It's not Better in Mythic's

Mage
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To all of those that think mages suck, this is an average trash pull with cooldowns (which you SHOULD be using provided the next pull isnt a boss). That being said i am still topping dps on boss fights provided CDs are up. Dont blame the class...we are by far one of the strongest if not THE strongest range dps class.

http://imgur.com/a/l0DEk
The eyeball boss in Vault of Wardens is the prime example of use needing more Icy Floes charges for PvE if Blizzard intends for raid content to require that much movement.

Outside of that boss nearly all others have enough 'stand still' phases for us to DPS.
09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
09/16/2016 09:52 PMPosted by Mavael
Anecdotes are not evidence


Yes, yes they are.

If your claim is "Fire mage is bad" and ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS PLANET can provide even anecdotal evidence that your claim, an absolute claim, is false, then your claim is false.

This is the very first concept you learn in deductive reasoning.

If you need proof because someone saying "actually Fire isn't !@#$ and I don't have any trouble doing good DPS" isn't good enough, you can go watch streams. Nagura was just streaming earlier with 2 fire mages who had no problems doing DPS.

https://www.twitch.tv/naguura/v/89649774?t=4h17m


You seem to be missing the point where "Anecdotes are not evidences, because we have no proof". What you linked is not an anecdote IT'S AN EVIDENCE. You ******* *****.
idk what u guys r even on about anymore
09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
can provide even anecdotal evidence
The key word there is evidence. This is why sites like WoL or WCL exist. Coming in and saying "I deal 500k dps everyone else sucks" doesn't help, nor is there any actual evidence to support it. An anecdote ("a story or tale often regarded as unreliable") does not provide evidence. If you are capable of pulling that kind of damage, good for you. Please post your logs and give tips on how others can improve to also deal that damage. "Git gud" isn't helpful.

09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
you can go watch streams
I can also contract AIDS and move to the middle east, but I won't.

09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
If you need proof because someone saying "actually Fire isn't !@#$
It's not "proof" that we're after. What we're (or I am at least) asking is that these supposed "pro" Mages (none of whom have ever posted on these forums until a month ago) provide tools for those with low dps to improve. If you're THAT good at Mage, you can surely teach people not to be terrible.

09/17/2016 04:06 AMPosted by Aletheia
I think we can all agree here that OP is a f@ggot, and that he's one ugly bastard.
Really? You've actually sunk to the level of a 5 year and resorted to name calling or belittling someone's sexuality? I think you've rolled the wrong class here, because you certainly lack any intellect.

Honestly, with all the toxicity, whinging and abuse on the Mage forums at the moment I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of it. Guess now would be as good a time as any to take a break and wait a couple of months until it's back to the way it was. By then Frost might be less suck too, and I might actually play this character once I transfer realm.
http://imgur.com/a/l0DEk

Need i say more? CLEARLY there is nothing wrong with the class at all.
http://imgur.com/a/l0DEk

Need i say more? CLEARLY there is nothing wrong with Fire Mage [u][/u]at all.


Fire is fine, Frost or Arcane is another story
https://puu.sh/rbLoH/d88944687e.png

No adds, idk, p good short burst. Also missing like 8k+ dps from a neck enchant that doesn't show up in any meters/logs. !@#$ty food/WoD flask and no potion.
The key word there is evidence. This is why sites like WoL or WCL exist. Coming in and saying "I deal 500k dps everyone else sucks" doesn't help, nor is there any actual evidence to support it. An anecdote ("a story or tale often regarded as unreliable") does not provide evidence. If you are capable of pulling that kind of damage, good for you. Please post your logs and give tips on how others can improve to also deal that damage. "Git gud" isn't helpful.


For every one thread I posted in giving advise, hell even the GUIDE I posted on this forum there have been 5-6 people whining and crying about fire being "bad" despite the fact many people have time and time again said how the spec plays, where the spec excels, and tips for squeezing out damage.

