Camera changes causing nausea (Not max zoom)

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It has to do with the way game calculates your position, and the latency in game servers to respond to your position.

The game doesn't pinpoint your exact position until you do something like stop. Try running out of building and then go bird form, it'll say you cant do that here, depending on the game servers latency you can continue to run a pretty far ways and the game still thinks your indoors.

However if you run out the building, stop, and your able to go flight form right off. Most decisions that seem to make no sense to players are given the blizz 'spin' treatment, in this case there's a technical reason for limiting camera view distance that has to do with the new max distance and level of detail algorithms.

I suspect an unexpected result in these new 'features' has made the camera and server latency has something to do with it and it's far too late for them to fix without adding more hardware to reduce server latency.
A *very* interesting theory.

I have definitely noticed more rubber-banding type behavior since 7.0, but it appears that movement is still calculated client side as always despite that (disconnects still don't prevent you from running around, which is generally a hallmark of games that make the poor choice of making character movement server side).
07/23/2016 09:20 AMPosted by Greatot
Yeah guys, when I saw the camera changes my head literally exploded and my entire house was set on fire.

Such a terrible tragedy, truly a loss to all of humanity, we need to make more threads about it.


The funny thing is that this guy has 150 comments that only troll other people's discussions of what's wrong. The real question is whether he actually plays the game or just hates the people that still do and are trying to make it better.
Just dropping this here from another thread:

I think I figured out at least part of the problem.

Players and mounts aren't rotating around their root/center point now, but by either edge of their bounding/hit box.

Easiest way to see this is to get on the Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, point your camera straight down and hold it there, then keyboard turn. Instead of spinning on its own axis like it used to, it kinda wobbles on one of the edges. It's not as noticeable on foot, but there does seem to be a subtle shift there too.

Since the camera is linked to the player's pivot, the whole view's rotation is being shifted as you turn. Flying around wildly on the cloud disc will also demonstrate this. Such off-center rotation can trigger sim/motion sickness in some people.

I know there were a bunch of people who had problems playing the last few Elder Scrolls/Fallout games in third person until centered camera mods were made.


Original can be found here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747705400?page=4#74.

I know this is probably the same issue about how the camera attaches to and tracks our characters now, but I found this to be a particularly useful, reproducible example.
To anyone who gets motion sickness, avoid Throne of the Four Winds. Al'akir does a tornado move going into the 3rd phase.

Before prepatch it fixed you camera above the tornado to show you things.

Now the camera is fixed to your character. I'm not prone to motion sickness and that ridiculous whirling made me dizzy.
07/24/2016 08:29 PMPosted by Keyimin
Just dropping this here from another thread:

I think I figured out at least part of the problem.

Players and mounts aren't rotating around their root/center point now, but by either edge of their bounding/hit box.

Easiest way to see this is to get on the Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, point your camera straight down and hold it there, then keyboard turn. Instead of spinning on its own axis like it used to, it kinda wobbles on one of the edges. It's not as noticeable on foot, but there does seem to be a subtle shift there too.

Since the camera is linked to the player's pivot, the whole view's rotation is being shifted as you turn. Flying around wildly on the cloud disc will also demonstrate this. Such off-center rotation can trigger sim/motion sickness in some people.

I know there were a bunch of people who had problems playing the last few Elder Scrolls/Fallout games in third person until centered camera mods were made.


Original can be found here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747705400?page=4#74.

I know this is probably the same issue about how the camera attaches to and tracks our characters now, but I found this to be a particularly useful, reproducible example.


I posted something similar on the beta forums. I am pretty sure this is what is causing my issues. Off centered and moving center point of the camera. Noticeable most with flying mounts. Just rotate the camera around and you can see it wobble. Awful.

The new flying animations don't help either.
Azurefel, I just want to say thank you for all the work that you are doing to help everyone who is experiencing these problems. After continuing to read your posts, and all the variables you are checking, I want to give you a "salute" to the dedication you are giving to this and for communicating to Blizzard on Twitter.

10,000 thumbs up!
First and foremost, please know that this is a topic of discussion and development across multiple teams here. We have teammates who are sensitive to motion sickness. We care very much about making sure playing our game doesn’t make you – or them – feel unwell.

Although the maximum camera distance changes are the most immediately noticeable, there were several less-apparent changes made to how the camera functions in the pre-expansion patch, and we’ve already identified some cases where those changes may be causing issues. Here’s a few examples:

  • We’ve found an issue with camera shake effects, which we’re currently working to hotfix (if you’ve run Bloodmaul Slag Mines since the patch, you’ve likely noticed this one).
  • There was a systemic change to our graphical renderer which changes the way FoV is calculated. Manually resizing the viewable game area (which is usually done via “viewport” addons) may be affecting the game camera differently than before. We have identified the cause of this issue and are actively addressing it.
  • We’re also tracking down some vehicle-related camera bugs.

