Unnecessary Nerf to Howl-bomb

Pet Battles
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05/26/2016 09:23 AMPosted by Gwb
05/26/2016 08:44 AMPosted by Ève
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Doesn't help when the OP calls me an arrogant democrat for telling him he needs to look at this from an objective stand point. Why is the OP exempt from this? He's the one who invited this with his ad hominem attacks.

You acted as if the invention of the howl-bomb dropped out of the sky onto youtube, thus overlooking, and giving zero credit to the person that come up with the strat. Your exaggerated sense of self importance in your argument has you under the impression that all else pales in comparison to your glorious insight.
That truly takes arrogance to a magnitude only found in democrats.

What I find amusing is 1 person used the term (ad hominem) in trade somewhere and now everyone wants to jump on the phrases never used bandwagon.
Here's another phrase never used.
Nescient Lemming. Look that up.


Lol... I read about howlbombing (it wasn't called that) before 2013 even hit. It was revolutionary don't get me wrong. But you're making it out like it took a team of the top theorycrafters to realize you could set up several moves to trigger on one turn and then use shattering defences to double the damage. I didn't realize you could use PWS to maximize this, but one of my first pets I bought from the AH was Chrominius precisely because howl->surge of power offered an easy means to destroy most pets 740x2=1480. It was a no-brainer, I didn't even look that up. Sense of self-importance? How the heck is me saying howlbombing is easy do that? If I called myself a genius for figuring it out, sure, but I'm not patting myself on the back at all for discovering something like that.

05/26/2016 09:30 AMPosted by Gwb
And stop encouraging Eve, she has a big enough head as it is, assuming it's a woman at all.


You're so hypocritical I'm beginning to think you're trolling. I mean using terms like crybabies "Whaaburger and some French cries" and whine when your original post can be summed up as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TjmHkVMEdI

At least now I know why you wanted OP to be exempt from insulting others. You're OP. How convenient for you!
05/26/2016 10:10 AMPosted by Ève
You're so hypocritical I'm beginning to think you're trolling. I mean using terms like crybabies "Whaaburger and some French cries" and whine when your original post can be summed up as:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TjmHkVMEdIAt least now I know why you wanted OP to be exempt from insulting others. You're OP. How convenient for you!


Sad little petulant child, your opinion is the only one that's right I guess, therefore you couldn't leave me with mine.
So you think the nerf is good, kudos for you, I disagree.
Placing Geyser and whirlpool on the same attack line nerfs Howl-Bomb already, it's over-kill cutting Howl in half, that only serves to ruin every strat that uses Howl.

As for your theory on Howl + Surge of power, well that's only good as a kill shot because it leaves you recovering thus unable to attack, and unable to switch pets for 2 rounds after you use it.
Opinion =/= Fact
Saying your post is comprised of QQ is a demonstrable fact.

You're more than welcome to say the nerf isn't needed. You're also welcome to disagree with me. It's that you insulted Blizzard for the nerf and insulted me for disagreeing that you're getting backlash.

You reap what you sow.
OP is crying about howl nerf.
He'll eventually get over it.
Let's all move along now.
05/30/2016 08:53 AMPosted by Kronicchief
Sad little petulant child, your opinion is the only one that's right I guess, therefore you couldn't leave me with mine.
So you think the nerf is good, kudos for you, I disagree.
You are the only one being petulant here.
The whole point of having a forum is to interact with others; to share and discuss ideas. If you want to write your precious opinion down somewhere where the big meanies wont discuss its merit (or lack thereof) then you should have put it in your diary.
Don't come here on your high horse when you were not only the one who started slinging mud, but also tried to use an alt to pass yourself off as a different person defending said mud slinging.

Blizzard is always trying to obtain balance in the game. I am certainly not suggesting they always change things for the better, but they are constantly striving for it by tweaking this and that in an effort to make sure that things are fun and yet challenging enough to keep them interesting. Using the same combo again and again and again is not interesting but when it is so easy to use most people will default to it. It's not like they are taking away the ability to defeat the fights where the howlbomb was most popular, just encouraging people to find different solutions. The howlbomb is very, very good and after this nerf it will still be good, just more on par with other such combos. What is so world-endingly terrible about that?
I've only read the first page of this thread, and this is most likely redundant in any case, but I'll put in my five cents here anyway:

The OP seems v agitated about this, and alright change can be hard to take at times and so on, but some points being alleged just don't wash.

The change has NOTHING to do with PVP, there can be no doubt about that. ANY time I see a team with that make-up, and it'll always be for howl bomb, I KNOW right there I"m going to win. For good reason, as I've seen it quite a number of times and have never lost to a team with that strat, in complete honesty, whatever team I may be rolling - doesn't matter a bit. . In fact I've never lost to a team with Chrominius on it, either. The move is SO easy to counter, and then you have the opposition wide open for the kill - you could drive a truck through it, kind of thing. As soon as I see it, I'm shaking my head, every time. The opposing player does not know how to PVP, it says to me.

