOT to resub? Why buy an expansion you can't play out?

Best suggestions I've seen so far: Make the post-legion ring legendary epic, give a FoS/title to current completion, or some similar adjustment. If someone starting in legion wants to go back or a guild wants to run it for a new member they should be able to.

There is NO reason to completely remove content unless it had server level impact such as black bug for AQ or the game itself changed enough to warrant deletion such as the BS with naxx/Zandalar Tribe.
Would it not be possible to keep the quest in the game but remove the actual legendary item. My understanding is people don't care as much about obtaining an outdated legendary as they do about losing the lore associated therewith.
03/30/2016 01:05 PMPosted by Aenistris
Expansions don't adjust the out-of-date zones; they introduce new areas.


Cata texted me last night saying you're an idiot.
03/29/2016 10:33 PMPosted by Sages
What does bother me is that you are removing this content not because of technical reasons, not because of lore reasons, only just because you believe these are to honored as a status symbol.


Tinfoil hat time maybe but I believe they started doing this trying to get people to stay subbed and get the items.

Kinda like the whole "Limited Time Only" thing that retailers like to use.
There is a case to keep the legendary questline because, it is extra content for people to do if they're bored.

It means LFR from WoD will still have people.

Unless, that is the reason why you are removing it, because you want to move people from WoD LFR to Legion LFR.
Let me first say that I have completed every legendary in the game save for atiesh which was removed well before my time. Thus, having experienced the whole cross section of legendary experiences to date i feel i maybe uniquely qualified to make the following points:

1) I have experienced gaining legendaries that a few people got and actively helped others get them whilst current - and then went back myself to in a later expansion to get (dragonwrath / fangs / shadowmourne).

2) I have experienced getting and the joy of making thunder fury / glaives / hand of rag / valynr long after it was not current

3) I got cloak and rings whilst current

4) i was ineligible for aitish cause it was removed.

Regarding 1) - the thing that makes those legendaries special at the time was the fact that they were only INITIALLY obtainable by lets face it - heroic raiders (mythic by today's terminology) - sure some you could obtain over time but you were forced to work as a team - you did it for the betterment of the guild and were happy to do so. I loved being able to help that mage out or that DPS officer out - knowing full well that one day i would go back and get it myself - the story was epic and the fact you had to earn / wait for it made it so. The fact that i COULD NOT get it whilst current made it feel even more special - i didn't feel entitled - i felt happy for the person selected to get the legendary and wanted them to succeed in doing so and felt part of something to help do that. Some of my BEST memories in the game is the guild screenshot of the guild DPS officer getting shaddowmourne then killing LK so he could finish the quest - pure awesome and TRULLY legendary.

Regarding 2) Given the history of the older weapons and the legendary status it provided - makes people want to go back and get them even though there is next to no story - I still !! make 1000's of gold selling mats for thunderfurry many expansions later - and farmed BT for over 12 months - it was something to do and great for tmog and people still respect you fro doing so. - AND now you can use for timewalking ;)

Regarding 3) Whilst the quest lines and cut scenes are impressive, it is sad that a giant hole in the stories of these expacs now exist - new players cant go back and experience it (you have to consult the nobble tube to see it) - EVERYONE getting the legendary whilst current does not make it legendary - there is no status for having them - its LFR obtainable at the time - i'm embarrassed to wear 'legend of pandaria' - the story was epic and the legendary item feels very purple to me (not orange). It became a mandatory item to have not a 'special ' item -. even now it just doesn't feel right - i don't feel the legendary status surrounding them other then the story (which WILL BE MISSED for future players) that comes with group content aka commitment / respect / teamwork / hard work / that wrath and cata legendaries provided. To me something feels really missing from the game for giving EVERYONE the ring and cloak only whilst current.

Regarding 4) Regarding 4 - if atiesh q line was re-added i would go and do it in a heart beat. It was before my time and whilst i don't like it, i accept it . Atiesh is unique in that it was hard to get AND removed and so feels even EXTRA legendary - in fact you could say it feels very artefact to me (pre legion artefact). years form now - will people say the same about the ring or cloak - i don't think so. - simply 'beeing there aka 'beeing subed' MEANS NOTHING.

So to sum up - I feel the wrath / cata model was best but the MOP / WOD q lines in of itself (making it last whole expansion is not a bad idea - just poorly implemented). If the idea is to make people stay subbed by making them upgrade the legendary all expansion - IT HASNT WORKED. - sub numbers are down. Keep it relevant for 1-2 tiers - make it hard to get again (or selective like class / role) and people WILL go back and do it - bring back the sense of team work the game is badly needing right now and the scarsity and make legendaries legendary again!
Deleted - a 2nd point about achievement dates already covered by Blue earlier and i disagree.
Well my closing argument is, that it's better to keep more content in the game than to remove it...

See, doing legendary quests for me, are FUN and give my toons goals. They are a thing to do, that helps keep the game interesting. A final thing to do when bored is to set an alt a goal to get a legendary quest done. That's why they should stay in the game imo.
When expansions drag out, and the shiny new content has long lost its luster, I go back and do things like Archaeology and obtain older items or achievements. If there is anything that should be far from the thoughts of designers at this stage in the current expansion, it should be removing things to do in the game. Players like my friends and I are already hanging on by a thread, looking for things to do; It would be nice if at this point of Legion there was at least the option to have the WoD story and content intact.

Removing content should probably be an exception made for a good technical reason, and it would probably be an easier pill to swallow if the conversation started with that.
...
Achievement dates are a thing.


