So the garrison table is back in class halls.

General Discussion
Prev 1 73 74 75 211 Next
04/12/2016 02:23 PMPosted by Elrathien
I'm noticing mods are starting to delete posts they find "offensive to their vision" already. :/


Spam is offensive to my vision.

This thread is uncapped so that there doesn't need to be spam.
04/12/2016 02:12 PMPosted by Rrayy
04/11/2016 08:05 AMPosted by Duglacks
Goddammit Blizzard can't you understand that the people that left had left because they wanted an MMO game and not a single player?The reason 8 MILLION people left was because the MMO part of MMORPG doesn't EXIST anymore.Sure there are raids, sure there are rated battlegrounds, but they all take place in an instance.If people wanted to play FARMVILLE they would just login to Facebook and PLAY FARMVILLE INSTEAD OF WOW.
PEOPLE PAY $14.99 a month for WOW not FARMVILLE.Why are you still sticking with the Garrison idea? IT IS A FAILURE PEOPLE WANT AN MMO NOT A SINGLE PLAYER RPG IF THEY WANTED A SINGLE PLAYER RPG THEY WOULD BE PLAYING SKYRIM OR SOMETHING ELSE NOT WOW.Wake up blizzard you're losing your subscribers and you're ignoring valuable feedback.Wake up before it's too late.
What a stupid post. People leave the game for all kinds of reasons. Saying they all left for one reason and the reason being your opinion stated as fact is just ignorant.


Yes they do leave for all reasons but a lot and I would suspect the vast majority left WOD because it was just bad because logic and WOW's history illustrates this, people dont leave when its good.
04/12/2016 02:25 PMPosted by Greybèard
04/12/2016 02:12 PMPosted by Rrayy
...What a stupid post. People leave the game for all kinds of reasons. Saying they all left for one reason and the reason being your opinion stated as fact is just ignorant.


Yes they do leave for all reasons but a lot and I would suspect the vast majority left WOD because it was just bad because logic and WOW's history illustrates this, people dont leave when its good.


I left because of lack of flight and came back when they had a plan to reintroduce. Been here since happily paying 15 a month. I probably only play 15 to 25 hours a month right now and still worth it.
04/12/2016 02:18 PMPosted by Hina
Here is a better question. Why didn't they just flat out show this footage at Blizzcon? Why didn't they show us the mission table at Blizzcon? Are you really fooling yourself into thinking this is going to be any different by launch?


you wanna know why they never showed us the mission table? because people would be upset, that the worst feature in Warlords will be returning in Legion. people would not pre-order, let alone purchase the expansion.

I'm noticing mods are starting to delete posts they find "offensive to their vision" already. :/


What is the point of trying to hide things when preorders can be cancelled? There was already a thread earlier about someone cancelling four preorders because of the table.

That said, nothing revealed so far is incongruent with Blizzcon.
04/12/2016 02:25 PMPosted by Greybèard
Yes they do leave for all reasons but a lot and I would suspect the vast majority left WOD because it was just bad because logic and WOW's history illustrates this, people dont leave when its good.


I wish I had a dollar for every person who claim this who have a record of playing almost every day.

At least your armory shows you quiet for two weeks. I'll take 50 cents.
04/12/2016 02:10 PMPosted by Primeheart
No, I click a 3 hour mission and then don't have anything to do as it stands currently. I have said in posts in this thread and quoted another that I will be fine if this is just a small spec of things I can do in the outside world.

Also if you read my previous posts, you would see that I want to go DO things and not be handed things on a silver platter.

Quite simply, I want to go complete quests and objectives myself for the 3rd relic, and my off spec artifact. I want things to do...like others, I do not support a facebook/mobile/mini game to be my 'gate' for content.


That's the way the system is. You click, you have a mission that will be completed in 3 hours while you're out in the world doing something else.

Again, every example of something important that you have provided is something that you unlock while you're still levelling and you complete while you're still levelling.

I read your other post, and I get it. You want access to everything immediately you don't ever want to have to wait for anything you don't want any content gated behind anything else.

Unfortunately, that has never been the design of WoW. If it's not gated behind a 3 hour "waiting for this mission" then it's gated behind a month long rep grind, or it's gated behind daily cooldowns on something.

The best thing about this gating system, is that you ultimately don't even have to concern yourself with it. You send out the mission then go back to levelling. Next time you get to your class hall (unless you go there 10 minutes after leaving), you'll have an artifact relic slot, new world content to go do, or a new artifact.

I'm still not comprehending what the big deal is. I still don't understand how you're comparing unlocking things through the mission table while you're levelling to doing a mission right now in game when you literally have no other content that you can go do.