There has not been a SINGLE person in this thread (post history is a thing), that is showing screenshots of them doing top damage or extremely high burst, that has NOT posted at least 1-2 bits of advice in other threads.

But no please, by all means keep sitting in your echo chamber and thinking the pro's are just here shunning everyone and stroking our own egos. Most of you would rather ask the same questions over and over again like if Rune of Power is mandatory, and when we say "if you want to do great damage yes", and then proceed to not take the talent and complain about poor damage.

09/17/2016 08:14 AMPosted by Tuckletuts
Honestly, with all the toxicity, whinging and abuse on the Mage forums at the moment I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of it.


As much as I hate to say this, because if you look at my post history I believe I've gone above and beyond to try to be helpful on these forums. Please, leave. Come back when you want to look at the threads, read and listen. It's toxic because of people like you, not us "elitists".

The fact that most of us are posting screenshots showing the spec is fine, and even posting LOGS showing exactly what we're doing and still being belittled is beyond me. There is nothing any of us can or will do that will make a single one of you happy.
09/17/2016 08:14 AMPosted by Tuckletuts

09/17/2016 04:06 AMPosted by Aletheia
I think we can all agree here that OP is a f@ggot, and that he's one ugly bastard.
Really? You've actually sunk to the level of a 5 year and resorted to name calling or belittling someone's sexuality? I think you've rolled the wrong class here, because you certainly lack any intellect.


Honestly, with all the toxicity, whinging and abuse on the Mage forums at the moment I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of it. Guess now would be as good a time as any to take a break and wait a couple of months until it's back to the way it was. By then Frost might be less suck too, and I might actually play this character once I transfer realm.[/quote]

Do you know why? Because there's NO reasoning with these people whatsoever. Just look at the whole bucket list of frontpage threads about how mages are bad, all the whining and crying that somehow get page after page of replies as compared to other threads that ask for advice and help that only get a few replies at best.

Like I said, these people (I suspect them to be trolling, especially the ones that complain about fire) can't be reasoned with. Just look at the previous replies. The OP ignores all advice and just keeps claiming that Fire sucks, etc.

I could take the time to write something constructive, like how they should only use gear with crit, use Combustion more, enchant their rings with crit, Rune of Power, etc, but clearly such advice falls on deaf ears. Truthfully, there's really nothing left for such people but mockery.

And yes, but calling him out on those facts (I mean, his mog is really f-ing ugly), I am indeed stooping to his level, but so what? The forums have degenerated to all this crying and moaning, and clearly we all want it in some twisted way considering how we keep lavishing these bads and trolls with attention.

I tried to ignore such threads, hoping the rational folk (like you) would follow in stead, but clearly that's impossible, so I'd now rather play a fiddle while the city burns, yeah?
The key word there is evidence. This is why sites like WoL or WCL exist. Coming in and saying "I deal 500k dps everyone else sucks" doesn't help, nor is there any actual evidence to support it.


There's plenty of evidence of it. I've already posted screenshots of 250k+ sustain on dummies and links to videos where people are doing 500k on 3 targets and ending bosses over 400k no problem.

This is not why WCL exists. WCL exists to optimize and identify performance issues in play. It doesn't exist to say "this is possible". Anecdotes are sufficient for this, and we often get videos to corroborate the anecdotes. It's not my problem that you're uninterested in the evidence.

Please post your logs and give tips on how others can improve to also deal that damage. "Git gud" isn't helpful.


It is because that's the answer. All the data is available. We don't have secret information, and there's no conspiracy to keep noobs being noobs. You have my armory, and you have videos of people doing the good numbers.

If I want to know if a trinket is good, I equip it and go hit a dummy. A lot of people around here think that every question they ask should be answered by a sim. A sim has a lot of encoded assumptions:

1. Everything is perfectly implemented. This is never the case.
2. The rotation is even good. This is not the case given every person doing sims has their own profile.
3. The rotation can adapt to situations and give you useful information to your questions. They can't because Simulationcraft is not a sufficiently complex tool for this kind of analysis.

