I Made a New Character Today...

General Discussion
I created a new character today. The game for me, as it has for many people, had become stale. I felt like starting fresh, on a new server, meet new people and try to rekindle the feeling of when i first started out.

I created a Dwarf Paladin on Stormrage. I decided not to use any BoEs and attempt to immerse myself into the world. I never properly leveled through the new zones post Cataclysm so i was excited to experience some new storytelling.

I zoned in, accepted the first quest to kill some Troggs. As a level 1 I approached a level 3 trogg, and auto attacked it.... And it died. From a single auto attack. "Hmm thats odd. Shouldnt be THAT easy.. Maybe the mobs later on will be harder?" A few quests later I was tasked with killing some trolls. I remembered these quests being rather challenging due to the high respawn rates, health and damage of the aggressive mobs. My experience this time around was quite different.

I didnt 1 shot them from an auto attack, but a single Crusader Strike decimated them. I saw that i wasnt taking much damage either, and noticed my health pool was 4-5 times that of my enemies. I was taking hits of 2-5 damage, from a health pool of 200+ and dealing 40-60 damage per hit (and again this is without ANY heirlooms).

I logged out at level 5, then decided to log into a level 20 rogue i had back from BC when i had tried my hand at creating a 19 twink. I bought a pair of white quality daggers from a vendor and took off all of my gear. Finally things felt right. But the fact that i had to gimp my character to this point left a bad taste in my mouth.

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For the longest time I have been a steadfast believer that Blizzard knew what they were doing with WoWs future. I still believe that they want the best for the game, but at this point I feel that they have lost sight of what made WoW so popular and so much fun. And have become too immersed in this idea of creating a theme-park mmo that appeals to a new player-base, while inadvertently alienating their old original player-base.

WoW was at its peak when casual content and even leveling was still challenging. There is a reason why old quests like Hogger became so infamous. It was the first quest for new Human Alliance characters that required players to organize groups with each other. Hogger was difficult, but it would give you your first quest green with actual stats on it.

Difficult leveling content forced players to interact in the world. Players would meet new friends this way, create guilds and form bonds that would last for years.

Blizzard has been stuck on this idea that players no longer have time to do anything if the rewards arent just handed to them. That just because we have full time jobs, we no longer play video games unless we can achieve everything we want in a matter of hours.

Players, especially casual players, want ACHIEVEMENT. We want to work towards something, even if its just a little bit at a time, as long as it feels WORTH WHILE.

You know what that felt like? When you spent hours leveling to 10, and got to spend your first talent point. When you managed to complete that class quest that gave you so much trouble, rewarding you with that seemingly godlike class only level 20 weapon or awesomely cool skill. When you finally got to level 40 and just barely managed to earn enough gold to get your first mount. When you finally made it to max level, and saw the entire game open up before you.

How many players remember some of those things that I listed above? Those are things that even casual players remember fondly because we had to WORK for it.

The feeling of accomplishment wasnt just tied to old wow, but the problem is that it has become so few and far between. I remember getting the first stage daggers in the Fangs of the Father questline on my rogue, I remember getting my Green Fire on my Warlock, I remember completing my first Heroic Dungeon in the Cataclysm expansion, not getting a single drop and STILL feeling accomplished.

Leveling used to be difficult. It was a trial for every player. Getting to max level meant you knew how to play your class effectively, and had decent gameplay sense. Back in the day, that was the ultimate accomplishment. Hitting max level was an achievement. Something you worked hard on little by little every day.

TL;DR WoW was at its best when it had challenging content, even for players who didnt play as much as more hardcore players. Players need a feeling of achievement, something to work towards and struggle through that isnt just loot.
Here is my suggestion, play the game with no gear and no specialization. Trust me when you get about 15+ just from questing things get a bit difficult.
04/11/2016 01:27 AMPosted by Kiteton
Here is my suggestion, play the game with no gear and no specialization. Trust me when you get about 15+ just from questing things get a bit difficult.

Gimping yourself doesn't really make it fun, though. It's not a good replacement for what we used to have.
I wish we could freeze our levels without heading to SW or Org. There was one time I wanted to do quests thats in the red, but turns out Blizz changed it so that you cant take quests 5 levels above your own.
04/11/2016 01:34 AMPosted by Espure
04/11/2016 01:27 AMPosted by Kiteton
Here is my suggestion, play the game with no gear and no specialization. Trust me when you get about 15+ just from questing things get a bit difficult.

