Q&A Summary

Warlock
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This has always confused me, since i started in Vanilla with lock. The dots were part of being able to be mobile. Mages were the more stationary class, with the benefit of being able to deal out quick massive damage. Warlocks could move around, but had the drawback of having the damage being over time. When did they decide to go this weird "you can't move, deal weak damage slowly, but are more tanky"? Was this something people were really wanting more?


Clearly you only played Affliction back then. Both Demonology and Destruction were plant yourself and cast specs. Affliction was the only one that had the freedom to move and cast, but then it also didn't have high burst damage either. It needed the mobility to survive long enough to see its DoTs work.

Warlocks have always been the tankier caster class. Back then we had higher health pools and curses to weaken our enemies to help us survive, and allow us to life tap as needed. It's our thing. Mages also would plant and cast, but they had the freedom to blink around and freeze targets in place. This would enable them to escape and keep targets away.


Yup. Anyone old enough to remember SL/SL and Sac/Shadowbolt specs?

Oh, and locks have ALWAYS gotten destroyed by melee DPS in PvP. Just the nature of the class.
The "warlocks are tanky turrets, mage are squishy and fast" thing never made sense to me. If we're going for "class fantasy," shouldn't it be the exact opposite? Mages are supposed to be about careful study and concentration, while warlocks are the reckless loons who sacrifice everything maximum power.

I realize it's probably too late to change now, but it's still confusing.

I just wish all those hardcasts we have to do weren't so slow now. Especially destro. Feels like I could go make a sandwich while I wait for my casts to finish.
09/09/2016 12:53 PMPosted by Thorgrogin
Oh, and locks have ALWAYS gotten destroyed by melee DPS in PvP. Just the nature of the class.


Well, not always, i remember before diminishing returns was added, and i could constantly keep a melee feared until dead. Good times. Short, but good times.
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.
09/09/2016 12:58 PMPosted by Chriana
09/09/2016 12:53 PMPosted by Thorgrogin
Oh, and locks have ALWAYS gotten destroyed by melee DPS in PvP. Just the nature of the class.


Well, not always, i remember before diminishing returns was added, and i could constantly keep a melee feared until dead. Good times. Short, but good times.


Yes, but even I admit that was REALLY broken. Also, rogues would just stun lock you so you never got one off.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.
Thank you. I really appreciate you coming here and posting even with all the anger.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


Thank you. Im not going to act like its all fire and brimstone for the class. Ill make due with what I have for demo and hope that 7.1 brings some changes. Please, please, please, please, please do something with demonic empowerment.
The main concern i have is will i be able to raid with the current warlock numbers and as it stands its looking like no. Not only that its looking like we wont get the fixes we need until AFTER raids are out and this upsets me that ive wasted so much time in and under performing class.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


Thank you! This is exactly the kind of post I've been hoping for. I really appreciate the acknowledgment that the class team is actively discussing the other less immediate issues.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.


This is the only thing that i want. It will prevent me from getting kicked from groups.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


It really is uncomfortable to not trust the development team.

You say you will raise our dps to competitive levels but I just don't trust you because of your unprofessional handling of our mechanics throughout beta and your attitude when speaking to the community.

Can you give us the tuning buffs next week as a show of good faith that you actually will take action to fix the class?
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


@Watcher,

Are you please able to sticky the thread I posted not too long ago regarding the suggestions for warlocks to the developers?

I have requested all posters to be respectful as well as a few more issues.

Please pass on this thread to the developers and take a read of it yourself. I think it realistically covers all if not most of the changes affliction needs to see.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


This gives me a lot of good vibes, actually. Knowing that you share our concerns on DPS and that you acknowledge our complaints about things like artifact traits (especially Affliction, please oh please!) are a large boon to how I feel about the class going forward.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


We all thank you for this. I know Q&As are pretty tight on time for all the questions to be addressed, and it may have almost been better not to address warlock concerns than to squish it all into a few minutes of conversation based on the question of "Warlocks?" (Hint, pick better questions, there were many). But thanks for stepping in and addressing the concern of low dps, which while it may not be everyone's #1 concern, I think is probably up high on almost everyone's list. Thanks again.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
Initial efforts have been focused on
. . .
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
gathering data.
How much more is needed?
Thank you for the personal acknowledgement in our forum. Please realize much of the anger is because at the end of the day we truly enjoy this game and are passionate. We wouldn't be here if we weren't
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.


