Not Happy With Demo ATM - A Rant

Warlock
So I've been a demo lock since I started playing end of wrath. Just has always been my schtick. Almost never use it for PVP, where I'm always Aff or Destro.

Demo just isn't fun anymore. With Aff or even Destro atm, I still feel like I'm doing ~damage~ you know? Aff's current rotation, the upkeep of dots, the decent RNG aspect, it's fun. I'm personally happy with Aff for the most part. Destro's rotation was gutted as we all saw coming, and it hits for less, but there's still a modicum of choice and dynamics in terms of play style. Not to mention in terms of aesthetics (sue me), Destro is still on top of the other two.

Demo however. Hand of Gul'dan summoning exclusively Imps is god-boring. Dreadstalkers with a cast time, on cool down, AND casting soul shards with no bang to their buck? Terrible. Doom is lackluster. An incredibly slow dot that doesn't do enough damage fast enough to really impress anyone.

And then quality of life. What with Doom's weak duration that requires obnoxious upkeep, and the gimmicky feel of our core rotation, and the fact EVERYTHING costs soul shards except shadowbolt/demonbolt and doom? Demonwrath I've ignored because it's useless except for low level mobs and grinding rep. My AOE is absolute trash now. And then with Green Fire implementation! I get it, the Head Warlock Dev was booted from the team, maybe you're feeling bitter, I know the feeling, but why was green HoG never implemented? Green demonwrath never made? Green demonbolt never made? Why was Malefic Grasp not made the default filter of Drain Life, make the Aff version of Drain Life Malefic Grasp that can be updated to Drain Soul, or vice versa? Why is Rain of Fire gimped and costing three soul shards? What is the point of any of this? Don't you see the person you forced to leave was actually taking care of us warlocks? That we were happy and excited? That we were no longer bitter about Blizzard ignoring and/or mistreating us for years?

Consider the Dark Apotheosis fiasco. Consider the time you took Soul Harvest and then IN THE SAME PATCH gave the mechanic/graphic to mages. Consider the loss of simply basic vanity like the Verdant Spheres, where other classes get a spellbook toy, we got NOTHING.

Why is it, that in the expansion that is most centered on DEMONS whose main character is the quintessential WARLOCK were demonology warlocks thrown under the bus? Did you intentionally gimp us so that our vaguely increased numbers would abandon ship for the sake of Demon Hunter?

Like I get with a full artifact there will be a lot more dynamics involved in demonology, like the stacking buff per dead imp, etc, but truly? All the fun, flavor, and life in demonology has been ripped from its form.

Far from pruning, Blizzard chopped down the whole tree and planted a weed in its place.
They want us to reroll.

Blizzard messed up bad with locks, and didn't give them the time of day during testing.

Celestalon/Sigma/Ion still have not commented on the current status of the class.

Keep showing you guys are upset, just don't expect any acknowledgement or changes for a long time.
Affliction is honestly pretty bad too. Literally all you do is refresh dots now. There's no interesting synergy at all. It's so sad.
I'm not exactly too thrilled about Demonology right now myself.

The 4 piece set in live (especially with the class trinket from Archimonde) encourages you to spam Hand of Gul'dan. Gameplay becomes very bland.

Even without being gimped by the boredom of the 4 piece + trinket rotation, Demonology still feels pretty boring. I mean, we can certainly swarm our opponents with demons (imps and dreadstalkers), but it doesn't feel like it's been put together well.

I get that the demons we summon have to disappear quickly because it would be ridiculous to have them stay with us for a longer period of time.. but what we have now feels boring and clunky. We can already summon imps and felstalkers as core pets, but Blizzard gives us more imps and felstalker variants to summon?

In the past, while this was available for all warlock specs, we had interesting spells such as Ritual of Doom and Inferno. These spells were very powerful at one point in time but they also had an element of risk to them ~ considering the Doomguard required a certain number of players to summon and even required one to be sacrificed at one point in time. Furthermore, both demons would break free after a certain amount of time. Now, Summon Doomguard and Summon Infernal are boring damage cooldowns.

I was hoping for some variety with Demonology, but the spec seems to be centered around maximizing your active number of demons. I wish we could have been given a choice to play swarmy or focus on one empowered or two permanent demons.

I noticed, at one point in a beta build or two, warlocks had a talent to summon a Dreadlord. Can you imagine being able to summon a powerful, but cunning Dreadlord that would turn on you if it noticed that it had an opportune moment to break free?

What about a Pit Lord? There are a few smaller and weaker Pit Lords out in the world. You've greatly reduced the size of our Infernals and Doomguards (especially to other players ~ they're basically kid-sized) anyway. Let the Pit Lord try to break away a few times after a minute or two until it becomes permanently immune to enslave demon after it's been active for a certain amount of time?

We're supposed to summon demons and utilize powerful but risky and dangerous magic. Aside from summoning demons, it sure doesn't feel like we're using powerful but risky magic. The only risky ability we have as Demonology locks is Life Tap, which feels like more of an annoying burden, considering we burn through our mana like crazy. Sure, we do some great damage now with our 4 piece and class trinket, but our damage right now is based on a gimped rotation that pretty much neglects Call Dreadstalkers and focuses on getting out imps as fast as we can using Hand of Gul'dan and Empower Demons.
I'm actually loving demo more than ever, however, I do agree it needs a lot of work + it feels a bit... Off?

I've been wanting a pet army forever in Warcraft. We finally have it. Albeit in its first stage.
Demo is a horrid imitation of BM hunter, with the only major differences being that for BM everything is instant cast, and they have a major dps cooldown that directly buffs their stats, and doesn't just summon another pet(s). (Oh wait, they have that as a secondary cooldown in stampede).

Imo Demonology needs a LOT of lot of work.
I'm really surprised you find affliction enjoyable at the moment.

I've tried ret, spriest, ww, affliction, and destruction on beta and affliction would be dead last with destruction a close second. I actually cannot even choose my lock in the character selection screen any more because the specs disgust me.

Demo, on paper, seems the most fun. Summon demons and empower them.

I guess they missed on the idea but conceptually it sounds like it could be a hit.
As much as I love demonology, it does need a lot of improvement.
The demonic empowerment mechanic is just plain annoying.
The spec as a whole feels like it has way to much casting time.

And Death knights can raise 2 minions, but Demonology warlocks, the spec thats based around "summoning and controlling demons", can't summon and control 2 demons at once?

And on top of that the "army" of demons we summon just dissapears after a short period of time because they're out past curfew?
Let them stay out, summoned at our side for fel's sake. Just put a cap on how many we can control at once. Limit us to 2 Stalkers and maybe 8-10 imps.

I came to accept the fact that we got gutted so that Demon Hunters could feel like special snowflakes, but this is just plain ridiculous.
This is what I am feeling, too.

Dreadlord/Pit Lord would be fantastic talents, tbh.

The spec as a whole just need to be totally reworked. It's awkward and underwhelming atm.
Your all trolling right? We are in a fabulous place right now.
The design of demo and destruction right now seems to be "Add 2 of the following to every spell: cooldown, cast time, soul shard cost." For anything but long raid fights, it's really awkward. If a bunch of weak minions come at you, you have no rain of fire or hellfire to swat them away. Instead, you have to individually cast shadowbolt or incinerate on each target. Demonwrath is the closest to usable, but as soon as your pet kills its target, it'll run full speed back to you.

Feels like the class has a big hole in it.
08/03/2016 04:16 PMPosted by Baalsamael
So I've been a demo lock since I started playing end of wrath. Just has always been my schtick. Almost never use it for PVP, where I'm always Aff or Destro.

Demo just isn't fun anymore. With Aff or even Destro atm, I still feel like I'm doing ~damage~ you know? Aff's current rotation, the upkeep of dots, the decent RNG aspect, it's fun. I'm personally happy with Aff for the most part. Destro's rotation was gutted as we all saw coming, and it hits for less, but there's still a modicum of choice and dynamics in terms of play style. Not to mention in terms of aesthetics (sue me), Destro is still on top of the other two.

Demo however. Hand of Gul'dan summoning exclusively Imps is god-boring. Dreadstalkers with a cast time, on cool down, AND casting soul shards with no bang to their buck? Terrible. Doom is lackluster. An incredibly slow dot that doesn't do enough damage fast enough to really impress anyone.

And then quality of life. What with Doom's weak duration that requires obnoxious upkeep, and the gimmicky feel of our core rotation, and the fact EVERYTHING costs soul shards except shadowbolt/demonbolt and doom? Demonwrath I've ignored because it's useless except for low level mobs and grinding rep. My AOE is absolute trash now. And then with Green Fire implementation! I get it, the Head Warlock Dev was booted from the team, maybe you're feeling bitter, I know the feeling, but why was green HoG never implemented? Green demonwrath never made? Green demonbolt never made? Why was Malefic Grasp not made the default filter of Drain Life, make the Aff version of Drain Life Malefic Grasp that can be updated to Drain Soul, or vice versa? Why is Rain of Fire gimped and costing three soul shards? What is the point of any of this? Don't you see the person you forced to leave was actually taking care of us warlocks? That we were happy and excited? That we were no longer bitter about Blizzard ignoring and/or mistreating us for years?