In this case, I'm not sure a date makes for an argument on the side of the players who put effort into obtaining the items.

---

Again, thanks for the feedback so far! I'm planning to spring up a conversation about the questlines themselves, since I know players here have shared concerns more about losing the story, and less about losing the Legendary.


How about this as an idea? Make the MOP cloak and the WOD ring account-wide when the pre-patch launches. Anyone who earned one on one character can now buy the cloak/ring on any character.

And then leave the WOD ring questline in, and restore the complete MOP cloak questline, with the caveat that you can't actually get the item anymore if you don't already have it.

That would allow people to experience the story if they haven't, and use the cloak/ring on any character if they ever earned it on one. The cloak/ring will be useful in the future if MOP and WOD content ever goes into Timewalking also.
For the record, I think keeping the quest line is a good idea as well. And as someone who has done the full quest line on two characters, I really wouldn't mind players being able to obtain the ring in later expansions.

The fact that blizzard wants to take it out so people who obtained it in warlords have "bragging rights" is silly. Breeding that kind of thought process is what's ruining the community in this game.
03/31/2016 03:24 AMPosted by Dis
...

If that is the only reason why is that a bad thing ? Don't you think it improves all our game play to have more people playing throughout the expansion - not just that big influx of people at the start ?


No, I don't think it improves gameplay when you attempt to force people to play throughout an expansion as a definition of "being there when it happened." I'm not saying Blizz does this, but it's what you're suggesting. Gameplay is best defined by the individual and removal of content removes some gameplay for some players.


There is nothing forced about it. They told us at the beginning of this expansion the ring was only going to be available for this expansion and it was up to us to decide whether or not we put in the time this expansion to get it. I don't think it is a good thing for them to cave into pressure now at this point in time and reverse that decision, their credibility just goes right out the door when they do that. I myself would be a little annoyed since I actually stayed subbed to do that ring - I could have spent that money on something else.

Do you consider blizzard is FORCING you to do the timewalking dungeons when they come up, or the pet battle event when it comes up ? Most people don't consider that being forced. I am afraid to look at your armory because I am afraid I will get into this raider discussion again.

I have been playing this game for 6 years and there is lots and lots of content in this game, people are not going to miss a couple of questlines and really I can't believe people are using this argument. These people complaining mostly didn't play in these expansions they have an entire expansions' worth of content to catch up on.
03/31/2016 06:48 AMPosted by Vralok
How about this as an idea? Make the MOP cloak and the WOD ring account-wide when the pre-patch launches. Anyone who earned one on one character can now buy the cloak/ring on any character.

And then leave the WOD ring questline in, and restore the complete MOP cloak questline, with the caveat that you can't actually get the item anymore if you don't already have it.

That would allow people to experience the story if they haven't, and use the cloak/ring on any character if they ever earned it on one. The cloak/ring will be useful in the future if MOP and WOD content ever goes into Timewalking also.


I like this idea. I don't believe it's the best, but I think it satisfies Blizzard's idea of player prestige while also letting players experience the quest line. I think to avoid the potential complaints about players "buying" a legendary for gold, just re-enable the quest lines and let players experience the lore as it was, legendary and all.

I myself would be a little annoyed since I actually stayed subbed to do that ring - I could have spent that money on something else.

Do you consider blizzard is FORCING you to...


You're contradicting yourself here. I know Blizzard isn't forcing me to do anything, however you clearly appear to feel forced into staying subbed to complete the content.

03/31/2016 06:56 AMPosted by Dis
and really I can't believe people are using this argument. These people complaining mostly didn't play in these expansions they have an entire expansions' worth of content to catch up on.


Just because you don't like the argument doesn't mean you can ignore its logic. And what does the amount of content a player missed have to do with anything? There have been tons of great ideas in this thread about how people care about the lore in this game and how removing it literally takes away from potential gameplay instead of enriching it. Keep lore content intact!
Removing the Legendary Ring Quest removes a big main part of the story from Warlord's of Draenor content. If they wish to remove the reward, that is understandable (albeit a poor attempt to make the ring rare in the long run since it doesn't matter because the ring will probably not work post level 100 ) however, removing the quest line is removing one big chunk of content of the already relatively low content of an expansion.

Blizzard fans and customers have paid the highest for any expansion ever with WoD, and comparatively it has the least content with only originally two tiers and three raids. Now you want to remove content that players have paid for and will have to pay for in order to play Legion. That is not ok. It's frustrating from a paying perspective first of.

Secondly, You are also removing content that explains how you, the player, grows strong to beat Guldan's army and eventually archimonde. Removing the ring quest will lower important story telling for the expansion

Thirdly, there are people who will not buy Legion right off the bat, because maybe they wish to enjoy draenor first and then move to Legion. This is a very niche small number, but according to Blizzard's recent philosophy, if it bothers at least one person (Tracer's butt) then they take these small minority into consideration and remove anything that could be offensive because they care about each and every single one of your customers. This is the same deal. If you care about your customers in equal care, you should not remove the Legendary ring questline for those small few to be able to enjoy Draenor's storyline

Lastly, It is harmless if the legendary quest line stays. If people want to do it, let them do it. If the reward is removed, it shouldn't harm anyone. If anything it is more content people can play with after they visited Legion content or are waiting for raid times. Why would you remove content from a game that deeply needs it during content-development times?

Please re-evaluate your choice of removing the Legendary Quest Line, if you do really listen to feedback.
If you agree, please give this post a like.

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