Please bring Kaplan back.

General Discussion
Prev 1 6 7 8 10 Next
04/25/2016 03:52 PMPosted by Tadkins
Either the meat of the experience is out of raids (and into dungeons, or the open world, etc) or it's in the raids, but with an LFR version so everybody can see it.


Oh, oh my goodness. An open world raid boss that's the final boss of the game. I'd really like this idea, but it'd likely only work if we didn't have factions anymore.

Then again, the Legion is a foe that really SHOULD have us abandoning that mindset.
04/25/2016 03:56 PMPosted by Kjeera
Oh, oh my goodness. An open world raid boss that's the final boss of the game. I'd really like this idea, but it'd likely only work if we didn't have factions anymore.

Then again, the Legion is a foe that really SHOULD have us abandoning that mindset.


Very true. A whole entire zone dedicated to fighting Sargeras in. The entire server would have to come together for it. That'd be pretty interesting.
Removing LFR and creating mega-realms by condensing realms is the only way to make things better.

I think LFD should still be in the same, a lot of people have brought up some good points on why it should exist.

There are better ways of encouraging players to raid, and LFR is not one of them. Making the game easily accessible to everyone with brain-dead easy tasks to do also defeats the entire purpose of gaming. There's a reason why gaming and hobbies are different examples of fun. It's also a reason why adults are still playing Chess, and not Tic-Tac-Toe.

What people describe as a non-grind, with a casual approach at a single player level is not an MMORPG. It's a hobby.

What people describe as dedication, and any level of difficulty to be faced by a group of players rather than an individual is what an MMORPG is supposed to be all about.
04/25/2016 03:59 PMPosted by Perky
Removing LFR and creating mega-realms by condensing realms is the only way to make things better.


The game community has already proven that it can't be 100% inclusive. LFR is a good way to participate in the game for those who don't "make the cut".

Unless, of course, Blizz chose to take the meat of the game experience and story out of the raids.
He belongs to Overwatch now, muahahaha! [I'm so stoked about the open beta next week!]
A lot of you people on here sure have some foggy memories about WoWs past.
04/25/2016 04:03 PMPosted by Tadkins
The game community has already proven that it can't be 100% inclusive. LFR is a good way to participate in the game for those who don't "make the cut".

Unless, of course, Blizz chose to take the meat of the game experience and story out of the raids.


Normal difficulty can be done by any pug in-realm. It's not hard at all.

Your logic is flawed though, and the game community has proven that with how much raiding existed and continued to push the game to it's highest success before LFR was put in though.

Also the "meat of the game experience" is also PvP as much as it was PvE. A lot of people don't realize this but the game was originally designed for PvP, only to have Molten Core added as a last week scrapped together form of content. I think I don't need to spell out that regardless of how much was actually committed to the raiding design part of Vanilla, the results were obviously extremely successful.

Your "make the cut" mentality is narrow-minded. Those who didn't "make the cut" were not banished in Survivor and left on Exile island to fight through tribal council duels to get back into the game. They were still in the game and just like everyone else, has opportunities to only get better, more geared, and find homes for themselves at whatever level of difficulty suits their play.
04/25/2016 04:13 PMPosted by Perky
Normal difficulty can be done by any pug in-realm. It's not hard at all.


Times, jobs, disabilities, etc...are all factors that could prohibit someone from normal raiding.

04/25/2016 04:13 PMPosted by Perky
Your logic is flawed though, and the game community has proven that with how much raiding existed and continued to push the game to it's highest success before LFR was put in though.


The numbers of folks who saw the raid were still apparently not enough for Blizzard, when it comes to justifying the huge costs of the raids.

Without LFR we'd get small, crappy raids like ToC and Firelands again.

04/25/2016 04:13 PMPosted by Perky
Also the "meat of the game experience" is also PvP as much as it was PvE. A lot of people don't realize this but the game was originally designed for PvP, only to have Molten Core added as a last week scrapped together form of content. I think I don't need to spell out that regardless of how much was actually committed to the raiding design part of Vanilla, the results were obviously extremely successful.


Eh, debatable. PvP is just "Alliance and Horde beat each other up" or "A couple of guys beat each other up in a box". The only thing that really changes is the background.

