PvP Interview @ 11am PDT, Thursday

Arenas
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06/30/2016 02:26 PMPosted by Malvared
PvP is dead. It was only ever good in BC. Don't know why people keep pushing PvP in a freaking MMO.


Says PvP is dead but plays on Emerald Dream. That's kinda funny.
06/30/2016 02:45 PMPosted by Veranolth
Says PvP is dead but plays on Emerald Dream. That's kinda funny.
He's basicically saying, "PvP is dead because I refuse to leave my garrison." lol
Would have been amazing to see an in depth pvp interview but i doubt anyone really expected it to happen unfortunately. People latch onto any blue statement like its gospel and if something happens that causes a contradiction to the statement everyone goes up in arms. Why would anyone put themselves at risk of this?
@sero q later today??
06/30/2016 02:45 PMPosted by Veranolth
Says PvP is dead but plays on Emerald Dream. That's kinda funny.


I'm a little surprised he's not in Warsong Battalion.
06/30/2016 03:14 PMPosted by Shivins
@sero q later today??
im on a 14 hr shift at work so i wont be home for another 10 hrs if ur still on ill be good to que. 4 days from now ill be free all day to que and the day after

Dude u should make shivs ally so we can que rmd xD
06/30/2016 03:59 PMPosted by Serotønin
Dude u should make shivs ally so we can que rmd xD


or make serotonin horde CAUSE WE GOT BOTH AYYY
is no one else dumbfounded that the only blue post in pvp forum for quite some time is in regards to a prestige question and not one of the hundreds of posts with legitimate pvp questions. Or is this what we have come to expect from the out of touch blizzard team/devs.
06/30/2016 04:07 PMPosted by Civelle
06/30/2016 03:59 PMPosted by Serotønin
Dude u should make shivs ally so we can que rmd xD


or make serotonin horde CAUSE WE GOT BOTH AYYY


Druid horde racials suck and i just boosted a rogue ally :(
06/30/2016 02:31 PMPosted by Kaivax
06/30/2016 12:07 PMPosted by Pestilent
I think the only response I was a little confused on was where they talked about having newer players or 'prestige ranks' queuing into each other.

Maybe I misunderstood the answer, but it sounded as if they said under 10 prestige ranks would be Queue A - Newer players etc, and above level 10 Prestige would be Queue B - More Skilled players, and longer term PvPers.


Honor level 10 and below during your first Prestige. Once you reach Honor level 11 on a character, that character is out of the pool forever.


Appreciate the response, that makes more sense, I actually really like that change, should help players who have never pvped before have some early ease into the system.

I think the only thing I wish was different, was that Rated PvP always had the maximum honor template, I am a casual at best these days in the pvp scene, so I am likely a good target for the prestige system, and having rewards from random BG's etc.

But, I have to admit, I still fully believe Rated PvP should have completely even footing, and honor talents really should be all unlocked upon entering Rated environments, oh well, I get the feeling this is precisely what will be understood by the PvP team after a couple months of Legion.
06/30/2016 05:33 PMPosted by Pestilent
06/30/2016 02:31 PMPosted by Kaivax
...

Honor level 10 and below during your first Prestige. Once you reach Honor level 11 on a character, that character is out of the pool forever.


Appreciate the response, that makes more sense, I actually really like that change, should help players who have never pvped before have some early ease into the system.


That's one of our goals.
06/30/2016 02:26 PMPosted by Malvared
PvP is dead. It was only ever good in BC. Don't know why people keep pushing PvP in a freaking MMO.


It wasn't though?
Why aren't you transparent with your player base, Kaivax?
omg another blue post
Kaivax, why don't you IP ban more of the cheaters who ruin your game consistently
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Appreciate the response, that makes more sense, I actually really like that change, should help players who have never pvped before have some early ease into the system.


That's one of our goals.


Do you know if numbers are going to be well tuned and classes are going to fixed or at least made non brokenly OP BEFORE the first pvp season.

I think I speak for everyone when I say "We are tired of having of having our first pvp season feel more like alpha/beta then the actual alpha/beta."

It has happened every expac so far and everytime it's caused by stupid stuff that people brought up in beta/alpha but were ignored.

Some recent examples of this would be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTALjTZOXTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v3HMCgiGrU

I can also provide examples for the starting season of every other expac too.
06/30/2016 05:35 PMPosted by Kaivax
06/30/2016 05:33 PMPosted by Pestilent
...

