Master Loot & Guild Master Loot

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Solving a problem that doesn't exist isn't good for the game, bring back ML.
07/20/2016 03:26 PMPosted by Shaggrath
07/20/2016 03:22 PMPosted by Evillyn
...

You can trade it. Personal loot is now entirely tradeable


It's entirely tradeable only if the item you received is of a lower item level that what you have equipped.


With changes stat priority wont be such a big deal, so if you get something higher - you likely need it.
This change is fantastic. Most PuGs on my servers are reserve groups and several groups very recently have been "put it in ML just before tank friend attacks boss so no one notices" groups. Apart from this, it encourages people to work together. People that are complaining about this change are either those that used it to their personal advantage or that frequently PuG as a pseudo guild. I honestly feel that the changes to personal loot make it the most viable for any of these PuGs since it: A) eliminates the drama of loot assignment in PuGs and B) gives players the opportunity to keep iLvl upgrades and pass on loot they do not need. Personal loot is simply the best choice in the game for non-endgame content.
Why not limit this restriction only to groups made with the Group Finder? Seems like that is where this is needed, and not in groups that are formed by friends.


This is a great idea.
I know this will be downvoted. But after reading through this thread this is what I'm seeing.

People who pug mostly (such as myself) see mostly a benefit from it. As we've been screwed over so many times that we are glad that that will be MUCH harder to do now.

While people who raid in groups are either obsessed with the illusion that seeing a list of loot from a boss is superior...

OR are just miffed that they've lost their ability to con pugs out of a chance for loot. Use the pugs as canon fodder to kill the boss then dispose of them, no loot, not even a chance at loot. And they're upset that they can't just take a item from a unimportant pug to a important guildie. The conning is over peeps. Get over it. We get a fair chance at loot now.
07/20/2016 03:28 PMPosted by Donsanchez
Funny how this announcement brought all the; ninjas, "full runners"(that amazingly all happen to end early as soon as the boss with reserves dies), group stackers, and leaders with absurd reserves out of the woodwork to complain.

I'm none of those things. You're placing labels on us because we disagree with this system. That's childish.
07/20/2016 10:04 AMPosted by Watcher
we've love to hear feedback on how it feels, and what could still be improved.


I'll tell you what i have planned, we won't be carrying people or bringing randos or friends because we lose control of our loot when we do.

I don't know how else to say this but there is one simple reason why we don't like Personal Loot. WE HATE RNG IN OUR GEAR I don't know how many more times it has to be said but we don't want it. The more you force on us the more unhappy were going to be.
07/20/2016 10:04 AMPosted by Watcher
I'd imagine there isn't much of a real concern about ninja-looting in a group of guildmembers and friends that raid together on a regular basis, or is there?


So the group I run with pre 7.0 patch for mythics was 12- 15 guild members and 8 friends from another realm within that group, no ninja looting is not much of a concern.

However... as the expansion wears and attendance wanes, it often became necessary to pick up from LFG a pug or two. I'd like to say I trust everyone I've ever met in LFG to not ninja, but I'd be doing a disservice to my guild and any other pugs in the group.

Can my group switch to personal loot? Yeah sure, no problem. Can't raid Mythic with them anymore after launch anyway *grumble* *grumble.*

But, I can imagine a real concern.

The guild could do loot council or "shudder" DKP. Using loot as an incentive to keep up attendance. It's been 12 years now; we have friends on other realms. For various reasons they might not be willing/able to transfer.

I understand if your reasoning is "There are more pugs being taken advantage of by raids, than raids taken advantage of by pugs," that's a reasonable argument.
07/20/2016 03:28 PMPosted by Evillyn
07/20/2016 03:26 PMPosted by Shaggrath
...

It's entirely tradeable only if the item you received is of a lower item level that what you have equipped.


With changes stat priority wont be such a big deal, so if you get something higher - you likely need it.

with what changes? stat priority is always going to be important.
07/20/2016 03:09 PMPosted by Pengalor
You don't seem to get it. Right NOW is where there are alternative options. This change forces certain groups to accept terms they don't want. Right now you are free to choose whatever loot system you like. Then again, you also seem to think ninja looting is a widespread problem so I'm guessing you don't pug all that much.


Being screwed means you're out of options.

In this case you are not out of options. You are out of options you like. But there are valid options. 2 in fact. Need before greed, or personal loot. You don't have to like them, but they're there. As such you are not screwed. You are stubborn.
Unless Stat weights across the board are within 0.1 of eachother (which for many classes, aren't) or agi/int/str plays such an important role in the gear, you're most likely going to opt for a better itemized piece, despite the drop in 5-15ilvls. Also, tier.
Just to clarify, there are more than two loot options here. No one's forcing raids to use Personal Loot, just because Master is off the table. (Though I am requesting that people give it a try and let us know what you think, since there have been significant improvements. Or don't. Your choice.)

As a player, in my own guild raids, we've used Need/Greed for as long as I can remember, sometimes just passing on contested stuff, figuring out who should get it, and then having them loot it. Uncontested stuff just gets Needed and ends up in the player's hands immediately. It always seemed simpler than manually assigning each piece. But maybe we're weird.