Gimping yourself doesn't really make it fun, though. It's not a good replacement for what we used to have.


It's about the challenge and having fun doing it. You have to work with what you have instead of clinging onto the past since those days are gone.
You should attempt the WoW Ironman Challenge - it will really test your skill and game knowledge. It has been keeping me nice and entertained during the lull in content!

http://wowchallenges.com/
Sometimes you just need some incentive.

Roll on a PvP server and enjoy the high level players gank you while trying to complete your questing.
40 - 50 is such a joy to play, one bot just doing circles and a high level just flying around killing low levels.
The spitting on players is so entertaining.

Leveling from 1-100 is the same as 1-60 was.
04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth
When you finally got to level 40 and just barely managed to earn enough gold to get your first mount. When you finally made it to max level, and saw the entire game open up before you.


You got your mount at 40?

What sort of superman were you?

On my first character I was almost 60 before I got my first mount!
04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth

TL;DR WoW was at its best when it had challenging content, even for players who didnt play as much as more hardcore players. Players need a feeling of achievement, something to work towards and struggle through that isnt just loot.


Everyone wants the content they like to do to have some bite to it and the content they don't like to do to go fast. I don't want to take forever to level up my toons since I have so many alts, I don't want activities that I need to do to get gear to be unpleasant and take a long time so I want dungeons and raids to be quick and easy.

I like doing professions and crafting and making gold, but because others found those activities to be tedious, blizzard made them too easy this expansion, I want those to go back to having some challenge in them and I don't care if that challenge comes from a little difficulty or from grind.
04/11/2016 02:12 AMPosted by Kiteton
04/11/2016 01:34 AMPosted by Espure
...
Gimping yourself doesn't really make it fun, though. It's not a good replacement for what we used to have.


It's about the challenge and having fun doing it. You have to work with what you have instead of clinging onto the past since those days are gone.


The trouble for some people is that they need to see others struggle and fail in order to feel they themselves have accomplished anything, so gimping themselves doesn't result in much satisfaction because it isn't really the challenge that makes them happy, it is the failure of others in comparison.
04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth
Players, especially casual players, want ACHIEVEMENT. We want to work towards something, even if its just a little bit at a time, as long as it feels WORTH WHILE.
Quit saying we, because you don't speak for everyone.

04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth
We want to work
Then get a job lol. Gotta love when people try, and use the work word in place of play lol. Can clearly see the through the thinly veiled classic server in disguise. Also there are plenty of games out there that can give you what you are asking for, so if everything is so easy then why hang around? Would like to believe most people play games, especially video games to relax, and escape that thing called work a very now, and then. If a video game feels like work then there is something very wrong, and you should seek help.
All of my friends play on Stormrage. :[
There has definitely been a shift in Blizz's design philosophy. Long ago the leveling process and open world was a key part of playing the game and for those players who didn't raid, it was the game. Then Blizz decided that they wanted everyone to experience end game content especially raiding. When they made LFR, they spent quite a bit of time explaining that (in their opinion) too few players saw all of the cool design work, story, and lore that went on in raids. I think it was at that point they nerfed leveling into the ground. Ever since then the way the game is designed is to get you to max level as quick as possible.
04/11/2016 05:30 AMPosted by Kelvanin
There has definitely been a shift in Blizz's design philosophy. Long ago the leveling process and open world was a key part of playing the game and for those players who didn't raid, it was the game. Then Blizz decided that they wanted everyone to experience end game content especially raiding. When they made LFR, they spent quite a bit of time explaining that (in their opinion) too few players saw all of the cool design work, story, and lore that went on in raids. I think it was at that point they nerfed leveling into the ground. Ever since then the way the game is designed is to get you to max level as quick as possible.
IAlso believe they went a little overboard on the nerf to leveling. Perhaps they should of left level cap at like 60, 70, or maybe 80, then, just added content? We have 100 levels now, and eventually 110, so what other choice do they have but to buff xp per quest turn in, or monster kill. If they nerfed xp, and buffed mob strength like it was in tbc tbc (also considered by a lot of folks to be the best xpac which was when they decided to buff xp gains, and nerf mob strength btw), and earlier this game would go f2p quicker than you could blink. The old model might of work back when there was only 60,70,80 levels to contend with, but 100, and 110 coming, don't believe that old model would work now tbh. Know we have the boost option, but not everyone wants, or can drop $60 to get to cap. Idk, but only other option is to make looms more op then they are now, and buff the xp gains on the looms even more then they are now to help people who don't want to slog through old stuff, if they ever did decide to go back to to classic,and tbc type of tedious leveling experience.
04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth
Difficult leveling content forced players to interact in the world. Players would meet new friends this way, create guilds and form bonds that would last for years.