Appreciate the response, that makes more sense, I actually really like that change, should help players who have never pvped before have some early ease into the system.


That's one of our goals.


So.... is that why the designers have pruned so many abilities that were actually fun & skillful?
Then don't relearn Honor Talents. Simple. If you want rewards, you've got work for them. It's the same concept in CoD. If you want the rewards from prestiging, you've got to give up all the guns and perks you've earned.


I don't play CoD.

However, I don't find it enjoyable that good gameplay (having a variety of talents that provide PvP depth) and cosmetic rewards are exclusive with the current prestige design. I think prestige should be a system that provides both, but it's set up to be a system where you have one or the other.

I'd rather prestige operate by not resetting talents but having each following rank take longer to unlock. That way you can keep the depth provided by pvp talents, keep working towards cosmetic rewards, and feel like each rank is a more significant achievement than the first.


It preserves longevity in PvP, as well, so while I know you just want to get everything immediately and then bored off your rocker from PvP, this way you'll have to devote time to earning PvP cosmetics and rewards.


I'm not the kind of person that gets bored of PvP if the gameplay is enjoyable. All gear/cosmetic rewards are secondary to me.

Just because there's gear discrepancies doesn't mean that all the sudden WPvP dies.


When the bulk of the people that enjoy WPvP will be in ilvl 810 gear (baseline ilvl from unrated pvp), which is 20 ilvls lower than even LFR gear, yes gear discrepancies will kill WPvP.

There's simply no way to participate in any semblance of fair footing without pushing rating/pveing. Plus, you can't get legendaries, raid trinkets, or set bonuses from PvP. Plus, stat templates don't function in WPvP, so there is no spec balance at all. (Tanks will destroy everything.)

don't think they explicitely said that the ilvl increase will apply to rated play, either, as they mostly focused on random battlegrounds


All past statements have said it will.

I don't like the idea of even a tiny gear discrepancy, but the easiest solution is to simply push rating.


That's not the satisfying solution because 1) PvP is a competitive environment and the rewards only go to a portion of it. And most importantly 2) I don't like rated PvP. I love unrated BGs. I loathe spending 45 minutes in LFG linking achievements just to begin a match. I think the best gear for unrated PvP should be earnable through unrated PvP.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to add another barrier in replacement of gear, but it's not a difficult process to max it out.


Artifacts were announced to be an expansion-long process to unlock. So very difficult to max out.

Pick a main and a couple alts. Don't try to max them all out at the same time.


This is an issue for an RPG game versus other forms of PvP games. It's part of the reason RPG games have such a tiny PvP population. Other games offer a variety of characters/heroes/classes/etc with very little to no need to "unlock" them. You simply can't log in and play a character if it takes 50 hours to level, 50 hours to unlock pvp talents, and months to earn artifact traits.

Don't play an RPG then.


I'd rather advocate for Blizzard to adopt a different design.

And what would previous expansions be in comparison to Legion is Legion is a chore. Were they jobs? Gear progression has gotten SO much easier over the past few expansions than it used to be.


Yes, previous expansions have similarly had too much of a grind for character power. Legion's system is actually a step backward. WoD gearing is easier than the gear+artifact+talent grind in Legion.

06/30/2016 01:50 PMPosted by Kelarica
And a lot of people like that about RPGs.


They are a relatively small, niche group. Look at WoW PvP compared to other games. WoW PvP cannot be called a success.

06/30/2016 01:50 PMPosted by Kelarica
Even if yours is being an obligatory pessimist when faced with one of the best looking expansions we've had since Wrath of the Lich King.


It looks worse from my priorities, that doesn't make me a pessimist.

I don't care about a sense of character power progression because it stalls balanced playing fields. I want fast access to balanced gameplay on a variety of classes. Legion doesn't offer that. Artifact traits will be a major detriment to multi-classing due to the amount of time you have to dedicate to them.
06/30/2016 06:37 PMPosted by Shoegäzer
06/30/2016 05:35 PMPosted by Kaivax
...

That's one of our goals.


So.... is that why the designers have pruned so many abilities that were actually fun & skillful?


Thats always been the reason man as unfortunate as that is. Someone who has no interest in getting better sees 50 keybinds and quits supposedly this will help player retention and attraction despite previous sub loss experience using the exact same god dam strategy.