It seems like you're trying to compare apples to watermelon because they both happen to be fruit.
04/12/2016 02:28 PMPosted by Asthas
What is the point of trying to hide things when preorders can be cancelled? There was already a thread earlier about someone cancelling four preorders because of the table.


remember when Blizzard advertised and promised Karabor/Bladespire as faction hubs at Blizzcon that year? people pre-ordered Warlords in an instant, cause they were stoked about this news. roughly 8 months later, when it was too late to get refunds, they announced on their Twitter feed roughly before they closed down for the holiday weekend, that they never intended to give us Karabor/Bladespire, and instead we'd have two campsites as faction hubs. Stormshield for Alliance, and Warspear for Horde. they would both be situated outside the World PvP zone, Ashran.

remember how they promised flying with patch 6.1, then months later said it would be the first major patch, then soon™? only to announce on polygon's site that they "never intended" to put flight into Warlords, let alone future content ever again, as it didn't fit with their "vision".

it's called "misleading" your customers. like I said before, Blizzard's stance seems to be: "Eff you, we've got your money!" and the more I read about Legion, the more I believe it. :|
04/12/2016 02:28 PMPosted by Mvura
04/12/2016 02:25 PMPosted by Greybèard
Yes they do leave for all reasons but a lot and I would suspect the vast majority left WOD because it was just bad because logic and WOW's history illustrates this, people dont leave when its good.


I wish I had a dollar for every person who claim this who have a record of playing almost every day.

At least your armory shows you quiet for two weeks. I'll take 50 cents.


I'm just stating subscription facts. Throughout WOW's history subscriptions numbers have been either increasing or at least stable and the correlating factor was that they were quality expansions based on numbers. WOD on the other hand does not share this correlation and has had the most drastic reduction in subs. Its a paradox when correlation does imply causation which I think is driving people kind of wonky.
I like it.
Some additional thoughts on the concerns that have been raised in this and other threads, loosely paraphrased:

Don't you understand that no one likes missions? Why are you keeping any piece of the system?

We understand that many players are unhappy with garrisons, and in particular with the prominence of follower missions in Warlords of Draenor. We're certainly not sitting around, saying to ourselves, "Wow, everyone loves managing followers and doing missions; let's just copy/paste this feature into our next expansion for an easy win!"

We agree that, especially in the long run, the balance of content and rewards between garrison missions and core world content was a big problem in Draenor. Players too often found themselves without much reason to bother with dungeons or outdoor content, possibly logging on to raid or PvP, and otherwise just checking in to collect mission rewards and send followers out on new ones. And after a little while of that, it's awfully easy for it to stop feeling like a proper MMO experience.

We've tried to tackle this problem throughout our design of Legion. We've focused on replayable and varied outdoor world content and dungeon content as the heart and soul of the Legion endgame, and on reward systems that will support the continued relevance of those systems.

But at the same time, there are people who do enjoy the mission minigame, and there are some positive elements, such as a bit of offline progression, and the fun of looking forward to a reward waiting for you when you get home and log in. Not all aspects of the game are intended to appeal to all players - that's part of the challenge of creating a single game that is played by such a diverse audience with different preferences and playstyles. But while garrison followers and missions were a substantial portion of the content in Warlords, Order Hall missions are probably more like 3% of Legion.

I understand that there is a fair amount of cynicism, and there are some who are probably reading this right now and thinking that it's just a bunch of nice-sounding words trying to cover up our sinister plan of mission-table supremacy. But even if we wanted to, we know that we can’t hide anything here. Well before Legion is in anyone's hands, people will be experiencing the system in its entirety in beta, and we'll be judged on that basis.

But there's key player power at the bottom of my Order Hall tech tree, so isn't that gated behind missions?

Actually, no. As I mentioned in my post in the Alpha forums, what players are seeing in Alpha right now lacks context, admittedly because we haven't provided much. The research you can initiate in your Order Hall to unlock various perks, culminating in a strong player-power reward, requires Order Resources. Order Resources are not in any way gained through missions. You gain Order Resources from quest content: from the one-time Order Campaign quest arc, from treasures around the world, and at max level from outdoor world quests. If anything, missions are more likely to serve as an outlet for excess Resources once you have your research needs covered.

The Order Hall campaign immediately has you do missions that take a day to complete. That sounds terrible.

That's good feedback, and definitely the sort of thing we may adjust. Let me try to explain the intent here: The core of the class Order campaigns is epic quest content that is custom to your class. If you're a Death Knight, you might be working to raise a new set of Four Horsemen who are powerful enough to stand against the Legion; as a Mage, you may be investigating a plot that threatens to undo Dalaran from within; and so forth. That's what the Order campaigns are. We start you on these chains during the level-up experience, but they're intended to be a story that unfolds over time, complementing the game's level-up and endgame progression.

In Warlords, when we had the Garrison campaign quests, we presented a new one each week, but there was no real indication where the next step would come from, or how long you would have to wait in order to continue. This time around, we want to avoid having gaps where there's no quest in your log. Having occasional steps where we ask you to run a few missions with long completion times seemed like a more elegant way to do that, allowing us to weave in a bit of storytelling, as opposed to just "hey, come back next week for the next step."

