Why not a hardcore COMMUNITY server?

General Discussion
03/16/2016 06:12 PMPosted by Raiil
Blizzard's already done the footwork


They did? Footwork on what exactly?

I have never heard the type of ruleset I am suggesting being talked about before?

All I ever read about was "Vanilla Servers" kit and kaboodle...at least that's how I always took those posts.

Even though I don't agree with 100% Vanilla Servers, which stops any content updates, you have to admit there has been a TON of interest in them.

My idea is to fuse the Vanilla social environment with the ongoing content and class / gameplay updates.
03/16/2016 06:12 PMPosted by Raiil
03/16/2016 05:53 PMPosted by Kuatox
...

Care to elaborate? Or are you just blowing smoke?

Because I'm willing to bet a lot of people would play on such a server. A lot more than some of the dead servers they already maintain.


Blizzard's already done the footwork and concluded that it won't be worth the time/effort angle. As much as I sideeye some of their decisions, they are a business, and no one who keeps spouting how great it would be has any sort of tangible proof that it would at least be self-sustaining via subs. Blizzard would be the only people to have access to that information, and at this time they've put the kibosh on it.


I don't think they've said anything one way or the other about a server type like that. They've said no to vanilla servers but that's not what the OP is asking for.

There's certainly a precedent for different server types, PvE/PvP/RPPvE/RPPvP etc...
03/16/2016 05:56 PMPosted by Nädezhda
Why not these rules? On just a few servers?


I don't know, sir. I'd be fine with it, but I'm not the one that needs convincing.

03/16/2016 06:12 PMPosted by Raiil
Blizzard's already done the footwork and concluded that it won't be worth the time/effort angle. As much as I sideeye some of their decisions, they are a business, and no one who keeps spouting how great it would be has any sort of tangible proof that it would at least be self-sustaining via subs. Blizzard would be the only people to have access to that information, and at this time they've put the kibosh on it.


The fact that legacy servers or any special flavor server like OP is asking for don't exist yet is the strongest evidence we have that they wouldn't be viable. Blizzard's done their market research, here, and if they believed there was money to be made on these servers commensurate with the time, effort & resources they'd need to devote to them, they'd exist already. Could they be wrong in their assessment of the market? Absolutely. I'm inclined to trust a bit more in their judgement there, though, than in that of some random on the forums.
03/16/2016 03:16 PMPosted by Nädezhda
Other than corporate greed (a la server transfers and other "convience item" cash sales) why not a hardcore COMMUNITY server.


If the ONLY 2 possibilities you can think of are (1) YOUR idea (2) "corporate greed"...

....then your idea is not worth reading. You're clearly dishonest, phony, with no useful thinking.
03/16/2016 06:23 PMPosted by Kazri
03/16/2016 03:16 PMPosted by Nädezhda
Other than corporate greed (a la server transfers and other "convience item" cash sales) why not a hardcore COMMUNITY server.


If the ONLY 2 possibilities you can think of are (1) YOUR idea (2) "corporate greed"...

....then your idea is not worth reading. You're clearly dishonest, phony, with no useful thinking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGZo5gn_tc
03/16/2016 03:16 PMPosted by Nädezhda
The goal of these rules would be to create the social environment of Vanilla

It hasn't really changed since then. Anyone that tells you different either wasn't really there, or is flat out lying.
03/16/2016 06:21 PMPosted by Nädezhda
03/16/2016 06:12 PMPosted by Raiil
Blizzard's already done the footwork


They did? Footwork on what exactly?

I have never heard the type of ruleset I am suggesting being talked about before?

All I ever read about was "Vanilla Servers" kit and kaboodle...at least that's how I always took those posts.

Even though I don't agree with 100% Vanilla Servers, which stops any content updates, you have to admit there has been a TON of interest in them.

My idea is to fuse the Vanilla social environment with the ongoing content and class / gameplay updates.


Those sorts of segregated servers, with 'special' rules and such.

They can't even properly police the damn RP servers on behalf of the RPers.
The people who think these servers wouldn't work or wouldn't last and people would flock back to the other servers are really, really dumb. It is just like the people who predict nostalgia servers wouldn't work despite the massive amount of evidence that they are thriving.


The fact that legacy servers or any special flavor server like OP is asking for don't exist yet is the strongest evidence we have that they wouldn't be viable. Blizzard's done their market research, here, and if they believed there was money to be made on these servers commensurate with the time, effort & resources they'd need to devote to them, they'd exist already. Could they be wrong in their assessment of the market? Absolutely. I'm inclined to trust a bit more in their judgement there, though, than in that of some random on the forums.


Isn't Vanilla WoW.... the game that became incredibly popular....with rule sets similar to what I suggest... "market research"?

I appreciate your response and I am willing to admit these types of servers could be unpopular and if I thought they would be a huge resource hog, I could agree to not risk the expense.

However, Vanilla WoW was incredibly popular. I mean geez... has the game ever grown as fast as Vanilla WoW did?

And then there's been how many years of people requesting a "Vanilla Server".

Personally, I think one of things they really want when they ask this are MMO social experiences that matter. It seems like a few closed servers could serve some of that.

There are a lot of negative responses here, I am not surprised. It's easy to shoot things down that might seem threatening or what have you. I get that people only want Blizz to spend resources on things that benefit THEM but I wonder why allowing a few servers that might end up serving 10 to 15000 people and making those people really happy would be so bad.

A huge downside about my ruleset that people haven't mentioned, which I am surprised they haven't is that their could be an uncorrectable faction balance on these servers.

Anyone have ideas to fix faction balance? On any server, for that matter?

That is one reason I suggested same faction battlegrounds because I think that's where a limited population would exacerbation long battleground queues.
03/16/2016 06:35 PMPosted by Verbatim
The people who think these servers wouldn't work or wouldn't last and people would flock back to the other servers are really, really dumb. It is just like the people who predict nostalgia servers wouldn't work despite the massive amount of evidence that they are thriving.


What evidence?
03/16/2016 06:08 PMPosted by Nädezhda
How much time and money would you estimate it would take to set this up? How do you know this wouldn't have some worthwhile success?


Probably enough. Blizz is slow enough with content at times as it is.

I don't think it'd be all that successful either. Just a vocal minority that wants them.

03/16/2016 06:18 PMPosted by Joynal
That's the point you bring in a different dwarf priest who may not have the gear and experience but has the motivation and ability to "git gud" once given a chance to raid.

:-) Not everyone plays the game for progression at any cost.


How many dwarf priests do you think there were?

With the size of a raid group needed, no way to cross-server recruit, it was a very daunting task. Sometimes you really did have to put up with certain people to get things done back then.
03/16/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Pettycrocker
Seriously though, it'll likely get attention for all of 15 minutes and then people will get sick of it/bored/whatever else and lose interest.


He says as a vanilla private server with 15k players is currently up.

How do you know people will lose interest? Because you don't find it interesting yourself?
03/16/2016 06:42 PMPosted by Gedríck
He says as a vanilla private server with 15k players is currently up.


15k is barely a drop in the bucket.
03/16/2016 05:56 PMPosted by Nädezhda
The core idea, however, it to encourage a sense of server community. And on this score, I think a LOT of people would like that goal.


Some crazy ideas from ESO (that I posted on another thread):

.

Make guild-memberships account-based --
it's easier to consistently notice a username (and familiarize yourself with a person) in guild chat than to relearn everyone's 8+ alts. Zone-chat is still character-based -- but your guild mates should have an easier time getting to know you.

.

Permit multiple guild memberships --
as opposed to "dividing people's loyalties", it helps people try new communities faster. I started with my priorities, slowly joining new guilds that interested me (a couple PVP guilds, a couple RP guilds, and a "generic" guild).

My last "line-up" was a PVP-RP guild, a couple RP guilds, a PVE guild and a Trade/Craft guild. This was because I never had to abandon my core interests (the PVP & RP communities) - and even found people who shared both interests (hence PVP-RP) - and could stay in those communities while exploring others (the generic guild bored me, but a member introduced me to the Trade/Craft guild -- and later on, I actually joined a PVE guild, which I usually avoid in WoW).

So I could PVE on weekdays, PVP on Saturday nights, RP mixed in ---and there was a lot of overlap too. My Trade/Craft guild made me a better resource for the RP guilds (who often wanted custom armor crafted); my RP guilds were great for PVP (they were quite competent PVPers - but we had uniforms and the like, and an organized battalion looks way more badass than a scattered bunch of mercenaries).

.

Revamp the Professions/Crafting systems:
The customization in crafting was potent enough that you could always produce relevant gear - fully customized gear - for anyone from lvl 1 to lvl 50 onwards. Gear within a "Style" was consistent - slowly becoming "fancier" the higher-level it was - but still visually part of the style (creating a sense of rank). When you crafted, your signature showed up on the tooltip - and "styles" had to be acquired per-crafter - so a knowledgeable crafter would have a regular and loyal clientele (as opposed to the random "can crafter #63 make obscure recipe #142 for a lvl 30?").

-- One Orc-only RP guild had full uniforms - so we'd offer free quality gear (with set-bonuses!) to new members. The uniforms made it easy to spot each other - and stand out - in crowds. This helped recruitment and cohesion more.

-- A different guild wanted a signature ability - from the "Ashen Grip" set - that let you spit fire. Every outfit I crafted there was custom - but in PVP, our mob would just begin pouring flames everywhere and group-identity came from raiding, burning and murdering enemies together.

-- Crafters were a great investment for guild officers. In addition to "the above", you become intimately familiar with players - and some would "pamper" favorites (I remember gearing a few in really rare/expensive styles, regardless of their level, just to show off what I could make and let them flaunt). As opposed to WoW (where gear loses value fast; and people are "worthless" until they hit cap), crafting gear for people was fun (because even low-levels could spread the word of the blacksmith who crafted (X) and maybe those low-levels are looking for a guild...).