04/25/2016 04:13 PMPosted by Perky
Your "make the cut" mentality is narrow-minded. Those who didn't "make the cut" were not banished in Survivor and left on Exile island to fight through tribal council duels to get back into the game. They were still in the game and just like everyone else, has opportunities to only get better, more geared, and find homes for themselves at whatever level of difficulty suits their play.


Back then they might as well have been. Once word got around that a person sucked, it was very hard for them to land another group.
Vanilla posts in disguise.
Times, jobs, disabilities, etc...are all factors that could prohibit someone from normal raiding.

If you can do it in LFR you could do it in a small raid. Having 1-3 bosses could be done in an hour or two. They wouldn't be that difficult, much like Sarth or VoA, but they would still challenge a group that wasn't working for it.

People that say they don't have time to raid normal or higher are kidding them selves. To clear all of HFC LFR with queue times is more than 4 hours. To get a group together and clear all the bosses of VoA was little more than an hour. It dropped tier, trinkets, and had a chance for a mount. It was the perfect game play for the LFR crowd.
Without LFR we'd get small, crappy raids like ToC and Firelands again.

Without LFR we had... every single raid before LFR. Just because Blizzard doesn't want to spend time or money on it, doesn't mean we should be ok with it. Bobby Kotick gets 7.8 million dollar salary a year. Why should we accept that they want to make more profit so that we can just be stuck with multiple versions of the same content?

04/25/2016 04:21 PMPosted by Tadkins
Back then they might as well have been. Once word got around that a person sucked, it was very hard for them to land another group.


What is wrong with being told you aren't good enough to complete this content so go practice and get better?
Times, jobs, disabilities, etc...are all factors that could prohibit someone from normal raiding.


And LFR doesn't? LFR is just a queue system without the talking. Mega realms would eliminate the problem of being unable to find said players for such contents. A lot of people complain about the downtime of finding someone, not many have complained about how "tedious" it is to talk to people. Mega realms / realm mergers would fix this problem.

I really don't get this mentality that players are starting to have. You want the game community to be designed primarily for those who don't have the time to play it. I don't have a problem with disabled people playing the game, but I really think you're taking it too far with the whole disability card. If you want the game to be designed so that even disabled people can play it, I think we have a problem here. Like Kaplan said and Ironsaint pointed out, the whole notion of all content being accessible and easy makes the game world feel a lot smaller. And they're right.

Eh, debatable. PvP is just "Alliance and Horde beat each other up" or "A couple of guys beat each other up in a box". The only thing that really changes is the background.


Not debatable. It's fact. That's what the game was originally designed for. The entire honor system wasn't even released when it first came live. Look it up if you have to. Not sure what you're getting at here.

Back then they might as well have been. Once word got around that a person sucked, it was very hard for them to land another group.


What you're describing is mob mentality, which exists - regardless of what expansion we're on. That's why guilds exist. If one guild thought you sucked, you joined another and proved them wrong. Or you tried to get better at the game. That's what guilds are supposed to be about, and still are. Smaller communities within the larger community.

You're also describing bullying. Your solution to this is LFR? To put the person in a larger crowd? You can feel lonely, even in a crowd. LFR doesn't fix this problem, it just shrouds it. LFR just encourages players to be lazy, and feel that they don't have to try to be better. Because the mentality of players now is "I don't need to be better, I just need to hit the level cap and i'm already the best I can be!"

The solution to bullying is to not give the bullies attention. You should know that. You don't give them attention by keep trying to join the same guild who doesn't want you around. You find another guild.

LFR if anything, discourages being in a guild. It makes the game single-player. And that is the undoing of a true MMORPG.
04/24/2016 05:08 AMPosted by Crepe
We really need to stop fixating on single people within Blizzard. One person does not create entire properties. Nor is one person the sole reason why something is great or is something we're not happy with. Just because you know a name of a person in the company doesn't automatically make them the hero or the goat.

[/quote]

Uh, you seem to forget Ghostcrawler, and the absolutely awful job he did for the few years he was running things.
04/25/2016 04:30 PMPosted by Ironsaint
People that say they don't have time to raid normal or higher are kidding them selves. To clear all of HFC LFR with queue times is more than 4 hours. To get a group together and clear all the bosses of VoA was little more than an hour. It dropped tier, trinkets, and had a chance for a mount. It was the perfect game play for the LFR crowd.