If you aren't a guild group, other Group-Loot-based methods remain available for your use in raids (both Need/Greed and FFA). Obviously that opens the door to ninja-looting, which is why I asked about that concern in my first post. But if you aren't worried that one of your friends/guildmates is going to steal something and vanish, then the only loss is the slight of inconvenience people needing to loot items off a corpse, or having someone trade items around to whoever's awarded them. I of course understand the desire to avoid any inconvenience, and we've tried to minimize the impact on static raiding groups, but we feel that curbing harmful uses (and abuses) of Master Loot in pickup groups is a benefit that offsets those costs.
07/20/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Watcher
I of course understand the desire to avoid any inconvenience, and we've tried to minimize the impact on static raiding groups, but we feel that curbing harmful uses (and abuses) of Master Loot in pickup groups is a benefit that offsets those costs.


Mission accomplished. Love the change, thanks!
07/20/2016 03:28 PMPosted by Baddeh
Adults being synonymous with 'mature people


But they aren't. Not in practically. Those words aren't synonymous. I'd also consider most thieves to be "mature people". While someone else might consider someone who plays a video game no matter how they behave in it not a "mature" person. /shrugs.

07/20/2016 03:28 PMPosted by Donsanchez
Funny how this announcement brought all the; ninjas, "full runners"(that amazingly all happen to end early as soon as the boss with reserves dies), group stackers, and leaders with absurd reserves out of the woodwork to complain.


Yep. And people who are under the rose tinted glasses that master loot is inherently better.
07/20/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Watcher
Just to clarify, there are more than two loot options here. No one's forcing raids to use Personal Loot, just because Master is off the table. (Though I am requesting that people give it a try and let us know what you think, since there have been significant improvements. Or don't. Your choice.)

Come on Watcher, there's only one loot option for serious raid groups, and that's Master Loot. This change completely disenfranchises all serious raid groups that are not occurring in a guild context
07/20/2016 10:31 AMPosted by Dyeus
You can spin it any way you want, one of the bigger effects of this change is to not only kill any group selling mounts from raids, but also kill any group that would be out together to farm a mount from an old raid boss.

I really don't u derstand why you think providing players with less choices is somehow good for this game or community. Just another instance of throwing the baby out with thr bath water.

Basically this. For a very long time I created pug raids where I was the master looter, the mounts were always mine and I always offered a fair sum for them all. Everyone was aware and everyone agreed.

I also buy mounts often, with no master looter option I now have to hope that everyone in the guild also agrees to sell to me. Since it's often I have to pre-pay, I just no longer would want to take that chance, even with guilds I have run with before.

It comes down to one fact, do I trust everyone in the raid group? Never. I came back to enjoy the pre-patch, with no early access to demonhunters and no pre-event, I feel cheated out of my early resubbing. It seems like world of warcraft is becoming something I don't know anymore, and it breaks my heart to see this.
07/20/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Watcher
(Though I am requesting that people give it a try and let us know what you think, since there have been significant improvements. Or don't. Your choice.)

We know how personal loot works. We've known for a very long time. It is a poor loot method that only has uses in a full PuG environment, where nobody can be trusted. The idea of trading is a nice addition, but still has huge design flaws. Why restrict it to items lower in ilvl? It really sounds like you guys think ilvl>stats by the way this system works.

ML is objectively better when you're grouped with friends (or in a partial guild run). You know this. You're letting the vocal minority influence the game too much. Ninjas are not common. Complaining is too common.
07/20/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Watcher
ut we feel that curbing harmful uses (and abuses) of Master Loot in pickup groups is a benefit that offsets those costs.


As I said watcher. I rarely agree with you. But I agree so extremely much with you right now. I hardly ever raid because I've had bad experience either being berated or have supposed "Free roll" loot ninja'd or both. Every now and again I try again and I remember why I hadn't pugged all throughout WoD. I've only ever had 2 good pugging experiences. One was with a full guild to which I was friends with the leader. I won a fair /roll on master loot. The other was a complete pug not sure if they were a guild group but I had my fair chance at loot even though I lost. Other than that every other experience has been negative usually resulting in ninja loot, or the last time I tried to raid HFC normal I was heavily berated and treated like crap, but hey I got my fair chance at loot! (even though I lost).
07/20/2016 03:40 PMPosted by Treehc
Mission accomplished. Love the change, thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/Oj6sllR.jpg It's over guys lets all go home.
07/20/2016 03:28 PMPosted by Donsanchez
Awesome! I actually suggested this in early legion, then again mid-legion. Happy to see Blizz decided to implement it.

Funny how this announcement brought all the; ninjas, "full runners"(that amazingly all happen to end early as soon as the boss with reserves dies), group stackers, and leaders with absurd reserves out of the woodwork to complain.


I think it's funny how your side's only argument seems to be that only people who abuse the system could be defending it besides plenty of evidence in this thread alone that most of the people are concerned about raiding with cross-realm guilds or with friends.

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