Consider the Dark Apotheosis fiasco. Consider the time you took Soul Harvest and then IN THE SAME PATCH gave the mechanic/graphic to mages. Consider the loss of simply basic vanity like the Verdant Spheres, where other classes get a spellbook toy, we got NOTHING.

Why is it, that in the expansion that is most centered on DEMONS whose main character is the quintessential WARLOCK were demonology warlocks thrown under the bus? Did you intentionally gimp us so that our vaguely increased numbers would abandon ship for the sake of Demon Hunter?

Like I get with a full artifact there will be a lot more dynamics involved in demonology, like the stacking buff per dead imp, etc, but truly? All the fun, flavor, and life in demonology has been ripped from its form.

Far from pruning, Blizzard chopped down the whole tree and planted a weed in its place.


I just saw this and it just crush me... but I guess this is the answer to what happen to Demolocks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GfNlZGqno

I just don't get this... FINE you took Meta... that's fine... it belongs to the DH, but what about the other stuff? Just BECAUSE you DON'T want me to play my fav spec, that OH, THAT'S RIGHT, I'M PAYING YOU to play!

Why not make something similar improve not just gut the classes and spreed the their skills like spilled milk on grain...

Example:
Taking Meta out...? ok, lets give them a talent or power/Mecanic to Fuse with the chosen demon and cool Character Unique Model to go with the fusion depending on which Demon you fuse with. SO players don't feel we took it to put it on another class...
Demonic Empowerment? How about make it a 30 min or 1hr buff, oh and so players are not annoyed lets make the demons transform into their more powerful forms (Previous talent) when they have demonic empowerment on them...
Lets give them fel Dogs and Lots of Imps... Lets give them a talent to make the dog permanent with the Fel guard out. when the dogs dies or demons are hit or banish they turn into 2-4 imps... if the warlock is hit give them a talent that makes imps or Dogs come out of the shadows to drag to the twisting nether and if it dies it gives you soul shards...
Banish and Demonic Enslavement lets let the warlocks be able to keep the demons enslave... with banishment to through at an enemy when need it

I'm not suggesting this as official, the point of this ideas is to make players SEE an improvement...like their gaining not taking stuff away... Im sure you can do better Blizz. This crazy suggestions that just pop out in rage at how poorly came...out after commanding powerful demons and having the power to even empower your self you just gave us imps with dogs...taking away our stronger demons... I feel downgraded... I can see someone in Blizz enjoying this and laughing in their high sit there taking my sub money...saying: "But we gave you Imps riding on your dog". (feeling untouchable and job secure)

And still I fail to see the joke or improvement or uniqueness...

PS: (Sorry I just needed to get this out of me...when I SAW that vid it just made me so mad I wanted to make a lawsuit...then I realize how powerless I am and that I got still 2 months of playing that had gone into pay and and felt so frustrated and powerless: how can you touch or even move a company this big that literally says to your face F*** you we do what we want...its so hopeless I don't even want to play Legion anymore... but I promise a friend I would...I feel so trap)
08/04/2016 11:48 AMPosted by Druidnature
I'm actually loving demo more than ever, however, I do agree it needs a lot of work + it feels a bit... Off?

I've been wanting a pet army forever in Warcraft. We finally have it. Albeit in its first stage.

Hunter's got stampede in 5.0 ^_^
08/04/2016 12:11 PMPosted by Anuî
Demo is a horrid imitation of BM hunter, with the only major differences being that for BM everything is instant cast, and they have a major dps cooldown that directly buffs their stats, and doesn't just summon another pet(s). (Oh wait, they have that as a secondary cooldown in stampede).

Imo Demonology needs a LOT of lot of work.


I agree Demonology needs a lot of work. I like the direction, but it has rough spots that needs patched up.

..I do not agree that it's a horrid imitation of Beast Master. I would argue Beast Master is a horrid imitation of us.

Sure, they get instant casts. They're hunters and they get all the nice things (except transmog teehee). But the Beast Master spec is the most boring thing I have ever played. I honestly think it is worse than WoD Marksmanship in terms of "Press one button and win game" playstyle.