I understand that most of the discussion is based on bits of information that emerge from the Alpha, and I know that it's difficult to truly reassure you when you haven't yet seen the things I'm talking about firsthand. But hopefully trying to share our goals and philosophies, as well as acknowledging past missteps (we hear you - really!), can provide some guidance about where this system is going to end up when it's complete.
As long as they develop a healthy amount of content that works independent of the COH missions it should be k.
04/12/2016 02:35 PMPosted by Elrathien
04/12/2016 02:28 PMPosted by Asthas
What is the point of trying to hide things when preorders can be cancelled? There was already a thread earlier about someone cancelling four preorders because of the table.


remember when Blizzard advertised and promised Karabor/Bladespire as faction hubs at Blizzcon that year? people pre-ordered Warlords in an instant, cause they were stoked about this news. roughly 8 months later, when it was too late to get refunds, they announced on their Twitter feed roughly before they closed down for the holiday weekend, that they never intended to give us Karabor/Bladespire, and instead we'd have two campsites as faction hubs. Stormshield for Alliance, and Warspear for Horde. they would both be situated outside the World PvP zone, Ashran.

remember how they promised flying with patch 6.1, then months later said it would be the first major patch, then soon™? only to announce on polygon's site that they "never intended" to put flight into Warlords, let alone future content ever again, as it didn't fit with their "vision".

it's called "misleading" your customers. like I said before, Blizzard's stance seems to be: "Eff you, we've got your money!" and the more I read about Legion, the more I believe it. :|


The only day it is too late for refunds is when the expansion actually comes out. Do you have a source for people being denied refunds on pre-orders before release?
04/11/2016 04:08 PMPosted by Inxy

Having given this more thought, I am even more annoyed as time goes on. Tables did not work. Nothing about garrisons were fun. You lost a HUGE portion of your subscriber base to this design choice.
Can we stop with this ignorant nonsense. THERE IS NO ONE REASON WHY EVERYONE LEFT. Players left for all kinds of different reason and making the claim you do just makes you look stupid.
04/12/2016 02:42 PMPosted by Watcher
But at the same time, there are people who do enjoy the mission minigame, and there are some positive elements, such as a bit of offline progression, and the fun of looking forward to a reward waiting for you when you get home and log in. Not all aspects of the game are intended to appeal to all players - that's part of the challenge of creating a single game that is played by such a diverse audience with different preferences and playstyles. But while garrison followers and missions were a substantial portion of the content in Warlords, Order Hall missions are probably more like 3% of Legion.


Offline progression in a MMORPG? No.

Offline progression in Farmville? CastleAge? Other "FB" style games? See it all the time.

You literally just outed yourself and confirmed what I thought (and inwardly feared) for months.
If I am the Champion of <Insert Class> with 1 of the most powerful weapon in all of Azeroth why am I not the one who is going out with my army to fight the legion?

04/11/2016 04:10 PMPosted by Mirasol
Did you read it? It is only 6 followers max and very few missions. Missions gain you real things like gear by doing real world quests yourself, although they are started at the mission table. It will be a minor part of gameplay designed to build the class fantasy up a bit. Why be the leader of your class order hall if you have nobody to be the leader of?
04/12/2016 02:42 PMPosted by Watcher
Order Hall missions are probably more like 3% of Legion.


Honestly as long as there are much fewer of them, they're more interactive, and the content isn't super relient on running them, I'd be fine with missions.

It's not a bad idea by itself, just something that was very, very badly executed in WoD. The main issue that me and probably tons of others had was that followers had more to do than players did, and so if that's fixed, I won't have as much of a problem with missions.

04/12/2016 02:42 PMPosted by Watcher
such as a bit of offline progression,


I'm less fine with this one honestly. It honestly just puts pressure on logging onto every alt and running missions every night, or it feels like I'm screwing myself on progression.
Im quitting WoWW if the mission tablet and garrisons are back. I WILL NOT LET MY WOW EXPERIENCE TURN INTO ANOTHER FACE BOOK LOG IN LOG OUT GAME.
Ion, I will trust you and your dreamy eyes for now. Better see some real changes in Beta though.
Honestly as long as there are much fewer of them, and the content isn't super relient on running them, I'd be fine with missions.
why even play an mmo? Go play a facebook game not a mmorpg. Anything that encourages anti social solo play should be discouraged.
04/12/2016 02:52 PMPosted by Uaria
Honestly as long as there are much fewer of them, and the content isn't super relient on running them, I'd be fine with missions.
why even play an mmo? Go play a facebook game not a mmorpg. Anything that encourages anti social solo play should be discouraged.


Missions should work as quests, where you can put followers on them, then go along with them to complete the quest. That'd be fine.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum