Update on Alpha tuning

Pet Battles
BRILLIANT! Absolutely brilliant.
Thank you 2 infinity & beyond.

Once again an awesome pet battler creates a beautiful, deadly team.
04/24/2016 10:18 AMPosted by Rhonstifor
I also think they should revert to the RNG of MOP with lowered hit % and consistent damage rather than the crazy stupid RNG they have now with damage range and crits


Not disagreeing here, but as a note, in MoP, all attacks had a damage range as well. +- 10% (same as heals though they didn't change heals in WoD). Even DoTs were not consistent.

Edit: Here's an old thread about it for historical purposes.
http://www.warcraftpets.com/community/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9601
What's the big deal if howl bomb works on a few old content encounters? Make the new content better than what we got in Tanaan and leave howl bomb as is.

Edit: an example of challenging pve content where howl bomb did not work were the pre-nerfed garrison pet dailies.
I also don't think it's fair to newer pet battlers how much harder this change will make the Celestial Tournament. The tournament should only need 15 strategically leveled pets, with the change to howl bomb it may require double that amount.
Given that awfully big adventure meant we got to work out strats to 2-pet any of the previous dudes, you are probably only looking at ~14 specific pets for a given week plus a few bodies anyway. And the tournament isn't going anywhere, there isn't really a rush and if you are keen enough about pet battles to want to do the tournament you aren't going to be stopping at 15 max level pets, you may as well take your time and level a few more.
Cant say Ill miss howl bomb. Had alternate strategies for most if not all Tanaan battles.

The big convienience of Howl Bomb though, was that there wasnt a need to remember or to store multiple teams for multiple opponents. Whilst there are addons that do this, it would be more convenient to have team saving as part of the default UI.
04/24/2016 09:58 PMPosted by Alonnie
I also don't think it's fair to newer pet battlers how much harder this change will make the Celestial Tournament. The tournament should only need 15 strategically leveled pets, with the change to howl bomb it may require double that amount.


Err, it already only needs this many. Maybe you're just attempting to use the wrong ones.
Wether people are pro or con Howlbomb, I hope it's noticeable that many people want the ability to save pet teams.
04/25/2016 01:39 PMPosted by Vhale
Wether people are pro or con Howlbomb, I hope it's noticeable that many people want the ability to save pet teams.


This is the pet battle forum we don't like QOL improvements here we're old and rigid and stuck in our asinine ways.
Tummy Tenderpaw's Pet Protection and Poetry Part 1/4

I'm a huge battle pet, pokemon, jade cocoon 2, monster/pet raising game fan! I love training and collecting and battling while adventuring with my pets all around Azeroth, and am so glad they added this feature into WoW ever since Mists of Pandaria.

I don't want our pet's abilities and strengths getting nerfed, pruned, homogenized, etc - the way our character's classes have been for a buncha years now. Blizzard if you modify our pets every time there is an issue requiring the lessening or the moving around of or the diminishment of our pets and their abilities or strengths, then I think you should take a look where a problem is and fix the situation, not our pets. Instead of punishing OUR pets, pets that I bet lots of players have formed strong bonds and connections with, I suggest an improvement to your AI.

Fix the situation, don't punish our pets. Improve your pet Ai, improve tamer Ai, wild pets and pet team Ai and your legendary/boss pet Ai. That way us battlers, collectors and levelers with our trusty traps and handy safari hats can venture onward using our own beloved buddies. Fix the feature, don't punish our pets.

The changes I see being implemented or talked about are nerfs to our pets, and not long-term fixes or soul-searched advancements to the battle-pet-world and your proposed fixes are causing our pets to be gutted.