Is there any sort of time-frame on when these changes may happen? Because as it stands, we're needing more than just numerical tuning, which I think on some level we all knew was coming. And previous stances, especially in regards to Demonology, major changes to classes haven't been done in patches between expansions. If this is the sort of thing that's in the line for say 7.2 (would prefer 7.1, but probably not likely lol) that's one thing, but if these are what we're stuck with until 8.0, that's an entirely different thing, and I feel like it'd be helpful to know to make plans for the future as players.

I don't need a specific patch number, and I don't want to trap you in a position of "Watcher said in Patch X we'd get Y done! Let's riot now!" from players, just an acknowledgement that whether or not you're planning on fixing things before the next expansion.
I appreciate the comment and information. To be honest the Warlock community really needs some ears to listen to their concerns right now.

I understand hot fixes can be made, but the main jist is each spec is clunky and nothing feels satisfying. They feel too overly simplified and at worst the people have felt for a while their concerns have not been addressed.

I'll make a post in the forum you recommend after I have slept. I understand you have allot on your plate, but a few drops here and there showing you and your team are listening go a long way.
09/09/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Watcher
One thing that I should have stressed more in discussing warlocks in the Q&A is that we haven't done any class/spec numerical-balance hotfixes yet, for anyone. Initial efforts have been focused on fixing bugs (where possible without waiting for a new patch), and gathering data. The basic concern of "our DPS is low" is one that we can and will address. We just need more data from the live environment, from all 24 DPS specs, in order to inform the exact changes we'll be making.

But warlocks should absolutely be numerically competitive with other damage-dealers, and we'll make sure that's the case.

The Soul Shard change got a lot of attention just because it's something that we can handle via hotfix. Concerns such as artifact trait design, visual issues, and rotational flow could only be tackled via a future patch, and are a topic of discussion among the class team.

Your feedback is being read and discussed, and threads like http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748795049 are excellent. If it sounded like I was saying we were literally unable to find any quality feedback, that certainly wasn't my intent. I understand frustration when it seems like valid concerns are being ignored, but constructive feedback is always more helpful. We both want the same thing here: for you to have fun playing your class.


It would help in the future if you could organize your thoughts on things in this manner. (I.E. Bring notes or just read over the questions that were picked a couple of times to have a general idea of what you want to say) The damage part is nice to hear and would have gone a long way to helping to alleviate more of the anger you're seeing right now. If you had said everything in this post during the Q&A we would be much happier than we are now.

The only major Destro issue that it seems like you missed is RNG isn't fun if everything about your class is RNG. Ok, you like our mastery being a different form of Crit, kinda like Ele Shaman's. It's not fun to deal with RNG resource issues though. Sitting for upwards of 15 seconds waiting on a shard to tick over and spamming Conflag on cooldown doesn't feel fun when you're watching other classes just go ham and press every button they have. Please consider taking the RNG away from that aspect and giving us more control in that aspect. I can deal with some RNG, but when I can't even control how my spec gains resources outside of one spell you push on CD, it feels horrible to play.

There are plenty of other issues though,

- Afflic gold traits being useless without things to kill and were supposed to have been redone when the ghost mechanic was changed towards the end of the beta cycle.
- DE being horrible to use and having it feel as though you're supposed to push it after every single demon summon. (Make it a aura on the player instead?)
- AoE being garbage just overall, even if Melee is supposed to be better at it now. (Make things like Cata baseline so that we can do world content but leave the more AoE focus to Melee in instanced content)
- Sticking Warlocks with "failed" concepts from other classes. (Mages hated Prismatic Crystal...but you gave Afflic Soul Effigy? Ret Paladin's lost inquisition because having to press a maintenance buff is bad but yet Mana Tap and DE are around?)

I know we're coming off as angry but you have to understand that after months of apparently no feedback at all, and you can't argue that the class dev team has done a good job of communicating or relaying that they're taking ANY feedback from Alpha, Beta, or live outside of very specific things, tempers are flaring.

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