Official: Can't Complete Raid Quests Cont'd

General Discussion
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If they wanted to gate an appearance behind normal raiding, it should have been one of the alternate tints. Making it the baseline is just poor design.

And not announcing it until after LFR opened was a horrendously poor decision. As is not clarifying which raid quests can and cannot be completed in LFR. All around, an absolutely poor showing after an exemplary expansion launch, especially given their consistent claims of wanting to establish better communication.
Blizzard needs to wake the !@#$ up and stop %^-*ing with their customers.

Blizzard, let me break it down for you.

Piss off customers x 1 = ppl stop playing

Piss of customers x over and over = loss of subs

loss of subscriptions = less money

Less money = less jobs

Ffs blizzard know ur !@#$ing audience and stop screwing us over!
09/27/2016 04:06 PMPosted by Adyarin
09/27/2016 04:04 PMPosted by Skrie
I stopped playing in WoD after leveling a few characters over a couple months because it just wasn't very fun. I like the new leveling experience in Legion (third to 110 already), but the rep/ap grind and repetitiveness of world quests has already started to wear me down since I mainly play for alts and 5mans with a couple friends. Probably just going to stop playing again if the Suramar questline can't be completed in LFR since I've spent a good chunk of time questing for those mana addicts.


There would be a full scale riot if loremaster & pathfinder were unable to be completed via LFR, you don't really have anything to worry about.


I hope you're right of course, but these days I really can't depend on hope with Blizzard. Consider the "full scale riot" that went down with the whole flying kerfuffle in WoD. Blizzard had to have seen that coming, and they did it anyway.
I'm not too concerned with those particular quests being something you can't complete on LFR. It's just cosmetics, and the storyline isn't terribly important to the greater lore from what I'm told (though if I'm wrong about that I'll gladly grab my pitchfork with everyone else, because story must always be accessible to all). However, the following things are problematic:

1: The communication here is awful. Seriously, they give no indication this can't be done in LFR until it's live? How could they possibly not expect that to piss people off?

2: This better damn well not apply to the quest you need to do to finish Suramar. Gating flight is awful to begin with, but gating flight behind organized raiding? I'm struggling to imagine anything that could be more obnoxious.

3: It makes no sense at all that you can't unlock the appearance from killing eight world bosses until you do another achievement that's much, much harder.

09/27/2016 04:30 PMPosted by Mystraele
I hope you're right of course, but these days I really can't depend on hope with Blizzard. Consider the "full scale riot" that went down with the whole flying kerfuffle in WoD. Blizzard had to have seen that coming, and they did it anyway.


Yeah, this. The WoW dev team have not exactly proven themselves trustworthy lately.
09/27/2016 04:06 PMPosted by Adyarin
...

There would be a full scale riot if loremaster & pathfinder were unable to be completed via LFR, you don't really have anything to worry about.

flying is bad for the game, not finishing a quest chain in ifr is bad for the game as well, its not close to the same, flying removes gameplay, and not being able to complete this in ifr removes gameplay as well

I hope you're right of course, but these days I really can't depend on hope with Blizzard. Consider the "full scale riot" that went down with the whole flying kerfuffle in WoD. Blizzard had to have seen that coming, and they did it anyway.
Come on blizzard let us complete the quests on LFR!
Do we really need 20 more tired pages of tears because a raiding cosmetic reward requires raiding? It's a trophy for doing difficult content. Games tend to have stuff like this. You want it? Go get it.
09/27/2016 04:39 PMPosted by Dreagan
Do we really need 20 more tired pages of tears because a raiding cosmetic reward requires raiding? It's a trophy for doing difficult content. Games tend to have stuff like this. You want it? Go get it.


Lol normal isn't hard, but its annoying enough to make me not want to do it on alts, and I wanted the skin on alts, why make it require normal when theres two other colors that are gated by it, that are even easier, its not like its gets harder and harder, the 15 mythic keystone is the true hard one.
I will say this again:

BLIZZARD NEEDS TO CLARIFY WHAT QUESTS CAN BE DONE IN LFR. TODAY. NOT TOMORROW. NOT THE DAY XAVIUS BECOMES AVAILABLE.