"Direbeast. Bestial wrath. Dire beast. Bestialwrath. Kill command. Dire beast. Bestial wrath."

Compare this to Demonology, which actually has more variety in what it does and is more involved.

Doom. Demonbolt/Shadowbolt, Dreadstalkers+DE- Shadowy Inspiration. Demonbolt. Felguard and Doomguard with Soul Harvest then DE. Demonbolt Demon bolt Demonbolt Hand of Imps +DE. Demonbolt Doggies. Refresh doom.

If you think that pressing three buttons to do top dps is what makes a class 'good', then fine. BM is amazing by that scale. From my perspective, Demonology is way more interesting and engaging.
08/04/2016 06:53 PMPosted by Negushah
08/03/2016 04:16 PMPosted by Baalsamael
So I've been a demo lock since I started playing end of wrath. Just has always been my schtick. Almost never use it for PVP, where I'm always Aff or Destro.

Demo just isn't fun anymore. With Aff or even Destro atm, I still feel like I'm doing ~damage~ you know? Aff's current rotation, the upkeep of dots, the decent RNG aspect, it's fun. I'm personally happy with Aff for the most part. Destro's rotation was gutted as we all saw coming, and it hits for less, but there's still a modicum of choice and dynamics in terms of play style. Not to mention in terms of aesthetics (sue me), Destro is still on top of the other two.

Demo however. Hand of Gul'dan summoning exclusively Imps is god-boring. Dreadstalkers with a cast time, on cool down, AND casting soul shards with no bang to their buck? Terrible. Doom is lackluster. An incredibly slow dot that doesn't do enough damage fast enough to really impress anyone.

And then quality of life. What with Doom's weak duration that requires obnoxious upkeep, and the gimmicky feel of our core rotation, and the fact EVERYTHING costs soul shards except shadowbolt/demonbolt and doom? Demonwrath I've ignored because it's useless except for low level mobs and grinding rep. My AOE is absolute trash now. And then with Green Fire implementation! I get it, the Head Warlock Dev was booted from the team, maybe you're feeling bitter, I know the feeling, but why was green HoG never implemented? Green demonwrath never made? Green demonbolt never made? Why was Malefic Grasp not made the default filter of Drain Life, make the Aff version of Drain Life Malefic Grasp that can be updated to Drain Soul, or vice versa? Why is Rain of Fire gimped and costing three soul shards? What is the point of any of this? Don't you see the person you forced to leave was actually taking care of us warlocks? That we were happy and excited? That we were no longer bitter about Blizzard ignoring and/or mistreating us for years?

Consider the Dark Apotheosis fiasco. Consider the time you took Soul Harvest and then IN THE SAME PATCH gave the mechanic/graphic to mages. Consider the loss of simply basic vanity like the Verdant Spheres, where other classes get a spellbook toy, we got NOTHING.

Why is it, that in the expansion that is most centered on DEMONS whose main character is the quintessential WARLOCK were demonology warlocks thrown under the bus? Did you intentionally gimp us so that our vaguely increased numbers would abandon ship for the sake of Demon Hunter?

Like I get with a full artifact there will be a lot more dynamics involved in demonology, like the stacking buff per dead imp, etc, but truly? All the fun, flavor, and life in demonology has been ripped from its form.

Far from pruning, Blizzard chopped down the whole tree and planted a weed in its place.


I just saw this and it just crush me... but I guess this is the answer to what happen to Demolocks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GfNlZGqno

I just don't get this... FINE you took Meta... that's fine... it belongs to the DH, but what about the other stuff? Just BECAUSE you DON'T want me to play my fav spec, that OH, THAT'S RIGHT, I'M PAYING YOU to play!

Why not make something similar improve not just gut the classes and spreed the their skills like spilled milk on grain...

