Maximum camera distance - Legion 7.0.3 #10

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08/04/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Gigabear
08/04/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ornyx
Seeing as this is 10 threads in... I'm going to set the cap a bit higher this time. Thanks for all your feedback on the topic so far, everyone!
Glad I'm home right now on my break lol. Thank you very much for the extension and letting us know this thread is being monitored.


Nothing's being monitored. It's all smoke and mirrors. Look at the CRZ thread, Blue posted in and extended that thread on July 28th, and we're still seeing the exact same sharding and phasing issues we were on day one of 7.0 without another comment from Blue.

It's going to be an absolute debacle next week when the invasions start in full and these issues aren't fixed. Throw in a few more DDOS attacks and people are going to be demanding refunds en masse.
08/04/2016 03:38 PMPosted by Chazka

Nothing's being monitored.


"monitored" has many different potential applications in this situation. I am hopeful it's the more positive ones though.
please change it back
08/04/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ornyx
Seeing as this is 10 threads in... I'm going to set the cap a bit higher this time. Thanks for all your feedback on the topic so far, everyone!
Cool, so we get a blue letting us know that the threads where we're expressing our displeasure, and in some cases legitimate health concerns/issues, will not cap out as soon. Meanwhile, Blizz continues to give platitudes and excuses for not caring about their players.

I would love to see the minutes from the meeting where this decision about the camera was made. I would love to see who presented the idea, and what they did to convince the rest of the design team that it wasn't a horrendously stupid idea.
08/04/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ornyx
Seeing as this is 10 threads in... I'm going to set the cap a bit higher this time. Thanks for all your feedback on the topic so far, everyone!

Thank you for extending the thread cap. It was becoming tiresome to continue to find the next thread and gather feedback, in a way that very much felt like it was being ignored. Knowing that the concerns brought forth are being read, despite the expectation that they are... well, it soothes the nerves a bit.
08/04/2016 03:14 PMPosted by Cozzene
Letting us keep MaxCam would be the easiest solution for everyone. It's there if you want it, you can choose not to use it if you don't want to, and this would be absolutely no work whatsoever on Blizzard's part. The worst they'd need to do is direct people to the addon as opposed to giving out the old cvar code. It's a compromise that makes everyone (who's seriously involved) happy.

Edit; It would, at least for me, help repair the currently fragile trust I have with the employees who suggested and green lit the zoom change in the first place.


Unfortunately, as much as I would like to see MaxCam stick around, the bug that allows the addon to work should be fixed so that the function function as intended.

It would also be prudent, in the same method of fixing that acceleration function, to set the maximum for maxCameraDistance back to 50--which is what I think works out best for everyone.

I don't want to copy and paste my earlier wall of text, but my stance can be summarized as this: While I understand the need to innovate and bring something to the game that might have been lacking, the sacrifices in this area aren't worth anything meaningful to the player base. The achievement of restricting visual information can be accomplished on a per-mechanic basis, if that is the road the design wagon is currently rolling down. There are other tools to make the game more challenging without making it more frustrating, and the maxCameraDistance clamp simply makes the game feel frustrating and even in some cases downright unenjoyable.
08/04/2016 01:59 PMPosted by Darkynhalvos
08/04/2016 01:56 PMPosted by Zularan
...

As long as you don't actually listen to these whiners and ruin the camera again we're good.

These people don't know what they are talking about, it's just Water Striders all over again.


Water striders never involved health issues that prevented anyone from being able to play.
The camera zoom DOES.

#RevertTheNerf


Ah yes, the old "the camera makes me sick" meme
08/04/2016 03:43 PMPosted by Sintestra
08/04/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ornyx
Seeing as this is 10 threads in... I'm going to set the cap a bit higher this time. Thanks for all your feedback on the topic so far, everyone!
Cool, so we get a blue letting us know that the threads where we're expressing our displeasure, and in some cases legitimate health concerns/issues, will not cap out as soon. Meanwhile, Blizz continues to give platitudes and excuses for not caring about their players.

I would love to see the minutes from the meeting where this decision about the camera was made. I would love to see who presented the idea, and what they did to convince the rest of the design team that it wasn't a horrendously stupid idea.


It's like all the different devs were given the task of coming up with the most extreme, stupid, and illogical change to the game they could think of. Then they chucked all the ideas in a hat, and pulled one out.

Annnnnndddddd........ "Whichever one gets pulled, we're going with it."

It's like a really bad April Fool's Joke.
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.
08/04/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Teradan
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.
There is a Cam distance slider already in the options. So people already have a choice of a small range they can choose from. We are simply asking for the max distance to be 50 like it has been since 2004. I don't think I played at the full 50 distance the majority of the time, but I can guarantee you I didn't play at 28.5 or closer.

Removing options is almost always a bad idea. Especially options like this.
08/04/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Teradan
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.


You can zoom in... The command doesn't disable your ability to zoom in, neither does the addon. If you don't want to be zoomed out more, you have the option to not zoom out.
08/04/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Teradan
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.


There's multiple reports of a nerf in place for the bug that manipulates the camera to zoom out. One from the addon developer himself, stating Blizz knows about the bug and are getting ready to push it in a hot fix. And secondly from an MVP poster in here saying the bug fix is in place in house and just needs to get pushed to live servers.

That's why we're still discussing this, otherwise I agree, the addon is a more than adequate solution.

If Blizzard were to just outright either tell us the addon will stay, or they're reverting the camera to the old 50 zoom, these threads would die faster than....

But Blizzard is in complete radio silence on not just this issue but a few other big forum topics currently going on, with the exception of the occasional extension of a thread which of course comes with the obligatory blue comment "we're monitoring this, etc, etc."

Like I said above, this whole thing has the appreance of a really bad April Fool's Joke.
08/04/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Teradan
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.


I don't think many are going to agree that hiding the option so that only advanced users can access it is how this change should play out. Everyone can benefit, and getting used to scrolling in and out as you need is how I think people are happiest.

Additionally, while I often use the zoom level beyond the current setting, or the old default setting, there are plenty of times that level of zoom is entirely appropriate. PvP often has me zooming in rather than out, unless in a large battleground and out of combat. All of the time, however, isn't right.

I have to wonder, how much of a competitive advantage does the camera distance offer you, really? The information would still be available to you in other ways. I frequently see nameplates from creatures that aren't even visible to me now because of the nameplate distance change combined with the camera distance change. It's quite ugly to have nameplates crowded at the edges of my camera because they are within 60 yards even though I can't quite see them. I can adjust that distance, why not the other way around?

In either case, what I DO with that information has always been where the fun in a game comes from. In this way, something like the removal of DBM could be rationalized as a positive change for the same reasons--less information available to the player somehow makes a more compelling game. I disagree. Less information is simply frustrating, and takes away the accomplishment behind player action.

The difference between having a caster start casting a deadly spell on you and being able to see it, versus just getting the vague warning that the spell is being cast in your direction from off screen, is stark. In both cases you want to act, in the latter your actions are limited by design that will leave you frustrated at the camera rather than your skill in reacting to the cast. The extra step necessary to bring back parity to where we were before, rapid panning, is a frustrating thing to have in a game like WoW. That is not how it was designed at it's core. If information was supposed to be hidden, you wouldn't auto-acquire targets that attacked you.