Exactly. There were different crowds, so make different tiers for them. And it gave them the chance/gear to integrate themselves into harder, more difficult audiences should they choose to do so. VoA is a perfect example. Karazhan is another.

04/25/2016 04:30 PMPosted by Ironsaint
What is wrong with being told you aren't good enough to complete this content so go practice and get better?


Pretty much. People are so easily offended now, it's unbelievable.
04/25/2016 04:34 PMPosted by Fabermor
Uh, you seem to forget Ghostcrawler, and the absolutely awful job he did for the few years he was running things.


What is it that you think GC ran? He was one of many lead designers. He was just the face of the company to the forums because, unlike other devs, he actually TALKED with us. I admire the guy for what he tried to do.
04/25/2016 04:34 PMPosted by Perky
Like Kaplan said and Ironsaint pointed out, the whole notion of all content being accessible and easy makes the game world feel a lot smaller. And they're right.


My stance is basically summarized as such; nobody likes to be left out.

Maybe you guys have never experienced it, but I have, and it sucks.
04/25/2016 04:55 PMPosted by Tadkins
04/25/2016 04:34 PMPosted by Perky
Like Kaplan said and Ironsaint pointed out, the whole notion of all content being accessible and easy makes the game world feel a lot smaller. And they're right.


My stance is basically summarized as such; nobody likes to be left out.

Maybe you guys have never experienced it, but I have, and it sucks.


And things don't need to be made the same for everyone in order to include everyone. But if everyone needs to see the same content, then the skill levels of everyone would have to be the same. They aren't. Therefore you need to make content exclusive to every skill level. In order to get to the highest skill content, you have to have the hishest skills.
04/25/2016 04:59 PMPosted by Ironsaint
And things don't need to be made the same for everyone in order to include everyone. But if everyone needs to see the same content, then the skill levels of everyone would have to be the same. They aren't. Therefore you need to make content exclusive to every skill level. In order to get to the highest skill content, you have to have the hishest skills.


Under your system, you'd have the masses in VoA and OS while the "cool kids" get to see places like Ulduar and ICC.

Forgive me when I say that I don't like that.
It was stated very well earlier in this thread, and really, this is how MMORPGs should be designed. They are a niche game style for a reason, in my opinion.

"Content shouldn't be for everyone. Everyone should have content."
04/25/2016 05:01 PMPosted by Tadkins
04/25/2016 04:59 PMPosted by Ironsaint
And things don't need to be made the same for everyone in order to include everyone. But if everyone needs to see the same content, then the skill levels of everyone would have to be the same. They aren't. Therefore you need to make content exclusive to every skill level. In order to get to the highest skill content, you have to have the hishest skills.


Under your system, you'd have the masses in VoA and OS while the "cool kids" get to see places like Ulduar and ICC.

Forgive me when I say that I don't like that.


So everyone has to see the exact same content? So what about those that think mythic is too easy? Should there be a mythic+ raid also? Or should it just be LFR and nothing else? I understand I am using hyperbole here, but the system is far from perfect right now. Where does the line get drawn? Why is a guaranteed success even in a game?

No one is kept from content by the system. The VoA and OS crowd is more than welcome to get into a group doing the Ulduar raid. There is nothing but their own will stopping them. Yes, there may be groups that deny them, but there is enough people in this game that there is a group somewhere that will work for you.

The game does not exclude anyone from anything.
04/24/2016 05:08 AMPosted by Crepe
We really need to stop fixating on single people within Blizzard. One person does not create entire properties. Nor is one person the sole reason why something is great or is something we're not happy with. Just because you know a name of a person in the company doesn't automatically make them the hero or the goat.


That may be so, but there has to be someone or some few at the top who have an overall vision for the game for all levels of play and play styles and are flexible enough to drop the dogma in favor of fun. There have been far too many "artistes" of late that have been successful only at creating moldy old paintings on the wall surrounded with impenetrable glass where one looks for a moment and moves on.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum