Anyone Word on Headache/Motion sickness?

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07/24/2016 12:31 PMPosted by Cherlirra
I didn't realize WoW was supposed to be played like Age of Empires.

All you people seriously play with your camera zoomed out that far?

Considering that WoW has always been generous with max camera distance (even after the changes), how do you all even play other MMOs or video games?


This isn't an issue with camera distance, it's an issue with how the camera moves and tracks the player. It's most obvious for people not sensitive to motion sickness and the like when doing the bosses Alysrazor and Al'Akir. The former is like someone dropping the camera repeatedly and with the latter the camera spins around like a top. It's pretty hard on the eyes and was not present before the patch.
One factor I'm wondering about, that I haven't heard *ANYONE* mention, is the increase in image density -- higher resolutions -- especially seeing into the distance.

This was one of the things Blizz said was going to happen in the Legion release: the ability to see far into the distance.

Does it seem to anyone else, that there's already been a change there?

Does higher resolution mean the bounciness (the language editor will not let me use the word jig gl ing -- edits it out, as if I am swearing) that was ALWAYS THERE might be much more perceivable? Like, little background bounciness, constant when we move, that we really didn't notice before, are now NOTICABLE bounciness, at least to our semiconscious motion perception???

If that's a factor, then the solution might not be easy to program: SMOOTHING OF MOTIONS.
Or, perhaps: LOWER-RES of background WHILE IN MOTION.
I have pinpointed my specific issue is not being able to zoom out while flying. I guess it is something i have always subconsciously done, now that i can't i will mount up to fly get in the air, try to zoom out and get sick. I cant say that is what is wrong with everyone else, since it seems to be diff issues. So i just make people summon me everywhere. Or if i have to fly i just point in the direction and close my eyes... Kinda a dumb solution and i hope they let me zoom out again.
07/24/2016 10:34 AMPosted by Nakunda
Your right it may matter to some, but motion sickness? Get real lmfao


Do you not understand that everyone is not exactly like you? Did you somehow miss this fundamental concept of reality or do you just completely lack the imagination to grasp anything outside of your narrow little experience?

You are being really rude, and making yourself look stupid.

A few years ago I climbed off my Harley, walked to my back porch, and had a stroke. They still don't know why, since I was young and had no big risk factors at all. But all it took was one tiny blood clot in the back of my brain and suddenly the whole world was spinning all the time. I couldn't walk at all.

Since my recovery, I can't play several video games because of motion sickness. I was once able to ride any amusement ride, walk around on boats in rough seas, and never get sick. Now I can't look at my phone in the car. I feel that I got off lucky. I simply acquired motion sickness.

A fair amount of people are born with a susceptibility to motion sickness. And yes, a few changes to how the camera tracks a character in WoW can make a huge difference for those people. I haven't played for any time at all since the patch. It gives me a headache. Other people report that it is even worse for them.

I think the camera distance issue might or might not be part of the problem. I think it is something else, something about running animations and the camera tracking. To me it feels like the camera isn't quite sticking tightly to my character, and though it is subtle, it really bothers me. I really cannot pinpoint what the problem is. I wish I could.

Whatever it is, people shouldn't be mocked because this is a real game-breaking issue for some players. And those of you who dismiss these concerns would be howling bloody murder if a change in the game made it actually unplayable for you.
Tried that too. (action cam off command)

I actually think more of it is coming from the new rendering than anything else...

The game is just harder to look at.. makes my eyes sting now... no matter how much I muck around with settings, it's never quite right..

I used to just chuck everything as high as I could whilst maintaining a decent frame rate.

Is anyone else finding their character spins too easily now and they're having to reduce the 'mouse look speed'?

I know the primary forum focus has been on the camera zoom cap, and while I completely agree the old 3.4 cap was the way to go... as we're saying here - camera behaviour may have even more to do with it....

Funky camera behaviour panning across these new, eye straining graphics - may be the combo that's causing such wide spread issues.

It's just so hard to tell...

I used an addon to put a border at the bottom of the screen so I could resize the view port... this grants you back just beyond the WoD level of zoom... neat trick huh... it almost makes playing a Tauren as fair zoom wise as playing any other race at present.

I know there have been extensive posts about how to letterbox the game window to an even greater degree.. but I thought it would be worth a go... I definitely find being a bit further back from my Tauren a relieving feeling... but it's at the cost of some more screen real estate.

I'm not sure if re-sizing the viewport had the side effect of increasing my horizontal mouse speed or if that's just come with the patch... there couldn't have been a worse time for it if so, since the new camera is bad enough without an overly sensitive mouse...

Even with the mouse look speed right down via script, the left to right steer of my toon/camera together seems way lighter and less static than usual. Like it's almost mimicking a bit of the new 'neck dive' effect seen on the flying mounts.

I feel like even if I could zoom back out to 3.4/50 on the patch, it would be a relief from some of the claustrophobic feeling and motion issues perhaps... but not my issues with the textures and cam tracking.

If I was Blizz and was reading all these posts freaking out so close to launch... I would want to put a build back on the PTR and Live that uses the WoD rendering techniques, the WoD camera settings exactly as they were, and re-allows the 3.4 zoom Cvar... and listen to feedback.

It would determine whether or not playing at the prior max zoom is the problem solver, or if people who weren't having issues at that zoom level before the patch - still are.

I guess the rendering one is the hardest for them to just change back but it may be the biggest problem of the lot.

The zoom script returning or a longer UI slider being implimented should be a no brainer for gameplay even BEFORE you consider all of the health issues people have been having since Beta began.

If it really was just changed for competitive reasons, health should outweigh that (as should player preference) - re-allowing that CVar should be the easiest revert of the lot...

I know Ion's copped more flack for calling the long zoom a bandaid fix... as there are a ton of reasons we should be allowed to keep it anyway... but he may be right in that there is a deeper underlying problem...

Though motion sickness suffereres were already taking advantage of the game's 3.4 capped 'public class camera' - I feel like a whole new group of people would be having issues now, even at max zoom - due to the other changes.

Long story short... none of this core stuff was broken in WoD.. it now is...and all in the name of modern rendering techniques, a more 'action' orientated camera, competitive parity and art appreciation.

None of that stuff matters much if a fair percentage of players can't even enjoy looking at the game.
07/24/2016 12:49 PMPosted by Inyanga
One factor I'm wondering about, that I haven't heard *ANYONE* mention, is the increase in image density -- higher resolutions -- especially seeing into the distance.

This was one of the things Blizz said was going to happen in the Legion release: the ability to see far into the distance.

Does it seem to anyone else, that there's already been a change there?

Does higher resolution mean the bounciness (the language editor will not let me use the word jig gl ing -- edits it out, as if I am swearing) that was ALWAYS THERE might be much more perceivable? Like, little background bounciness constantly when we move, that we really didn't notice before, are now NOTICABLE bounciness, at least to our semiconscious motion perception???

If that's a factor, then the solution might not be easy to program: SMOOTHING OF MOTIONS.
Or, perhaps: LOWER-RES of background WHILE IN MOTION.


This is exactly what the StarCraft engine is optimized for. Please see my post on the previous page.
Honestly it's not effecting me in that way at all but I dislike the fact that Blizzard made the Zoom change. I dislike the fact that they made a change that seriously effects their customers in a really bad way for only a very minor reason.

I think Blizzard needs to suck it up, admit they made an error and revert the change immediately. I don't see how they can sit there and read all the complaints about it and do nothing.
07/24/2016 12:53 PMPosted by Callyabluff
s anyone else finding their character spins too easily now and they're having to reduce the 'mouse look speed'?


This was a big chunk of my problems. I was fortunate enough to be able to adjust it with the slider.

Another thing that helped me was turning off ground clutter in the in game settings (sorry not logged in right now to look up the exact method). All those moving grasses and plants were making things much worse for me.

I should probably add that I wasn't getting full tilt motion sick. Mine was extreme eyestrain leading to headaches.
Too be honest I also have been feeling a bit under the weather while playing, slightly dizzy, and a sick feeling to my stomach. I thought I was just getting sick but when I wake up in the morning I feel fine. It doesn't start in until I start playing. Its not like it has me bed ridden or anything like that. its mostly just a slight feeling of it.
One factor I'm wondering about, that I haven't heard *ANYONE* mention, is the increase in image density -- higher resolutions -- especially seeing into the distance.

This was one of the things Blizz said was going to happen in the Legion release: the ability to see far into the distance.

Does it seem to anyone else, that there's already been a change there?

Does higher resolution mean the bounciness (the language editor will not let me use the word jig gl ing -- edits it out, as if I am swearing) that was ALWAYS THERE might be much more perceivable? Like, little background bounciness constantly when we move, that we really didn't notice before, are now NOTICABLE bounciness, at least to our semiconscious motion perception???

If that's a factor, then the solution might not be easy to program: SMOOTHING OF MOTIONS.
Or, perhaps: LOWER-RES of background WHILE IN MOTION.


This is exactly what the StarCraft engine is optimized for. Please see my post on the previous page.


Ok, I must've skipped page 3, when I said no-one had mentioned it. (I do think I contributed to the conversation, though.) In any case -- fascinating -- thanks.