Blizz its ur core user base that needs retention. We are the ones who have played this game for years through thick and thin. If every single casual left this game its us who remain subbed. Its us who keep the game going. Its us who give your company revenue.

Your core user base is crying out for attention! There are countless posts out there right now that would only need a simple thank you for your feedback we are taking it into consideration to make your customers happier than we currently are.

We really badly want to play your game but even the core user base is decaying because this thing you have created doesnt come close to feeling like the wow of old.
06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
However, I don't find it enjoyable that good gameplay (having a variety of talents that provide PvP depth) and cosmetic rewards are exclusive with the current prestige design. I think prestige should be a system that provides both, but it's set up to be a system where you have one or the other.

I'd rather prestige operate by not resetting talents but having each following rank take longer to unlock. That way you can keep the depth provided by pvp talents, keep working towards cosmetic rewards, and feel like each rank is a more significant achievement than the first.
I agree that they could implement another system that didn't require resetting talents to earn additional cosmetic rewards. However, I think we both will simply disagree on our enjoyment, as even though I'll lose important abilities like Master's Call(second to last talent) I'm complacent with losing out on a maximally effecient talent set-up.

My opinion is subject to change on the matter after Legion rolls out and I can experience the Honor system more thoroughly, of course.

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
I'm not the kind of person that gets bored of PvP if the gameplay is enjoyable. All gear/cosmetic rewards are secondary to me.
The rewards system is really what motivates me to do battlegrounds and Arenas, honestly, which is why I like the changes so much. I can't hop into battlegrounds nowadays without feeling like it's a pointless waste of time.

When the bulk of the people that enjoy WPvP will be in ilvl 810 gear, which is 20 ilvls lower than even LFR gear, yes gear discrepancies will kill WPvP.

There's simply no way to participate in any semblance of fair footing. Plus, you can't get legendaries, raid trinkets, or set bonuses from PvP. Plus, stat templates don't function in WPvP, so there is no spec balance at all. (Tanks will destroy everything.)
Once again, gear descrepancies didn't kill wPvP in MoP during s14, which was probably one of the worst between PvP and PvE gear in the game to date. WPvP isn't fueled by gear equivalency, but rather by the content in the surrounding areas.

No content = not a lot of WPvP. There was tons of content to experience on the Timeless Isle, and they even had a rewards system for grinding PvP kills(bloody coins).

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
All past statements have said it will.
Well poop.

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
That's not the satisfying solution because 1) PvP is a competitive environment and the rewards only go to a portion of it. And most importantly 2) I don't like rated PvP. I love unrated BGs. I loathe spending 45 minutes in LFG linking achievements just to begin a match. I think the best gear for unrated PvP should be earnable through unrated PvP.
I think they're simply using it as a mativational tool to get more people into playing rated PvP, since the pool of rated PvPers has been gradually decreasing as the game loses subscribers in general. I think that has been the purpose of the majority of the changes to PvP progression has been for, honestly. To motivate others to PvP more.

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
Artifacts were announced to be an expansion-long process to unlock. So very difficult to max out.
Well, my proceeding comment holds even more weight then. I'd suggest not trying to max out every class in the game.

This is a direct negative for an RPG game versus other forms of PvP games. It's part of the reason RPG games have such a tiny PvP population. Other games offer a variety of characters/heroes/classes/etc with very little to no need to "unlock" them.
Have you ever played any other MMORPGs? Most MMOs take a while to gear your character out to their maximum potential. It's seems to me like WoW is making a turn towards leniency especially concerning PvP. The artifact weapon grinding seems like a daunting task, but nothing seems worse than grinding 27k conquest, or not even having a conquest catchup cap.

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
I'd rather advocate for Blizzard to adopt a different design.
Progression is inherent in RPGs.

06/30/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
Yes, previous expansions have similarly had too much of a grind for character power. Legion's system is actually a step backward. WoD gearing is easier than the gear+artifact+talent grind in Legion.
You don't need to really even grind gear. You acquire it inherently, it's not a chore to do so, especially considering how small the initial gap is. A 10% increase in power from the absolute smallest to absolute largest ilvls is arbituary in comparison to every expansion before it.

Artifact weapons are the only real grind, and since I do not know exactly how long it takes to max it I will concede that it will take a while to max it out by PvPing, which you can do.

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