.

Just a few "forward-thinking" ideas as opposed to the old school "take away features and pray people respond the same way they did a decade ago".
Problem would be as soon as one side gained a advantage in PVP due
to the numbers not staying even. People on the gimped side would
start leaving making PVP even more uneven causing even more to leave
or reroll on the winning side. This in turn would make finding groups on
that side even harder forcing the PvE people to leave.

That is how my server died way back at the end of BC. It was to the point
that the Alliance side was empty with hardly anything in the AH and
no guilds to join or groups to join.
03/16/2016 06:45 PMPosted by Tevoymatar
Just a few "forward-thinking" ideas as opposed to the old school "take away features and pray people respond the same way they did a decade ago".


These. These I like.
03/16/2016 06:40 PMPosted by Studmuffyn
03/16/2016 06:35 PMPosted by Verbatim
The people who think these servers wouldn't work or wouldn't last and people would flock back to the other servers are really, really dumb. It is just like the people who predict nostalgia servers wouldn't work despite the massive amount of evidence that they are thriving.


What evidence?


I don't feel like advertising for any private servers but you can use google yourself.
03/16/2016 06:42 PMPosted by Gedríck
03/16/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Pettycrocker
Seriously though, it'll likely get attention for all of 15 minutes and then people will get sick of it/bored/whatever else and lose interest.


He says as a vanilla private server with 15k players is currently up.

How do you know people will lose interest? Because you don't find it interesting yourself?


Even if Wow were down to 1.5 million players wouldn't that be like one percent of the population?
03/16/2016 06:51 PMPosted by Caffeine
03/16/2016 06:42 PMPosted by Gedríck
...

He says as a vanilla private server with 15k players is currently up.

How do you know people will lose interest? Because you don't find it interesting yourself?


Even if Wow were down to 1.5 million players wouldn't that be like one percent of the population?


They mean 15k players online which is more highly populated than any realm blizzard has.
03/16/2016 06:36 PMPosted by Nädezhda


The fact that legacy servers or any special flavor server like OP is asking for don't exist yet is the strongest evidence we have that they wouldn't be viable. Blizzard's done their market research, here, and if they believed there was money to be made on these servers commensurate with the time, effort & resources they'd need to devote to them, they'd exist already. Could they be wrong in their assessment of the market? Absolutely. I'm inclined to trust a bit more in their judgement there, though, than in that of some random on the forums.


Isn't Vanilla WoW.... the game that became incredibly popular....with rule sets similar to what I suggest... "market research"?

I appreciate your response and I am willing to admit these types of servers could be unpopular and if I thought they would be a huge resource hog, I could agree to not risk the expense.

However, Vanilla WoW was incredibly popular. I mean geez... has the game ever grown as fast as Vanilla WoW did?

And then there's been how many years of people requesting a "Vanilla Server".

Personally, I think one of things they really want when they ask this are MMO social experiences that matter. It seems like a few closed servers could serve some of that.

There are a lot of negative responses here, I am not surprised. It's easy to shoot things down that might seem threatening or what have you. I get that people only want Blizz to spend resources on things that benefit THEM but I wonder why allowing a few servers that might end up serving 10 to 15000 people and making those people really happy would be so bad.

A huge downside about my ruleset that people haven't mentioned, which I am surprised they haven't is that their could be an uncorrectable faction balance on these servers.

Anyone have ideas to fix faction balance? On any server, for that matter?

That is one reason I suggested same faction battlegrounds because I think that's where a limited population would exacerbation long battleground queues.


No, it's not.

There are factors to consider. One, nostalgia factor tends to be stronger in vets (in pretty much any applicable part of life) and it gives us rose coloured googles. You hear people talk about the good old days, and our memories tend to gloss over the non-fun parts.

Gaming itself has changed, as it always has. I have been gaming for almost 27 years. The community has evolved a lot since I was in short pants and could barely hold an NES controller. And it has evolved a lot since Vanilla WoW came on the scene. Furthermore, if you're going to be using popularity as an index, WotLK- which brought the advent of things many people consider scene breakers, like LFG- would be your go-to, not Vanilla.

The community has changed. Even for long term vets- people such as my brother- have undergone drastic life changes. He used to play a lot with his then soon to be wife. In the interim from beta Vanilla to now, he has married, had two children, and divorced. The vets will now most likely at bare minimum be in college, if they started very young, and most are probably older, in 'adult' jobs, who cannot put in the hours to create the server community you're speaking of. People on the whole have less time to play.

People have also gotten 'used to' the conveniences of LFD. Personally, I raid mostly with a guild on Tich, while I myself am on Eitrigg. I was introduced to the group by someone on Jubei'thos. Getting rid of that- the thing that supposedly helped destroy server communities- has been a godsend to me, and others.

Servers have a way of imbalancing themselves. People want an advantage. How do you rectify that?

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