So in that vein of reasoning, I think Joeschmoe might appreciate the ability to zoom out to get a better grip on his surroundings, if the terrain and situation allowed for it, to see that caster that the game auto-acquired for him. I think the camera distance limit is as frustrating for him as it is for veteran players, and seeing the default UI slider maxed out when an option exists elsewhere to bump it further.. While it's an introduction to all of the cool nifty things that aren't included in the base UI (especially recently, as you can find with AdvancedInterfaceOptions), I think looking up tools to see how to custom set the game is exactly the opposite of the spirit of the change in the first place.
08/04/2016 03:14 PMPosted by Cozzene
It would, at least for me, help repair the currently fragile trust I have with the employees who suggested and green lit the zoom change in the first place.
You can't blame those folks. They aren't responsible for the deeply flawed decisions regarding the zoom limit.
I've barely touched the game since the 7.0 launch - specifically because of the changes to the max camera zoom & the resulting nausea and headaches it has caused. Having caught up with this thread today, I'm just finding out about the MaxCam addon, but it sounds like it won't be a viable option for much longer. I'm really hoping for a compromise between Blizzard and the community. Why not go back to the max scroll value of 35, why the nerf to 28.5? I've never played fully zoomed out at 50, I found somewhere in the 40-45 range most comfortable. I'll take anything over what we have now.
08/04/2016 04:07 PMPosted by Lorezohaz
08/04/2016 03:14 PMPosted by Cozzene
It would, at least for me, help repair the currently fragile trust I have with the employees who suggested and green lit the zoom change in the first place.
You can't blame those folks. They aren't responsible for the deeply flawed decisions regarding the zoom limit.
The people who suggested they nerf the camera distance are not responsible for the thing they suggested?
08/04/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ornyx
Seeing as this is 10 threads in... I'm going to set the cap a bit higher this time. Thanks for all your feedback on the topic so far, everyone!

Got time with gold because of this. Wasn't going to even try but still not going to spend money until I know I can play. (Please let us keep the addon)
Thank you so much for posting and letting us know someone there is human and is not ignoring us. Being ignored stinks, even more so when you are getting ill and having headaches.
Sent hugs and <3 on Twitter but not sure who sees that. lol Hope they let you know when someone says, "Hey good job! Thanks." and not just the we are upset ones.
08/04/2016 01:59 PMPosted by Darkynhalvos
<span class="truncated">...</span>

As long as you don't actually listen to these whiners and ruin the camera again we're good.

These people don't know what they are talking about, it's just Water Striders all over again.


Water striders never involved health issues that prevented anyone from being able to play.
The camera zoom DOES.

#RevertTheNerf


No it doesn't lmao that's just ridiculous nonsense and the developers know it.

The camera being slightly zoomed in doesn't mean !@#$ for your health, like absolutely no impact. The things that were actually causing the nausea have already been fixed. Anything else is placebo.

08/04/2016 02:00 PMPosted by Ravenskar
08/04/2016 01:56 PMPosted by Zularan
As long as you don't actually listen to these whiners and ruin the camera again we're good.


You felt the camera was ruined for 11.5 years and has just now been fixed?


Yes, for 11,5 years the art team had to struggle to design the world so it looks decent for players who are pretending to play a city builder game with their camera zoom, and they have admitted it multiple times.

Now they can finally focus on making the game look good from a single perspective.
Do not respond to the trolls, just put them on ignore. We will not let them derail this topic.
08/04/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Teradan
As long as they allow the add-on that currently fixes this problem then I don't see the issue. Sure, they could just make the camera distance by default higher; however maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe the average joe player would find it bothersome to be looking at their character as an ant on the screen just to have an edge; this might annoy them. Maybe it's good that you need an add-on for this type of stuff or some command 95% of the playerbase didnt seem to know about. Either way there's a fix for it now so that's the good part.

*facedesk* 95% didn't know about it? Really? Wow guess we need far better public education since so many can't read the trade chat, GM's giving it out, being posted on the forums and you know that thing called Google.
Sorry yes that is a bit snarky just tired of seeing this over and over again when it is so not true. Just because you might not know something doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.
08/04/2016 04:19 PMPosted by Zularan
Yes, for 11,5 years the art team had to struggle to design the world so it looks decent for players who are pretending to play a city builder game with their camera zoom, and they have admitted it multiple times.

Now they can finally focus on making the game look good from a single perspective.


All bosses should get nifty knee pads and pedicures from now on.

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