A refutation of whining: Elemental

Shaman
08/11/2016 04:47 PMPosted by Veeshans
Long time ele here.. this is completely unacceptable!!! Giving us an ability like the wind jump when balance and other specs have instant gap creators is just poor design..


Balance and....? Locks and Shadow lost mobility. Frost/Fire have 1 on a decently high cd, and Arcane is the only exception to the rule.

Even there, GoW has literaly half the cd of Displacer Beast, the same cd that blink, while locks and shadow are basically inmobile.

The rest of your post is basicaly whining. LvB is too RNG to be a nuke. Let it go.
Fire's only got Blink, sure, but they never have to stop moving.
That heavily, heavily favors them, at least in PvP.

Breaking stuns is also really nice riot plz let Ghost Wolf break roots so it's similar or somethin
We excel in having three schools of damaging spells. It's very hard to lock us down with interrupts. Yeah, we have to hard cast to build resources, bu all of our hard casts build Maelstrom over all 3 schools. Three spell schools, now add in jinking? You should never be not able to cast something.

Gust of Wind is a pretty darn good spell. My only complaint with it is that you can get stunned in the middle of the jump. That's lame. Other than that, it's literally on a 15 second cooldown, how much lower could the cooldown possibly be without becoming absurd?

If you don't want Flame Shock to cost you Maelstrom... guess what? Fire and Ice can handle that.
We have Gust, Thunderstorm, Earthgrab and Frost Shock with no cool down allowing 100% up time on an instant cast slow and Ghost Wolf allowing us to always move at a minimum 100%.

We are in the best place in terms of kiting that we've been since we lost cast while moving LB. Possibly even better.
08/11/2016 08:10 PMPosted by Tyranova
Fire's only got Blink, sure, but they never have to stop moving.
That heavily, heavily favors them, at least in PvP.

Breaking stuns is also really nice riot plz let Ghost Wolf break roots so it's similar or somethin


While I agree either GW or GoW need a cc cleanse, Ele has 3/4 schools to choose from, while every other caster has at most 2. Compared to say, mages and locks, that have 1 interruptible school at best.
08/11/2016 08:57 PMPosted by Tailari
We have Gust, Thunderstorm, Earthgrab and Frost Shock with no cool down allowing 100% up time on an instant cast slow and Ghost Wolf allowing us to always move at a minimum 100%.

We are in the best place in terms of kiting that we've been since we lost cast while moving LB. Possibly even better.


Yup, mainly because movecast LB was still interruptable.
actually i think fire mages are best atm in terms of what their mobilty provides.

they can spec into 2 blinks and with artifact each blink heals them for 15% of their HP ( 1/2 that in pvp ) over 6 secs. Not to mention with 6 instant cast fire blast basicaly they have their mobilty up 100% of the time.

Arcane has more mobilty but dosnt offer the healing fire gets.

Locks may not have any mobilty anymore but my god have you tried to kill one ? they are beasts with sooo much sheilding and life steal they DONT NEED mobilty.

Spriest are in a very similar position to us in regards to melee. but they can put out alot more pressure in arenas then us. Plus they have an awesome sheild on a 6sec CD, which -IF- speced can provide a 40% movement speed buff for a short time.

I agree that shammy is in a better sport regarding movement then their past iterations.
But i dont think its enough in legions current state on beta. considering just how easy it is to lock us down and kill us.

08/11/2016 08:57 PMPosted by Tailari
We have Gust, Thunderstorm, Earthgrab and Frost Shock with no cool down allowing 100% up time on an instant cast slow and Ghost Wolf allowing us to always move at a minimum 100%.

We are in the best place in terms of kiting that we've been since we lost cast while moving LB. Possibly even better.


Yeah we have all this but you have to consider just what other classes got given and melee got alot more to counter nearly all of this.
I love my Shaman and I love the new play style and am having lots of fun with it. And though it seems to have a lot of good potential for pvp (and believe me I am no pro or even close to being an expert) I have never in all these years playing felt so damn squishy.
08/11/2016 08:57 PMPosted by Tailari
We have Gust, Thunderstorm, Earthgrab and Frost Shock with no cool down allowing 100% up time on an instant cast slow and Ghost Wolf allowing us to always move at a minimum 100%.

We are in the best place in terms of kiting that we've been since we lost cast while moving LB. Possibly even better.


Except all the melee ignore that except for dk because they all have tons of gap closers as well as slows.

There are bunch of things ele got that they needed and yet they still are at the bottom of the barrel because they are sooooo easy to counter by any of the melee specs.
If you are being trained and killed in RBGs then its most likely an issue with positioning. Elemental arent meant to be front lines men. theyre the mortars lobbing bombs from max distance.

When we talk about shaman mobliity, i feel like we are really dicussing two topics that arent exactly the same.

Topic one is Damage while moving / damage while under pressure.

Topic two is Escape Mechanisms.

Lava surge, empowered frost shocks, fulminations are topic one, and i dont think anyone will deny that while we lost lightning bolt while moving, we can still put out considerable damoog while moving.

Gust of Wind is topic two, and is a better ability for 'mobility' than we've ever had in the history of shamans.
After watching vids of what elemental is capable of burst wise in pvp I'm not exactly sure what the issue is.

I've played elemental currently and its alright, we have forms of escape now which is great. And I'm usually at the top of the charts in damage, if not number one.
other than affliction locks i have a really decent shot at beating anyone in this game again. this spec is in great shape.
I tried pointing out that our mobility and CC is far better than it's ever been - got downvoted to oblivion. Glad to see a little more rational debate in this thread.

I also think it's important to note (from a PvP perspective) that Elemental Shamans have WAY more spell school options than other casters. Between Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Ice Fury, and Elemental blast it's virtually impossible to get interrupted enough to get locked out of your spellbook - you'll always have stuff to cast.

And of course the extension of that is the mindgames that go along with it - if you know you're going to need to heal soon, try to cast something like an Ice Fury that people will want to interrupt - now your nature school is relatively safe to cast. Need to set up your kiting? Try hard casting a Lava Burst or Healing Surge, then when it gets kicked you can cast your Ice Fury without fear.
i guess you forgot about control the lava the pvp talent 150% increase to lava burst damage.i was seeing 325k crits from lava burst on legion beta so lava burst will hit like the days of old.

besides the ele shaman is all about the lightning bolt and chain lightning look at the artifact weapon lava burst fuels more lightning bolt over loads whats what the elemental shaman is a lightning bolt turret.

the whole idea behind elemental is the power of the maelstrom buff from the artifact weapon it gives a chance after your lava burst for your next 3 lightning bolts to give one additional elemental over load each bolt.

when you see that buff pop storm keeper which causes you next 3 lightning bolts to do 200% increases damage.we are supposed to be spaming lightning bolt as much as we can.with lightning rod talent with primary target taking 40% more damage for you lightning bolts and chain lightning bolts lightning bolt can do insane dps.

so with the power of the maelstrom buff pop storm keeper for 200% add 40% from lightning rod thats 240% lightning bolt damage then add control the lava for 150% increased damage you see how you should spec your ele shaman now?

all i can say is stack as much haste as you can then mastery>crit.get lightning bolt to 1 sec if you can.
I just don't like that it is like cata again where it is better to sit and eat vs healing myself >.>. "Oh I just killed some stuff, better heal up!...Oh im oom and not even close to full health"
I would be happy IF Ele got spirit walkers grace back. Everything else I can live with, but fighting a melee and you finally get a little breathing room but then having to stand a cast healing surge is pointless. Charge, deathgrip, or any of the other gap closers and its Gg.

I just want to be able to maintain that distance long enough to spam a few heals to get myself closer to even health wise with who I'm fighting.

I mean melee do twice our damage in a few instant swings but we have 1.5+ second casts and that leaves us always behind the curve.

Either give us spirit walkers grace back or give gust of wind the Mage treatment where we get a % of health everytime we use it.
Or make healing surge instant if you have maelstrom like enhance already has. That might work too cause you would then be sacrificing dos to heal.
every downvote was cast by a really bad player.
Why do I get the feeling that everyone that complains here aout selfhealing isnt doing the mental leap of ''you cant spam HS from 25% hp, keep yourself topped while using the Ele Focus buff to weave HS wit your other spells''.

08/12/2016 08:13 AMPosted by Luzin
i guess you forgot about control the lava the pvp talent 150% increase to lava burst damage.i was seeing 325k crits from lava burst on legion beta so lava burst will hit like the days of old.

besides the ele shaman is all about the lightning bolt and chain lightning look at the artifact weapon lava burst fuels more lightning bolt over loads whats what the elemental shaman is a lightning bolt turret.

the whole idea behind elemental is the power of the maelstrom buff from the artifact weapon it gives a chance after your lava burst for your next 3 lightning bolts to give one additional elemental over load each bolt.

when you see that buff pop storm keeper which causes you next 3 lightning bolts to do 200% increases damage.we are supposed to be spaming lightning bolt as much as we can.with lightning rod talent with primary target taking 40% more damage for you lightning bolts and chain lightning bolts lightning bolt can do insane dps.

so with the power of the maelstrom buff pop storm keeper for 200% add 40% from lightning rod thats 240% lightning bolt damage then add control the lava for 150% increased damage you see how you should spec your ele shaman now?

all i can say is stack as much haste as you can then mastery>crit.get lightning bolt to 1 sec if you can.


No offense, but your post is literal trash and is based around a lot of assupmtions that simply arent true.

For example: Mastery is Ele's worst stat by a longshot, while Crit is Ele's best stat by a lot. Haste is mostly useless for your best pvp talent, Icefury.
In my view, Control of Lava is a PVP talent trap. Yeah, it makes your Lava Bursts hit really hard. Great! But you lost Lava Surge! Now you have to sit and HARD CAST IT EVERY TIME. Have fun getting your Lava Bursts both consistently kicked and still not being your biggest damage spell.

Control of Lava was tempting when it was a 300% damage buff and Echo of Elements gave Lava Burst 3 charges. Not that way anymore so I don't see any reason to even consider it over Fire and Ice or that +50 Maelstrom cap talent.

08/12/2016 09:51 AMPosted by Infernnoz
I would be happy IF Ele got spirit walkers grace back. Everything else I can live with, but fighting a melee and you finally get a little breathing room but then having to stand a cast healing surge is pointless. Charge, deathgrip, or any of the other gap closers and its Gg.


Here's the thing though, we don't need Spiritwalker's Grace. The days of spamming Healing Surge for 10 seconds are gone. It can't be done anymore. You get to cast it 5 times in a row. But if you have to do that you have already made a mistake.

Weave your heals into your DPS. Fling a Lava Burst, then cast a Healing Surge. Then throw a Frost Shock and Ghost Wolf behind a pillar. Healing Surge again. I try not to cast Healing Surge more than 2-3 times in a row if I can avoid it. Casting it too much is going to get you kicked and then you're boned because you can't Ghost Wolf.

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