You have to be careful saying things like this.

People say things like "vanilla leveling was difficult", or "the difficulty of the content forced people together".

Vanilla World of Warcraft was marketed as a leveling and questing experience that was casual friendly. One where you could quest and fight and level up on your own if you wanted, where grouping and relying on others was never forced on you and you could play however you like.

That's what classic WoW leveling was really like.

I'm not trying to get on your case here, or seem like I'm disagreeing with you. I liked your post. It's just that the way some people talk about classic WoW, others reading about it are quick to assume that "difficult leveling" means "classic WoW questing was pretty much Dark Souls with no fun allowed, and leveling was serious business at all times".

What classic WoW leveling did right was offer the best of many worlds:
Do you want to go solo, or do you want to work with others? Both playstyles were totally supported from level 1 to level 60.

Do you want to put in zero thought or effort into your gearing, questing, professions, etc? Or do you want to plan ahead, work on side activities, and put effort into maximizing your effectiveness and efficiency? Again, both playstyles were totally supported from the time you character create to the time you ding 60.

Today's WoW?
You play at 110% effectiveness at all times, questing is laid out to max you at 100% efficiency whether you want it or not. Both while solo, both while putting zero thought into how you play the game. If you want to actually play with others, if you want to actually put thought into how to play your character and the game well... Then I guess you better hurry to level cap because it's raid or die for you in today's WoW.

Classic WoW supported a massive range of people's play styles in ways that modern WoW can't even dream of, where only a single play style is supported: hurry the heck up and level cap! It was challenging if you wanted it to be, it was easy if you wanted it to be.

And because I know how some people read these kind of things, an obligatory: No, classic WoW leveling was not perfect, it was riddled with countless problems. Difficulty or challenge, though, was not one of them. The entire point of its design was for it to be casual friendly, as opposed to games like Everquest.

04/11/2016 01:18 AMPosted by Adrianth
TL;DR WoW was at its best when it had challenging content, even for players who didnt play as much as more hardcore players. Players need a feeling of achievement, something to work towards and struggle through that isnt just loot.

Overall, I agree with you. Just remember that WoW's leveling challenge was always optional, and there was always a way for those who didn't want challenge to get through with their brain turned off if they wanted an experience more akin to what is currently forced on all content pre-level cap.
The problem now is that the number of levels you need to get is too dang high. Blizz's philosophy was it should just as long to get to max level now as it did in Vanilla. And I do sort of see that, because imagine how long it'd take to get to 100 if we had all the same challenges and experience gain rate as we did in Vanilla. Prob take a year.

However, the downside of ensuring that getting to max level now takes as long as it did then is they had to make several changes to make that work:

- Gaining levels require much less experience
- Time consuming quests (such as group quests) and dungeons had to be shortened
- The quests had to become easier so you didn't die so much and waste time corpse walking.

Basically, I'm unsure whether it's Blizz trying to nerf leveling because they want new players, or because they feel the game is all about getting to max level...or both.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
At this point, quest are so easy that it gets old and boring.

the time it takes to get to a new zone for you to level in at 1-60 azeroth... you could of waited for a dungeon queue to pop and level probably faster than questing in that particular zone.
04/11/2016 01:41 AMPosted by Rulo
I wish we could freeze our levels without heading to SW or Org. There was one time I wanted to do quests thats in the red, but turns out Blizz changed it so that you cant take quests 5 levels above your own.


I remember trying to solo red quest on my warlock as a noobie in vanilla...it ended poorly every time. lol
Sounds like another difficult vs tedius thing.

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