Let's clear some things up: Mythic

General Discussion
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From what I've seen, it seems a lot of people are stuck thinking that Blizzard is locking things behind the "hardcore only" Mythic difficulty, when this is simply not true

Let's take a step back to Pandaria and earlier: we had 2 dungeon difficulties, Normal and Heroic, with Pandaria having Challenge mode which was sorta its own separate thing

Translating the difficulties to colors, let's say Normal is Green and Heroic is Yellow

Step forward to Warlords, and the introduction of Mythic, which we'll now say is Red

So in difficulty, we have Green, Yellow, and Red, in that order. Green is the introductory stage, Yellow is the interim, and the end for most casual players, while Red is reserved for the hardcore players looking for a true challenge

Now we have Legion, where things are shaken up a bit. Blizzard is introducing a new difficulty, Mythic+. What color will Mythic+ be? Red

They're pulling back previous difficulties. Mythic is now Yellow, putting it on a level equivalent to previous expansions' Heroics, while the Heroics now are Green. Legion Normals are a new color, Blue, meant to be an introductory difficulty to help you learn you class and level with.

So now you have Blue Normal (Introductory), Green Heroic (Study), Yellow Mythic (Quiz), and Red Mythic+ (Exam)

tl;dr: If you were doing Heroics in past expansions before, you can do Mythics in this expansion. Stop crying foul at Blizzard for locking dungeons behind a difficulty you are falsely perceiving as the "hardcore" level
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion
09/17/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Phildunphy
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion


To that I have to ask: what did these people do back in Wrath and before, when LFG wasn't a thing AT ALL?

I can understand the argument for something like LFR, which can be a bag of dicks trying to get that many people together for a raid, but not for finding a dungeon, especially with EVERYONE running them right now. Heck, it's pretty much the same thing as queuing for a normal or heroic: pick the dungeon you want, find a group with a spot for you, and click apply. The only difference is it's another player that invites you to the party, not a computer
09/17/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
Heck, it's pretty much the same thing as queuing for a normal or heroic: pick the dungeon you want, find a group with a spot for you, and click apply. The only difference is it's another player that invites you to the party, not a computer


If it's essentially the same, it shouldn't be a problem to put it in LFD.
09/17/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
09/17/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Phildunphy
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion


To that I have to ask: what did these people do back in Wrath and before, when LFG wasn't a thing AT ALL?


They didn't play, though they'll never openly admit that to be the case.
09/17/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Phildunphy
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion


Not only that. The premade finder is little more than community gating ala gear score back in wrath. Now I know the "make your own group" cop-out out is coming. But it still stands that most groups are asking WELL above ilvl.
09/17/2016 03:46 PMPosted by Lughnasadh
09/17/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
Heck, it's pretty much the same thing as queuing for a normal or heroic: pick the dungeon you want, find a group with a spot for you, and click apply. The only difference is it's another player that invites you to the party, not a computer


If it's essentially the same, it shouldn't be a problem to put it in LFD.


Sure, but it's not, and there's no reason to devote development time into putting it into LFD because it's essentially the same

Since it's essentially the same, why complain about it?
Once again, why the hell do people care if there is an easier difficulty level that drops lower level loot and is accessible through automatic grouping?

I seriously don't get it. You have your mythics and now you have your mythic+ so what tiny little flake of skin is it off your shiny behind if other people have a more accessible version of the same content?

These topics just roll on and on. Epeen stroking gamer dude says "hey, mythic is easy for me, therefore it should be easy for everybody" or "getting groups is easy for me, therefore it should be easy for everybody".

A huge variety of different types of people play this game. Not all of them are like you. Not all of them remotely want to be like you.
09/17/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
09/17/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Phildunphy
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion


To that I have to ask: what did these people do back in Wrath and before, when LFG wasn't a thing AT ALL?


I would assume many of them didn't play back then. That's not meant in a derogatory way, I'm just thinking of what makes sense. The highest level of dungeon content has been queueable since 3.3 (Or was it 3.2)? We've had a long time to get acclimated to it. That's a long time for new players to come in and get used to it.

Now myself, I'm going to go back to doing what I did before LFD was introduced: Run with guildies. Even if they aren't the best, finding a nice casual group of friends who won't get frustrated with a few wipes will improve your enjoyment with the game immensely. Just a piece of advice, if you find yourself unwanting to pug them.

It's about time WoW had more reasons to be social.
09/17/2016 03:53 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
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If it's essentially the same, it shouldn't be a problem to put it in LFD.


Sure, but it's not, and there's no reason to devote development time into putting it into LFD because it's essentially the same

Since it's essentially the same, why complain about it?


Some people think anything in LFG will "kill" the community. When I'm reality hardly anyone talks to begin with.
I think that this isn't quite right either to be honest.

Normal modes are easier than I remember normals.. ever being.

Heroics are like normal with 1-2 additional abilities / higher numbers of damage / health but still mostly face-roll except for a few bosses which are terrible if mechanics aren't followed.

Mythic isn't the same as other heroics I've done. Mythics are still challenging. They are however MORE forgiving than WOD Mythics by a good bit.. They don't have a whole lot of "screw one thing up, and 1 shot" type of mechanics to them. With a guild group of people who know their classes and observe the mechanics they're really easy. Pugging them with people who don't know the fights ... and they're going to hurt.

Telling people that they're literally the same as heroics isn't really fair. Because heroics for the most part even without knowing mechanics can be done with little to no coordination. There is some coordination / communication which needs to happen in mythics... which is why you can't queue for them.

That being said, they're NOT scary. Please jump in! You never know what fun you could have if you give things a shot.
09/17/2016 03:53 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
09/17/2016 03:46 PMPosted by Lughnasadh
...

If it's essentially the same, it shouldn't be a problem to put it in LFD.


Sure, but it's not, and there's no reason to devote development time into putting it into LFD because it's essentially the same

Since it's essentially the same, why complain about it?


Actually, there is by virtue of a larger amount of the player base being able to access them. But since they aren't, I don't think Bliz doesn't agree with your assessment of them.
09/17/2016 03:50 PMPosted by Saninicus
09/17/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Phildunphy
I think one of the big differences is you could queue for heroic (yellow) in wod lfd and you can't queue for "yellow" in legion


Not only that. The premade finder is little more than community gating ala gear score back in wrath. Now I know the "make your own group" cop-out out is coming. But it still stands that most groups are asking WELL above ilvl.


Actually most groups seem to ask around 830+ for the Arcway and Court of Stars, which is VERY easily obtainable from heroics and world quests by the time you unlock them

Other Mythics generally ask around 825+, which is also easily reachable, and there isn't even any extra content you'd be "missing out on" if you didn't go to them, they're just a difficulty spike
09/17/2016 03:30 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
From what I've seen, it seems a lot of people are stuck thinking that Blizzard is locking things behind the "hardcore only" Mythic difficulty, when this is simply not true

Let's take a step back to Pandaria and earlier: we had 2 dungeon difficulties, Normal and Heroic, with Pandaria having Challenge mode which was sorta its own separate thing

I'm not interested in old history of things that happened long before I started playing. I don't see why I should be. Or for that matter, why the main controlling factor of the direction the game made should be old mistakes, because nostalgia.
09/17/2016 03:59 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
09/17/2016 03:50 PMPosted by Saninicus
...

Not only that. The premade finder is little more than community gating ala gear score back in wrath. Now I know the "make your own group" cop-out out is coming. But it still stands that most groups are asking WELL above ilvl.


Actually most groups seem to ask around 830+ for the Arcway and Court of Stars, which is VERY easily obtainable from heroics and world quests by the time you unlock them

Other Mythics generally ask around 825+, which is also easily reachable, and there isn't even any extra content you'd be "missing out on" if you didn't go to them, they're just a difficulty spike


Key word right now. Once raids open up I'm sure the ilvl will increase dramatically like in WoD.
09/17/2016 04:03 PMPosted by Saninicus
09/17/2016 03:59 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
...