But in PVE, well hell yes it's used to good effect VERY often. But is is obviously TOO GOOD, when you are using it as often as you do. It's a bit ridiculous if all but one or two maybe I think, tops, of the wild rares are taken out using this method. It's ridiculous, to have them all reduced to nothing by one SO repetitive move set.

So in conclusion, this could hardly be a considered a surprising response by Blizzard. They're not going to see the vast majority of their PVE fights - wild rares, tamers, garrison - made laughable. Well okay, they have for well over a year, but that's City Hall for you.

It wont matter anyway. Within five minutes of new encounters in Legion, someone or a combination of people, will have good strats for all of them worked out and on wowhead or whatever. So no amount of huge research will be required to work our way through them. What it may well do, is make us play with more variety and thereby, greater interest.
05/25/2016 07:18 AMPosted by Alkavar
Zandalari Anklerender (P/B), Anubisath Idol, Chrominius
There's a very slight RNG chance but it's worked 95% of the time, and I've NEVER had to change my team


Yep.

Or the Pandarian Dragon ... team.
Certainly not going to get in argument with OP, he/she seems a bit excitable, but I sorta reluctantly agree that Howl/Bomb deserves nerfing. Reluctantly cause joy of gaming is facing challenges, and when you can mindlessly do Garrison dailies and bunch of trainers while reading newspaper, this isn't much of a challenge. Howl/Bomb sure grinds out the Pet Charms though.
triple zandalari or triple nexus might replace it in a lot of the pve fights (at least the ones without damage blocking)
05/26/2016 08:25 AMPosted by Gwb
05/26/2016 08:18 AMPosted by Darmand
D, may I ask why you're so upset about this?

From where I'm sitting, the anger is way out of proportion. Don't get me wrong, I've been moved to anger before about stuff in pet battles ( and I don't think being angered by something is a weakness either).

I'm just curious as to why you are so incensed by this. Yes it's a nerf to a handy strategy but as you said, it's not the only one that works. I'm not trying to judge if you should be peeved or not. I'm just trying to understand why.


It's not the nerf in general it's the magnitude of the nerf.
Personally I think just doing this: Pandaren Water Spirit's Whirlpool and Geyser now share the same ability slot. is more than enough.
Adding this also: The damage bonus from Howl now only affects one attack, is unnecessary.
Cutting Howl in half is going to ruin every strat involving howl.
Making it so it doesn't effect both Geyser and whirlpool at the same time already does the job of nerfing howlbomb, ruining every strat involving Howl is complete ignorance.
IMHO


I agree that changing Whirlpool and Geyser to share a slot completely ruins the "howl bomb" strategy. (I further agree that removing the option to have three amplified bombs hit at the same time is a good thing. Back in the day, before howl bomb nerf one, you could use an unborn valkyr and use Unholy Ascension, Curse of Doom to make your howl bomb with two amplifiers and four nukes.)

Making Howl be only one attack turn is roughly equivalent to removing Howl and not giving another ability in that slot. I have a team that uses the sequence "Howl, Bite, Surge of Power" for one of the MoP dailies (Air spirit). Quite frankly the result of the change is that I will no longer do that daily because the moth is tedious anyway, and I can't be bothered to think of something new.

I make it a point to work out pet battle pve without looking it up. If I want to farm it for dailies, I may look up a faster way of doing it. After working out a roughly 50 round "heal it to death", strategy vs. the fel mechanical at the HFC entrance with at 50% success rate (pre-raid attendance boss), it was rather disconcerting to realize that everyone was howl bombing them. I did a circuit, and then bought the pets on AH.
ANYBODY THAT HAS SUCCESSFULLY DONE THE CELESTIAL TOURNAMENT ALREADY HAS A CRAP TON OF VARIETY.
My post here was never meant to elicit a bunch of jump on the band wagon "Bash the OP brigade", but that seems to be exactly what has transpired with Eve leading the charge.
As for Eve's comment about my "Attack" on her dear old momma Blizzard, must be her momma cause she ran to her defense lickety split. My distain for Blizzard's devo team is warranted, and NOT, I repeat NOT limited to this issue. This is but one in a long line of moronic overkill changes they have made in the so called name of equality, or balance.

(Hey Blizzard, if you want to balance something start by making Quest givers at quest hubs in areas like crossroads invulnerable to attacks on NON PVP servers, and eliminate lowbie griefing. Then you would be making progress, but I digress.)

Eve in her almighty holier than thou attitude took it upon herself to make herself Blizzard's devo defense system.
As for Eve's comment on my "attack" on her, Oh my I called someone Arrogant, Arrogant. If you don't like the label then change.
And if being called a Democrat is seen as an Insult to you, LMAO change parties, it's obviously something you're ashamed of, and for good reason. LOL
06/07/2016 11:22 AMPosted by Kronicchief
My distain for Blizzard's devo team is warranted, and NOT, I repeat NOT limited to this issue.


http://i.imgur.com/D0xku2d.jpg
Howl bomb was ruining any potential strategy needed in pet battles. Why does it take 3 pages to figure this out lol. The biggest effect this will have on pvp is that I will no longer be able to crush the people who think you can use it in pvp and be effective.
Personally, I'm unsure why they nerfed howl bomb. Why not instead make future challenges immune to howl, stampede, etc.?

Surely, those pose more of a risk to challenges rather than howl bomb itself?

+100% damage for 2 turns with no real down side is much more of a risk to a challenge than the howl bomb strategy itself, which was a legitimate strategy for some of the past tamers, which now will have very few legitimate strategies without hard to obtain pets (or blizzard store pets).

Like, legitimately, just change the +100% skill tooltip to "may not affect certain strong enemies." and make future challenge buffs (whatever the ones in legion have, similar to how the beasts of legend had one, the fel pets had one, etc. say "This pet's defenses cannot be shattered!") Otherwise, someone will eventually just come up with another form of howl bomb using another combination of pets.

I'm not saying Howl Bomb isn't broken. However, to change it now, when so many pet challenges have been balanced around it, without changing those pets to compensate, is ridiculous. They are now old content when the change occurs, and making them essentially harder than new content by doing this is utterly stupid, to be blunt. That'd be like not balancing old raids when you remove talents, skills, etc. that were required. You'd have massive uproars in the forums. It's not okay. You expect us to just get over it.

Making old content harder for the sake of making new content harder, when there's a much simpler way of balancing new content, without making the Pandaren Water Spirit extremely useless at the same time. (On top of this, with these changes, the Pandaren Water Spirit tamer is going to be extremely hard to fight due to her not using both Geyser and Whirlpool anymore)

Reverse this. Make new pets that are intended to be a challenge immune to Howl, Stampede, Call the Pack, etc. Anything that drops a pet's defense more than 25%. (or even any form of defense drop, if it's deemed too much) You want us THINKING about strategy? Give us a reason to. Make us think of strategy. Get rid of the ability for us to lower the enemy's defense. If we have it, we're going to stack it when we can, no matter what.
06/10/2016 03:34 AMPosted by Reinhilde
Personally, I'm unsure why they nerfed howl bomb. Why not instead make future challenges immune to howl, stampede, etc.?

Because the changes required to make this happen would be opaque as hell making it confusing as to why it changes based on who you cast it at, or on the other hand if you designed pets to be defensive to howl bomb specifically, you would have a lot of collateral damage in terms of crushing and nerfing strategies and pets that have nothing to do with howl bomb. The easiest solution is just nerf 2 aspects about it to disarm it and continue making encounters that a wide variety of well thought out strategies can succeed in.

The ideal thought process to me on a new encounter would be:

1) what are the pets weak against
2) can I find a synergy of pets to counter this

instead of

1) does howl bomb work
2) use howl bomb
3) use different third pet to force howl bomb to work
I always thought they'd nerf it by splitting up the move sequence, not by cutting howl in half. I get it why they are doing something about it. I always think I'm taking the easy way out when I use it. Sometimes I'll spend some time figuring out the fight a different way so I don't have to use it. But when I'm tired or don't have a lot of time it is the go to set of moves.
Fair points on both sides, but I agree that the change is unecessary. Most of us have already completed the old/outdated content that the nerf will effect. It concerns me how big of a buff this is to those encounters.

1) Newer players with their small collections will have a much harder time in old content and the guides will be outdated.
2) It encourages the devs to design more lazy copy & paste pet battle encounters like the Tanaan Terrors. I honestly don't want to see a repeat of this.
3) Affects strategies that didn't exploit howlbomb.

In the case of Tanaan terrors, lazy design deserves to be defeated by an equally lazy strategy. That being said, there are non-beast-of-fable-esque battles where howl bomb is used effectively (but not that many). The most important place is 3 out of the 16? battles in the Celestial Tournament. I feel it is both clever & legit in there though, where one bad crit could force you to restart the entire tournament (especially with a small collection). Other than those scenarios where I think using it is fine, I believe that it's only used one or two of the post-nerf garrison dailies. Which, to me, isn't enough of a problem to justify a nerf.
06/11/2016 08:14 AMPosted by Alonnie
Fair points on both sides, but I agree that the change is unecessary. Most of us have already completed the old/outdated content that the nerf will effect. It concerns me how big of a buff this is to those encounters.

1) Newer players with their small collections will have a much harder time in old content and the guides will be outdated.
2) It encourages the devs to design more lazy copy & paste pet battle encounters like the Tanaan Terrors. I honestly don't want to see a repeat of this.
3) Affects strategies that didn't exploit howlbomb.

In the case of Tanaan terrors, lazy design deserves to be defeated by an equally lazy strategy. That being said, there are non-beast-of-fable-esque battles where howl bomb is used effectively (but not that many). The most important place is 3 out of the 16? battles in the Celestial Tournament. I feel it is both clever & legit in there though, where one bad crit could force you to restart the entire tournament (especially with a small collection). Other than those scenarios where I think using it is fine, I believe that it's only used one or two of the post-nerf garrison dailies. Which, to me, isn't enough of a problem to justify a nerf.


Well said, finally a voice of reason in a sea of stupidity.

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