Some ideas where improved Ai to wild and tamer pets and teams would benefit, as well as improved Ai / functionality to our own characters during pet battles, instead of lessening strengths, modifying abilities / slots, or reducing the signature spirit of our pets are:
-When a wild pet has a debuff on it, allow it, through improved Ai, to have a % chance to swap with another pet on it's team, or
-Perhaps at low health there could be a % chance that the active pet may withdraw to back of the pack, or
-Allow the tamer (us players) to call out a command to his or her pet such as "Dodge it!" or "hang tough!" at opportune moments every 5-10 or so rounds, that will inspirit our pet and give them a timely fighting chance or saving grace with a minor but match-altering speed boost, defense, double damage, heal, etc. Endless possibilities. This is my favorite suggestion. Encourage and empower our buddies during the heat of battle! Cheering them on with some extra fightin' spirit!
-Maybe some bosses can cling at low health for a long time and we have to strategize how to outlast, or
-some are immune while sleeping/hiding/shielded/etc..and we have only a small window to strategize damage, or
-some may self destruct and end everyone, or
-if a head honcho pet is not destroyed fast enough, it's team mates start to come back and gain health (or boss could be in the background reviving them!), or
-some can speed up the time you have to make your move, or
-some apply a curse on the current target that lasts one round, threatening to destroy the active pet with the curse, unless they swap that pet to the back, or
-some rival pets can hold our team mates hostage and use them as shields, making us have to make decisions, or
-some have moves that prevent you from using a random ability, or
-have debuffs, dots, etc, affect Broken Isle boss pets differently than current or past pet content in unique and differing ways such as;
-some may slide off of them a round or two sooner than expected due to the cool lore in the zone, or
-some moves bounce off and back at the attacker, or
-some even become empowered with speed or strength, etc, when dots or debuffs are applied.

Challenges like these could allow us to use the pets we want to and try to power through or encourage us to make new teams for the day and maybe learn some new combos. There's a lot of cool situational stuff and these are only smigdes I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure you can come up with lots more/better. These and more ideas would also add an exciting randomness and immersiveness that's fun to tackle, not overwhelmingly difficult, and makes every battle an exhilarating experience.

Rise to the challenge of making pet battles entertaining and engaging enough where us tamers can use the pets and teams we like, without our pets and teams being something to need fixing. By pruning and homogenizing and scaling our pets the way you do/did with so many player classes and class abilities, you're removing some of the coolness that make our pets special and unique. Their signature spirits become muddled. Imagine if Misty who uses mostly only water-type pokemon - what if all of the sudden her pokemon couldn't use a certain water move anymore, diminished because of you, it would feel awful and weird. Shame.
Tummy Tenderpaw's Pet Protection and Poetry Part 2/4

If you nerf a pet or popular pet team every time one alerts you, you will be penalizing and crumpling pets somewhat often and instead of improving the feature they're being used in. Your notes say 'we heard your concerns about this' and 'agree about that', but I think if you agreed then concern would be placed on the system that everyone uses and not the specific pets only some people use or even have. The changes mentioned are identity-altering - guttings. I think it's good to leave current and past content alone as it's still challenging and design future content with our current and growing arsenal mind, allowing us to rise to new and fun challenges. Make it so that when pets on the broken isle have debuffs or dots, it changes their status or stats, or the affects slide off them early. A pet in the menagerie cleared any and all status affects - I thought that was both challenging and exciting because it felt real and demanded forethought.

Quotes:

"I don't even pet battle - just did enough to get my Direhorn - and I was beaten by the howl bomb strategy many times. But it seems to me there are a LOT of counters to the howl bomb that people can choose going into a pet battle - it's not at all a guaranteed strike and (in the case of the Water Spirit) you have lots of time to prepare for it. I agree with others - this isn't "tuning" as much as it is "crippling a useful and valid strategy". With the introduction of new pets, it seems there is the opportunity to provide additional counters versus nerfing play modes that people enjoy. Just my two cents." -Khlammy from warcraftpets.com

"Blizz, leave the Water Elemental alone. Find other ways to challange us with new pets we want to use in battle, rather than take away the ones we love now! Be creative not restrictive!" -Jackmahaffey from warcraftpets.com

"Tuning is not the same thing as nerfing the living daylights out of something. These changes to the PWS and Howl are not tuning, they're not necessary, and they need to be reverted. Now." -Xandrie_tlu from warcraftpets.com

"Imagine if a Druid was no longer considered natury." - friend Jennifer.

"You make unpleasant the usefulness tied to pets we were so happy to finally befriend, and maybe muddle our fond memories." - cousin Quan.

I don't want to get into specific moves, move slots, strengths and weaknesses because this post is more about sticking up for our little guys and improving the system around them, not tweaking them for a 'quick-fix'. I'll mention that howl and those water moves, and shell/defense are moves signature to those pets and help tamers develop a fondness for their pets with signature spirits and strengths, while opponents learn to swap or defend against them appropriately - as they should learn. All of us growing and honing skills as an adventuring battle pet master! I want to earn my broken isle gym badges and have a wild adventure of a time doing so on my new upcoming travels through your beautiful zones, not have the badges handed to me or have my pets diminished because you feel like that is the best way to fix a situation. And I think fixing pets is only opening the door to more and more fixing of pets, left and right.

I think everything is fine the way it is, but if you feel this is a situation that needs fixing, fix the feature, don't punish our pets. Adjust your boss pets and world tamers to account for OUR pets by making improvements to THEM, not US. As long as my post may be, I'm almost more concerned with and interested in how Blizzard intends to implement solutions to what they consider problem(s) with our loved feature, without stricly punishing the pet. Or the player. Point is there's ways to improve pet battles for us, without "improving" our battle pets for us. It's up to us as the tamers to learn and grow and become stronger throughout our adventures and experiences. Taking on the world one battle at a time. I hope you are out there listening to some feedback and ideas..just responding by saying that you are listening doesn't make it true. I can with confidence say that while we the battlers can and will rise to the challenges you place before us, no matter the nerf, modification or permanent disfigurement..I hope our pets and their lore/moves don't suffer. I believe certain pets have certain moves based on their lore and the region's environment that they inhabit, and I'll explain this below and why it's so important to me and should be important to the persistent world we play in. It's my main point about why you shouldn't change moves and instead, develop challenges for taming/battling in future content.
Tummy Tenderpaw's Pet Protection and Poetry Part 3/4

I continue with what is personally most important and heartfelt to me..

As for the Pandaren Water Spirit please listen as this is important to pets that are close to people's hearts as well as the stories and lore behind those pets. I've always wanted a Pandaren Water Spirit! But I've never had one. I don't buy many pets off the AH as I enjoy seeking them out for myself. I'm grateful to have received a couple of great little guys as gifts. When Mists of Pandaria was coming out and I saw the Pandaren Spirits among the backdrops of the breathtaking exotic lands, seas, cliffs and clouds, farmlands, jungles, statues and thatched/wooden homes - I knew Blizzard and their artists were doing something very special. I couldn't wait to get a hold of a spirit pet and hoped they would be something we could even have since they were so wonderful-looking. Pandaria is such a fun, mysterious and charming land and I think (though I don't know exactly how to explain it) that Mists itself is even a great
standalone game while being part of the known (and hidden) world of Azeroth - directly connected to it's lore while having it's own mystifying and special history. It's presence is so strong and the expansion's atmosphere, themes and environment are so appealing to me that while I'm so thankful and glad Pandaria exists and the expansion became a beloved part of our own puzzling story in WoW, it seems like it could also be a great standalone game all on it's own. An extraordinary place to visit again where more stories are told and adventures had, friends found and memories made. Much like how I think the The Wind Waker is a great standalone Zelda game all on it's own, and the Sorcerer's Stone makes a fine standalone story if you've never read any other HP books. My cherishing Pandaria and it's inclusion in WoW is important because it helps me describe, explain and defend one of it's little inhabitants. So back to the Water Spirit!

There's always been a longing for this little squirt because he's so appealing in that he's from an island steeped in it's own special history, surrounded by mystical waters and exotic mists. That is some of his own lucky lore and it's wholly significant. The Pandaren Water Spirit would know how to wield the waters the way it does now - differently than other aquatic types - and SHOULD have the right to continue doing so. It's his special art. His unique set and placement of moves means he's different (and that's a good thing) and he's different because he's lived on and around a very special hidden land, interacting with or avoiding extraordinary races and peculiar creatures who also call this land home. That's why I long for him as a tamer. Enriched by pure waters, enheartened by harmonious bear-folk, enlightened by the travels of an ancient turtle. You lessen his native whimsy and curious remarkableness. Please stop
removing the special stories unusual natures that shine in our pets and pets-to-be. I don't own him but I want to and for those reasons mentioned and for these next reasons. His moves the way they are now remind me of the majestic and enchanted water Pandaria is known for; Halfhill's puddles when it rains, Pools of Purity in the Valley of the Four Winds, Krasarang's shady shores, lazy fishing villages scattered all around the coasts, lush Jade Forests's little rivers and trickling waterfalls, the calming fountains found tucked near shrines and cozy pond nooks, sparkling Whitepetal Lake in Vale of Eternal Blossom (let us restore it someday please!), and of course the tranquil tides greeting all of Pandaria's beachy sands, and it's tall rocky cliffs sprayed by the salty sea. He's also developed his trusty set of moves because he's shy and at times timid, laying down some stupefying wiles to slow his attackers and placing distance while he flees. I love that. Submerging to dodge and perplex and only reappearing when he's safe or when he has mustered a confidence to continue. Only attacking directly when he's cornered or calm enough to do battle, as he would rather seek refuge or focus on restoring life. This elusive brawler brings balance to the battlefield, and turns the tides only when his tamer empowers him with encouragement. He finds it in himself to push through, after attuning himself with the ebb and and flow of the tides. Feeling an incredibly deep connection to the planet, he can through meditation, gift a harmony that only his curing water brings - soothing a sting or helping heal the world's wounds. He's earned what he's learned. Fearful when unvieled, brave when he has to be, this wielder of untouched waters duels and dives the only way it knows how to - and to the lore and to the island and to tamer that raises him, he's unlike any other aquatic pet.
Tummy Tenderpaw's Pet Protection and Poetry Part 4/4

I have wanted all the spirits for a long time. I have a few but not all of them, and the elusive Pandaren Water Spirit is one I do not have (yet) and so I have never used him in battle in any current or previous content. I have not used him on boss pets, not in Tanaan Jungle, not in pvp or the Celestial Tournament. I haven't looked up guides and I'm not that great at battling but the pets I do have have stuck with me and we do ok for a ragtag team of buddies haphazardly bumbbling about. I am sure many haven't used him or even have him, but I have told you why I want and strive for one. Befriending a humid inhabitant of the most special of islands and encouraging / empowering the rare abilities emblematic to a native that were inherited by and honed in an environment of incomparable beauty. I believe your focus should be on the future of pet battle content, improving upcoming encounters by making them challenging, difficult on their own merit without the challenge coming from gutted pets and disheartened players. And preserving what makes our hard earned homies or sought after sidekicks special. Our pets have earned what they've learned, so you pave the way for a great game to play!

In this post I have addressed my ideas such as develop new fights better and keeping our pets out of it as they've earned what they've learned. In general, fix the feature, don't punnish our pets. Preserve our pals.

And now a chant from my Uncle, the quirky and wise Wandering Pet Poet Tenderpaw - for The Pandaren Water Spirit and all aquatic types who face getting watered down:

the sky darkens with a calling of watery clouds,
the battlefield is dampened by puddles and moist mists,
curtains of ominous rain enshrouds,
flooding waves begin to beat and beffudle while pools whirl with slick twists

these slippery, impassioned pets
can lurk with a breath near unending,
or from depths raise boiling jets
and even spray waters cool and mending.

you'll find them playin' in puddles
frolickin' in fens, or in bogs blowin' bubbles
they can call a sprinkling of rain,
or torrential deluge of calamitous pain,

just as the ocean knows,
aquatics too must decide
when to ebb and when to flow,
much like the warring tide.

-Wanderer Tenderpaw, Pet Protector and Poet
I am torn by both my desire to play jade caccoon and my desire to not have to dig it out of my case.
I'm sure there was some wonderful stuff in all that Tummy but please TLDR it, I just woke up ._.
04/24/2016 09:58 PMPosted by Alonnie
I also don't think it's fair to newer pet battlers how much harder this change will make the Celestial Tournament. The tournament should only need 15 strategically leveled pets, with the change to howl bomb it may require double that amount.
Are there even any guides for 15 pets in the tourney? I know there's an 18 pet one.

Speaking of which, if someone is a new pet battler they're going to do one of two things:

  • Level pets they enjoy
  • Level pets recommended by guides/forums


The change means that for player #1, they aren't going to be as far behind if they didn't pick PWS/Chrom to level. Those two pets require that new battlers use the AH. There's no way to get PWS on your own if you're new to battling. You HAVE to get it from another player.

Player #2 won't notice a difference. They will still be leveling the pets we tell them to. Beyond the issue of following outdated guides, they won't notice the difference between leveling 18 pets for the tournament vs leveling 25.
Leave things alone

Posted by Muffinus
...
Dev note: This is our first iteration at disarming the Howl Bomb strategy in PvE, which has proven to be very powerful in too many situations. The goal is to make PvE battles more interesting and encourage the use of a wide variety of pets.


I have no issue with that, other than the fact that you have an insane amount of "critters" and "beasts" and most of them are not usable, and you are only concentrating on a handful of Pets in order to take down the strategies already listed on the Internet.

If this was about the other variety of pets, you would have discussed these others ... I mean ... 135 Critters and 146 Beasts in my inventory, and only about 10 of each are usable in several fights, where as of 36 Mechanical something like half of them are usable at any time, and in the Dragonkin area, of the 26 I have, easily 13 to 15 of them are usable.

I think your "idea" is faulty at best, and not honest. I do not see an improvement in the rest of the other Pets in my inventory, and neither are you showing any inclination, other than hiding information and not discussing it at all.

I won't complain much, since I did well and have over 75% of my Pets on Rare, but anyone just getting started will not be able to get their pets to Rare, since the rewards are simply not there anymore, and on top of it, you folks ensured that no one can succeed in Pet Battles any more.
04/24/2016 09:58 PMPosted by Alonnie
I also don't think it's fair to newer pet battlers how much harder this change will make the Celestial Tournament. The tournament should only need 15 strategically leveled pets, with the change to howl bomb it may require double that amount.
Are there even any guides for 15 pets in the tourney? I know there's an 18 pet one.

...
  • Level pets they enjoy
  • Level pets recommended by guides/forums

...

[/quote]

I had been building towards the idea of doing the Celestial Tournament. I'm probably ready for it, but I have given up, without even starting. This whole nerf' and those trainers don't give you anything except crap for rewards, pretty much means that the tournament is not worth it, and the Pet that you might want (Xu-Fu?) is not even worth the hassle, since he is also a part of the big nerf I'm sure. Blizzard has made no secret that the big top 5 or 10 listed on Warcraftpets list are the target for nerf's ... and that all strategies around the net are now history and all wrong ... with one problem. Database folks don't know when someone is old and out of time and place and those old strategies will still be listed ... and you will be wasting time on fights, because you did not realize the information is now totally wrong and not useful.

The Celestial Tournament, at this moment is a joke ... it's hard enough taking down the pets on the Jungle, let alone have to deal with the Celestial Tournament folks. At that, I have only taken down about 4 or 5 of them in the Jungle. The rewards in the CT will never invite me over there!

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