Actually most groups seem to ask around 830+ for the Arcway and Court of Stars, which is VERY easily obtainable from heroics and world quests by the time you unlock them

Other Mythics generally ask around 825+, which is also easily reachable, and there isn't even any extra content you'd be "missing out on" if you didn't go to them, they're just a difficulty spike


Key word right now. Once raids open up I'm sure the ilvl will increase dramatically like in WoD.


Once raids open up you'll have LFR to queue for to keep up with the increased ilevel demand
09/17/2016 03:37 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
To that I have to ask: what did these people do back in Wrath and before, when LFG wasn't a thing AT ALL?


Doing dailies, leveling other toons, talking with my guild, MAYBE doing one dungeon every two or three days. And never a heroic unless it was a guild group ready to go for the daily heroic.

And I unlocked Arcway and Court of Stars today. Literally two groups for Arcway (of course needing a healer), and none for Court of Stars. I realize those are behind a long quest chain, but that's going to be part of the problem finding a group. That quest chain is one of those "glad I did it once, but never again" type things, and since Blizzard wants you to do that chain on every character to unlock Arcway and Court of Stars, that will seriously limit the supply of available party members, especially tanks and healers.
09/17/2016 03:58 PMPosted by Lughnasadh
09/17/2016 03:53 PMPosted by Kynlaylaria
...

Sure, but it's not, and there's no reason to devote development time into putting it into LFD because it's essentially the same

Since it's essentially the same, why complain about it?


Actually, there is by virtue of a larger amount of the player base being able to access them. But since they aren't, I don't think Bliz doesn't agree with your assessment of them.


Regarding accessibility, players can access the premade finder out the gate. They can't access LFD until level 15
09/17/2016 03:56 PMPosted by Leeah
I think that this isn't quite right either to be honest.

Normal modes are easier than I remember normals.. ever being.

Heroics are like normal with 1-2 additional abilities / higher numbers of damage / health but still mostly face-roll except for a few bosses which are terrible if mechanics aren't followed.

Mythic isn't the same as other heroics I've done. Mythics are still challenging. They are however MORE forgiving than WOD Mythics by a good bit.. They don't have a whole lot of "screw one thing up, and 1 shot" type of mechanics to them. With a guild group of people who know their classes and observe the mechanics they're really easy. Pugging them with people who don't know the fights ... and they're going to hurt.

Telling people that they're literally the same as heroics isn't really fair. Because heroics for the most part even without knowing mechanics can be done with little to no coordination. There is some coordination / communication which needs to happen in mythics... which is why you can't queue for them.

That being said, they're NOT scary. Please jump in! You never know what fun you could have if you give things a shot.


Heroic dungeons in past expansions were never easy without good teamwork and consumables at the first introduction of each expansion. They only became "fairly easy" by out-gearing them or being carried through them by people who outgear the content.

Mythics are now the new "Heroics and you need to bring your 'A' game, and use interrupts, CC and coordinate dps and burn down targets, also not standing in the fire. If you do all of that, then yes they are not to hard, I am sure the same goes for these new Mythic dungeons. Because of the level of coordination required, Bliz feels that DF would cause more frustration than fun for the avg player and therefore you need to find groups manually, in hopes that it will mean you might take the effort to coordinate the dungeon if you took the time to find a group.
Mythics not being included in LFD accomplishes a number of things:

  • Sets a bare minimum coordination requirement.
  • Encourages players to communicate with one another.
  • Brings some sense of the "world" back by forcing at least two of your players to journey to the dungeon entrance.
  • It also gives players more control over their group, which some might see as a bad thing. But I think Blizzard realizes the benefits outweigh the downsides. I hope this sets a precedent for finally getting rid of LFR.

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