We believe that underlying issues like these are the actual source of many of the motion sickness concerns. To that end, if you find yourself feeling ill in-game, examples of where you were and what you were doing at the time would be very useful for helping us track down exactly what’s causing the issue, especially if you can provide video footage so that we can see what the camera was doing at the time.

This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.

Thank you very much.
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.


Why not just put it back to where it was before?
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
First and foremost, please know that this is a topic of discussion and development across multiple teams here. We have teammates who are sensitive to motion sickness. We care very much about making sure playing our game doesn’t make you – or them – feel unwell.

Although the maximum camera distance changes are the most immediately noticeable, there were several less-apparent changes made to how the camera functions in the pre-expansion patch, and we’ve already identified some cases where those changes may be causing issues. Here’s a few examples:

  • We’ve found an issue with camera shake effects, which we’re currently working to hotfix (if you’ve run Bloodmaul Slag Mines since the patch, you’ve likely noticed this one).
  • There was a systemic change to our graphical renderer which changes the way FoV is calculated. Manually resizing the viewable game area (which is usually done via “viewport” addons) may be affecting the game camera differently than before. We have identified the cause of this issue and are actively addressing it.
  • We’re also tracking down some vehicle-related camera bugs.

We believe that underlying issues like these are the actual source of many of the motion sickness concerns. To that end, if you find yourself feeling ill in-game, examples of where you were and what you were doing at the time would be very useful for helping us track down exactly what’s causing the issue, especially if you can provide video footage so that we can see what the camera was doing at the time.

This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.

Thank you very much.


Or you could just revert the change that no one wanted and that caused all of these issues. There's a thought.
07/25/2016 04:27 PMPosted by Virus
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.


Why not just put it back to where it was before?


Because that would require them admitting they were wrong about these changes.
07/25/2016 04:27 PMPosted by Virus
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.


Why not just put it back to where it was before?


Seems like the motion sickness is related to graphical/rendering changes, not the zoom itself.
Or you could just revert the change that no one wanted and that caused none of these issues. There's a thought.


Because if its not broken you keep trying to fix it until it is broken.

Blizzard philosophy 101
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
We’ve found an issue with camera shake effects, which we’re currently working to hotfix (if you’ve run Bloodmaul Slag Mines since the patch, you’ve likely noticed this one).


Why are there camera shake effects in the first place? Pretty much every game I've played had a graphics option to turn off shaky-cam or head-bob.
07/25/2016 04:27 PMPosted by Virus
07/25/2016 04:25 PMPosted by Ornyx
This issue is very important to us, and we’re working hard on investigating and correcting it as quickly as possible. Any examples you can send us are very much appreciated.


Why not just put it back to where it was before?


Blizzard never goes backwards. They will update what they have now but a full revert?

I don't ever see them doing that.
07/25/2016 04:29 PMPosted by Spicyfrost
07/25/2016 04:27 PMPosted by Virus
...

Why not just put it back to where it was before?


Seems like the motion sickness is related to graphical/rendering changes, not the zoom itself.


Tomato, tomahto. We didn't ask for an action cam nor sweeping graphical changes nor the zoom issue, nor UI options removal.
Ornyx,

Thank you very much for updating.

I've been posting in the other thread on what was being done (troubleshooting) and what made me ill.

My settings including my monitor size and such:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747735605?page=16#304

Two variables that I was working with. I just added ffxglow 0.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747735605?page=3#59

Yesterday's testing result:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747735605?page=3#49

Flying is still an issue with me so I've been using flightmasters and going afk whenever I could.

Edit to add: I forgot to mention about LFR Tyrant fight today. The brightness of spells and such made my eyes hurt to the point where I could feel a headache coming on afterwards - that's why I changed ffxglow 0.
07/25/2016 04:30 PMPosted by Tetsubin
Why are there camera shake effects in the first place? Pretty much every game I've played had a graphics option to turn off shaky-cam or head-bob.


It's a console setting ironically
07/25/2016 04:29 PMPosted by Spicyfrost
07/25/2016 04:27 PMPosted by Virus
...

Why not just put it back to where it was before?


Seems like the motion sickness is related to graphical/rendering changes, not the zoom itself.


I don't get motion sickness from the camera change, just the urge to keep trying to zoom out to my normal position. I hate being forced to play zoomed in closer than the distance that has become normal to me for so many years.

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