Sims are good at answering very very very specific questions. WCL is good at allowing someone to look at your performance and figure out why your DPS is bad. If you want to improve, you go kill bosses or hit dummies and log it, then post the logs. If I post my logs, you'll just say "my Pyroblast hits as hard as yours but you do 50% more DPS, how?" The answer is: I have no idea how you're !@#$ing up the rotation, so you need to explain what you're doing and then someone will tell you how it's wrong.

From the perspective of "tell us how to do good DPS" the answer is simple: we already have. The actual correct answer is "git good" as in: read the available information and use your brain, then practice. That's what we did. If you want to do good DPS, put a little effort into it. Otherwise, if you just have no idea why your DPS is bad, put up logs and ask why.
09/17/2016 12:43 PMPosted by Plastics
The key word there is evidence. This is why sites like WoL or WCL exist. Coming in and saying "I deal 500k dps everyone else sucks" doesn't help, nor is there any actual evidence to support it.


There's plenty of evidence of it. I've already posted screenshots of 250k+ sustain on dummies and links to videos where people are doing 500k on 3 targets and ending bosses over 400k no problem.

This is not why WCL exists. WCL exists to optimize and identify performance issues in play. It doesn't exist to say "this is possible". Anecdotes are sufficient for this, and we often get videos to corroborate the anecdotes. It's not my problem that you're uninterested in the evidence.

Please post your logs and give tips on how others can improve to also deal that damage. "Git gud" isn't helpful.


It is because that's the answer. All the data is available. We don't have secret information, and there's no conspiracy to keep noobs being noobs. You have my armory, and you have videos of people doing the good numbers.

If I want to know if a trinket is good, I equip it and go hit a dummy. A lot of people around here think that every question they ask should be answered by a sim. A sim has a lot of encoded assumptions:

1. Everything is perfectly implemented. This is never the case.
2. The rotation is even good. This is not the case given every person doing sims has their own profile.
3. The rotation can adapt to situations and give you useful information to your questions. They can't because Simulationcraft is not a sufficiently complex tool for this kind of analysis.

Sims are good at answering very very very specific questions. WCL is good at allowing someone to look at your performance and figure out why your DPS is bad. If you want to improve, you go kill bosses or hit dummies and log it, then post the logs. If I post my logs, you'll just say "my Pyroblast hits as hard as yours but you do 50% more DPS, how?" The answer is: I have no idea how you're !@#$ing up the rotation, so you need to explain what you're doing and then someone will tell you how it's wrong.

From the perspective of "tell us how to do good DPS" the answer is simple: we already have. The actual correct answer is "git good" as in: read the available information and use your brain, then practice. That's what we did. If you want to do good DPS, put a little effort into it. Otherwise, if you just have no idea why your DPS is bad, put up logs and ask why.


Time to pack it up boys, thread is over.

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2553
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2611

Those two are just for fire. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. OPEN YOUR MINDS. WAKE UP TO REALITY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWbIoIR04c

You can even watch my Mythic group fail achievements: https://www.twitch.tv/sephurik/v/89769983
09/17/2016 08:14 AMPosted by Tuckletuts
09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
can provide even anecdotal evidence
The key word there is evidence. This is why sites like WoL or WCL exist. Coming in and saying "I deal 500k dps everyone else sucks" doesn't help, nor is there any actual evidence to support it. An anecdote ("a story or tale often regarded as unreliable") does not provide evidence. If you are capable of pulling that kind of damage, good for you. Please post your logs and give tips on how others can improve to also deal that damage. "Git gud" isn't helpful.

09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
you can go watch streams
I can also contract AIDS and move to the middle east, but I won't.

09/16/2016 10:12 PMPosted by Plastics
If you need proof because someone saying "actually Fire isn't !@#$
It's not "proof" that we're after. What we're (or I am at least) asking is that these supposed "pro" Mages (none of whom have ever posted on these forums until a month ago) provide tools for those with low dps to improve. If you're THAT good at Mage, you can surely teach people not to be terrible.