Example:
Taking Meta out...? ok, lets give them a talent or power/Mecanic to Fuse with the chosen demon and cool Character Unique Model to go with the fusion depending on which Demon you fuse with. SO players don't feel we took it to put it on another class...
Demonic Empowerment? How about make it a 30 min or 1hr buff, oh and so players are not annoyed lets make the demons transform into their more powerful forms (Previous talent) when they have demonic empowerment on them...
Lets give them fel Dogs and Lots of Imps... Lets give them a talent to make the dog permanent with the Fel guard out. when the dogs dies or demons are hit or banish they turn into 2-4 imps... if the warlock is hit give them a talent that makes imps or Dogs come out of the shadows to drag to the twisting nether and if it dies it gives you soul shards...
Banish and Demonic Enslavement lets let the warlocks be able to keep the demons enslave... with banishment to through at an enemy when need it

I'm not suggesting this as official, the point of this ideas is to make players SEE an improvement...like their gaining not taking stuff away... Im sure you can do better Blizz. This crazy suggestions that just pop out in rage at how poorly came...out after commanding powerful demons and having the power to even empower your self you just gave us imps with dogs...taking away our stronger demons... I feel downgraded... I can see someone in Blizz enjoying this and laughing in their high sit there taking my sub money...saying: "But we gave you Imps riding on your dog". (feeling untouchable and job secure)

And still I fail to see the joke or improvement or uniqueness...

PS: (Sorry I just needed to get this out of me...when I SAW that vid it just made me so mad I wanted to make a lawsuit...then I realize how powerless I am and that I got still 2 months of playing that had gone into pay and and felt so frustrated and powerless: how can you touch or even move a company this big that literally says to your face F*** you we do what we want...its so hopeless I don't even want to play Legion anymore... but I promise a friend I would...I feel so trap)


Umm, you are aware that they made that comment over a year ago right? The video is also edited to be one of those stupid "thug life" memes and doesn't include the rest of their comment.

Seriously if that is all it takes to get you to think lawsuit then I suggest you play less video games and spend more time growing up. That is pathetic.
Idk what you guys are talking about I love the new demo spec and I am merking people with it, doubling damage in bgs, just learn a good rotation, proof >>> https://postimg.org/image/wjwa46md3/
08/04/2016 05:23 PMPosted by Goldyloc
Your all trolling right? We are in a fabulous place right now.


Please go play the beta at 110.

08/04/2016 07:28 PMPosted by Ilidremae
08/04/2016 12:11 PMPosted by Anuî
Demo is a horrid imitation of BM hunter, with the only major differences being that for BM everything is instant cast, and they have a major dps cooldown that directly buffs their stats, and doesn't just summon another pet(s). (Oh wait, they have that as a secondary cooldown in stampede).

Imo Demonology needs a LOT of lot of work.


I agree Demonology needs a lot of work. I like the direction, but it has rough spots that needs patched up.

..I do not agree that it's a horrid imitation of Beast Master. I would argue Beast Master is a horrid imitation of us.

Sure, they get instant casts. They're hunters and they get all the nice things (except transmog teehee). But the Beast Master spec is the most boring thing I have ever played. I honestly think it is worse than WoD Marksmanship in terms of "Press one button and win game" playstyle.

"Direbeast. Bestial wrath. Dire beast. Bestialwrath. Kill command. Dire beast. Bestial wrath."

Compare this to Demonology, which actually has more variety in what it does and is more involved.

Doom. Demonbolt/Shadowbolt, Dreadstalkers+DE- Shadowy Inspiration. Demonbolt. Felguard and Doomguard with Soul Harvest then DE. Demonbolt Demon bolt Demonbolt Hand of Imps +DE. Demonbolt Doggies. Refresh doom.

If you think that pressing three buttons to do top dps is what makes a class 'good', then fine. BM is amazing by that scale. From my perspective, Demonology is way more interesting and engaging.


Perhaps you're right that BM was a mock-Demonology warlock, however when it breaks down to functionality/rotation, pressing DE after EVERY summon is cancerous.

Also BM hunters are not limited to 16s of ramp up time, inability to swap targets on a dime, rendered immobile "turrets", and are definitely not limited to shoddy burst that costs their primary resource to use and 30s to ramp up to.
Any ideas what should be done?
08/04/2016 11:20 PMPosted by Baalsamael
Any ideas what should be done?


Bring back Xelnath?
08/04/2016 09:45 PMPosted by Anuî
Also BM hunters are not limited to 16s of ramp up time, inability to swap targets on a dime, rendered immobile "turrets", and are definitely not limited to shoddy burst that costs their primary resource to use and 30s to ramp up to.


This is the biggest problem I've noticed on my lock. You want me to switch to a priority add that has to die fast? Ok - gimme a couple globals to get a dozen imps out (class trinket) and they'll finish him in 10 or so seconds. Demo has no swappable burst arguably, outside of Implosion, Shadowflame, and Artifact ability. It's not just a PvP problem - it's a PvE problem.

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