((P.S. I also wonder if this higher-res could be a factor in the *major* server lag I'm seeing today (Sunday)... even on a low-pop server (Ravenholdt).))
I am not going to say that the camera distance is the definite problem, but it does play a role. With the old console max distance I could look at a more downward angle, not the extreme of top down, as compared to the new max distance forcing me to look from a more direct head on angle. This causes all motion to be more extreme and more similar to being inside of a moving vehicle which triggers the motion sickness.

So far the only time I have experience motion sickness in beta or live pre-patch was when I was flying from one fp to another. Something that has never happened before in 12+ years of playing WoW.
07/24/2016 12:59 PMPosted by Inyanga
...

This is exactly what the StarCraft engine is optimized for. Please see my post on the previous page.


Ok, I must've skipped page 3, when I said no-one had mentioned it. (I do think I contributed to the conversation, though.) In any case -- fascinating -- thanks.


Yes you actually did, thank you!!
07/24/2016 12:59 PMPosted by Inyanga
((P.S. I also wonder if this higher-res could be a factor in the *major* server lag I'm seeing today (Sunday)... even on a low-pop server (Ravenholdt).))


I don't know if it causes the lag but I can say when lagging like farstriders was this morning the game becomes VERY choppy which makes the eyestrain/headache potential grow exponentially.

I had to log out earlier than I planned because of it.
I think I figured out at least part of the problem.

Players and mounts aren't rotating around their root/center point now, but by either edge of their bounding/hit box.

Easiest way to see this is to get on the Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, point your camera straight down and hold it there, then keyboard turn. Instead of spinning on its own axis like it used to, it kinda wobbles on one of the edges. It's not as noticeable on foot, but there does seem to be a subtle shift there too.

Since the camera is linked to the player's pivot, the whole view's rotation is being shifted as you turn. Flying around wildly on the cloud disc will also demonstrate this. Such off-center rotation can trigger sim/motion sickness in some people.

I know there were a bunch of people who had problems playing the last few Elder Scrolls/Fallout games in third person until centered camera mods were made.
07/24/2016 10:24 AMPosted by Forben
07/24/2016 10:20 AMPosted by Nakunda
The camera distance is really not that far off on max settings from how it was in WoD

Incorrect. It's way off.

07/24/2016 10:20 AMPosted by Nakunda
This game has much bigger problems to fix than a tiny difference in the max camera distance and it's really just a pathetic and petty thing to complain about. Stop being a bunch of pussies and go outside for once.

Can't tell if troll or serious.

The camera distance does matter. Just because it doesn't to you doesn't mean it won't matter to others.


If you didn't use the add on it's not "way off."
07/24/2016 10:58 AMPosted by Trevalon
I turned off the Action Camera and set my slider to make zoom out and the headaches went away.

The action camera is off by default and the default camera zoom is roughly half of what was possible before.
I think I figured out at least part of the problem.

Players and mounts aren't rotating around their root/center point now, but by either edge of their bounding/hit box.

Easiest way to see this is to get on the Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, point your camera straight down and hold it there, then keyboard turn. Instead of spinning on its own axis like it used to, it kinda wobbles on one of the edges. It's not as noticeable on foot, but there does seem to be a subtle shift there too.

Since the camera is linked to the player's pivot, the whole view's rotation is being shifted as you turn. Flying around wildly on the cloud disc will also demonstrate this. Such off-center rotation can trigger sim/motion sickness in some people.

I know there were a bunch of people who had problems playing the last few Elder Scrolls/Fallout games in third person until centered camera mods were made.


I hadn't noticed until now, but you're right. There seems to be something very off about the pivot. That might be the problem right there - at least for motion sickness.
07/24/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Blazingsolar
during the Al'akir fight during stage three my camera spazzed out and just went in circles.

Can confirm that it is still doing this, flying phase happened and the camera spazzed out and started spinning. The fact that the floor was breaking apart really didn't help it either.
I'm suffering headaches, sore eyes/eye strain and nausea as well. With the camera moved in, the fov is decreased, this is part of the problem.

The rest to me seems to be that everything is slightly blurry until you are right up on top of it. It's like DoF (Depth of Field) is being applied lightly to anything further than 5 feet away. Whatever it is, things are not clear and crisp like they were in Warlords. I've tried dx9 and dx11, as well as every different setting available. I also tried different GPU driver versions. I deleted my WTF and Interface folders, no help :(

Here's an article about how the new visuals were supposed to look.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/20139979/engineer%E2%80%99s-workshop-extended-draw-distance-6-3-2016

Previously in Warlords, I could use console commands and see far off in the distance and everything looked great. Now, it's just nauseating.
Uh... Not entirely sure what's causing the motion sickness, seeing as how the camera distance and FOV has remained the same and the ActionCam is purely optional.

If you didn't have motion sickness in WoD, what's causing it now?

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