09/17/2016 04:06 AMPosted by Aletheia
I think we can all agree here that OP is a f@ggot, and that he's one ugly bastard.
Really? You've actually sunk to the level of a 5 year and resorted to name calling or belittling someone's sexuality? I think you've rolled the wrong class here, because you certainly lack any intellect.

Honestly, with all the toxicity, whinging and abuse on the Mage forums at the moment I'm actually embarrassed to be a part of it. Guess now would be as good a time as any to take a break and wait a couple of months until it's back to the way it was. By then Frost might be less suck too, and I might actually play this character once I transfer realm.


I got downvoted because I pointed out to someone who couldn't comprehend that "anecdotes are not evidences", but yeap. That's exactly it lol.
09/17/2016 12:43 PMPosted by Plastics
...

There's plenty of evidence of it. I've already posted screenshots of 250k+ sustain on dummies and links to videos where people are doing 500k on 3 targets and ending bosses over 400k no problem.

This is not why WCL exists. WCL exists to optimize and identify performance issues in play. It doesn't exist to say "this is possible". Anecdotes are sufficient for this, and we often get videos to corroborate the anecdotes. It's not my problem that you're uninterested in the evidence.

...

It is because that's the answer. All the data is available. We don't have secret information, and there's no conspiracy to keep noobs being noobs. You have my armory, and you have videos of people doing the good numbers.

If I want to know if a trinket is good, I equip it and go hit a dummy. A lot of people around here think that every question they ask should be answered by a sim. A sim has a lot of encoded assumptions:

1. Everything is perfectly implemented. This is never the case.
2. The rotation is even good. This is not the case given every person doing sims has their own profile.
3. The rotation can adapt to situations and give you useful information to your questions. They can't because Simulationcraft is not a sufficiently complex tool for this kind of analysis.

Sims are good at answering very very very specific questions. WCL is good at allowing someone to look at your performance and figure out why your DPS is bad. If you want to improve, you go kill bosses or hit dummies and log it, then post the logs. If I post my logs, you'll just say "my Pyroblast hits as hard as yours but you do 50% more DPS, how?" The answer is: I have no idea how you're !@#$ing up the rotation, so you need to explain what you're doing and then someone will tell you how it's wrong.

From the perspective of "tell us how to do good DPS" the answer is simple: we already have. The actual correct answer is "git good" as in: read the available information and use your brain, then practice. That's what we did. If you want to do good DPS, put a little effort into it. Otherwise, if you just have no idea why your DPS is bad, put up logs and ask why.


Time to pack it up boys, thread is over.

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2553
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2611

Those two are just for fire. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. OPEN YOUR MINDS. WAKE UP TO REALITY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWbIoIR04c

You can even watch my Mythic group fail achievements: https://www.twitch.tv/sephurik/v/89769983


wow dont give away the secrets now my raid spot is as good as gone...
Comfortably pulling 300k on ST fights, sometimes as high as 350k
...

Time to pack it up boys, thread is over.

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2553
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2611

Those two are just for fire. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. OPEN YOUR MINDS. WAKE UP TO REALITY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWbIoIR04c

You can even watch my Mythic group fail achievements: https://www.twitch.tv/sephurik/v/89769983


wow dont give away the secrets now my raid spot is as good as gone...


Don't worry they still have to actually click the links and be able to read, your spot is fine.
Step 1:Remember you have cooldowns.
Step 2:Use those cooldowns.
Step 3:Profit
I think there is enough evidence and proof shown at this point to put the "mages suck" crap to rest already. Mages don't suck. YOU do. If you're failing to get competitive dps out of the class then it is 100% a problem with you. You're either geared badly, using bad talents, or just flat out doing your rotations wrong. Trying to lay all the blame on the class/blizzard is nothing but ignorance and hurt ego.

Sometimes it just takes eating a big piece of humble pie and accepting that you're doing it wrong. That is the only way you can rise above it and improve. Looking for someone to blame for your poor performance is how you stay mediocre.

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