Get yer rears in here, blues.
09/27/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Árryk
I will say this again:

BLIZZARD NEEDS TO CLARIFY WHAT QUESTS CAN BE DONE IN LFR. TODAY. NOT TOMORROW. NOT THE DAY XAVIUS BECOMES AVAILABLE.

Get yer rears in here, blues.

You're asking for too much.
09/27/2016 04:45 PMPosted by Claimhsolais
09/27/2016 04:44 PMPosted by Árryk
I will say this again:

BLIZZARD NEEDS TO CLARIFY WHAT QUESTS CAN BE DONE IN LFR. TODAY. NOT TOMORROW. NOT THE DAY XAVIUS BECOMES AVAILABLE.

Get yer rears in here, blues.

You're asking for too much.


I know, but I live in hope.
We're 4 pages into a continuation thread of another one that capped almost faster than anything I've seen since the RealID argument.

Yet have we received a response from anyone at Blizzard? Watcher? Our sole remaining CM ("A Blue") on General Discussion? Anything on Twitter? Reddit?

What did we get? We got an announcement on a Battle.net page (not even stickeyed on the forums; if it weren't for someone having started the thread this one continues, I'd have logged in tonight and tried to zone into LFR thinking I could start working on my quest), and utter silence since.

Just like the utter silence we've had since before Legion's launch on when the full Legion Pathfinder meta-achievement can be completed so we can use our flying mounts. Not a single peep.

"Every voice matters", Blizzard's corporate philosophy says... except apparently the players', when they make their case known in reasonable fashion (and some not so reasonable) on the central place Blizzard has given us to interact with them: the discussion forums.

You know, where Bashiok, Lore, Lyllira, and (dearly departed) Ghostcrawler used to regularly engage with us. Even when we were behaving like twatwaffles (and often many posters were).

Worse, this "announcement" indicates the quest text will be fixed in an upcoming patch. So how many players are going to log on this evening, attempting to zone into LFR to work on that quest, only to come to the forums after they clear the first wing and ask if it's bugged somehow, since not a single Essence dropped for them?

Which will turn into complaints about grinding. Blizzard also said we wouldn't be grinding to finish the reps needed for Pathfinder in Legion, but damned if those World Quests aren't starting to feel awfully grindy as I go out there mindlessly killing mobs, collecting up "ancient mana" to feed to crack elves, and wander Suramar hoping not to be seen by too many guards at once so I can just finish my damned quests and get out of there.

Silence. We're greeted with utter silence. Nothing from Blizzard on ANY of the issues people are bringing up.

Silence.

But damned if we don't get email from them if we close our account, or if something doesn't clear on the auto-renew. Wow, we certainly get some effing communication THEN.

We get some communication when they tell us all about an upcoming Mythic-only dungeon so people who use Dungeon Finder are locked out of it.

We get some communication when they apply nerfs to nearly every class.

But when they drop a bomb on release day for LFR that it can't be used to complete a quest?

Silence.

But you really like that subscription fee, don't you, Blizzard? You like our money. You just give us a big effing middle finger when we first ask, then plead, then start demanding, then start rudely insisting that you just ACKNOWLEDGE OUR EXISTENCE AND OFFER A LITTLE EFFING CLARITY ON WHY YOU'RE MAKING SOME DESIGN DECISIONS THAT IMPACT PLAYERS IN A FASHION THEY THINK IS NEGATIVE.
09/27/2016 03:39 PMPosted by Xalvadori
09/27/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Krara
I see no problem with, among other choices, some of the artifact appearances mean "I cleared content meant for organized raid teams." And of course those quests should not be done in LFR.

Appearances are the perfect sort of content for this treatment. They don't gate the pursuit of any other in game goal, there's a large variety of them, different ones are earned by many different means, etc etc.


The problem is not that... the problem is that if you go into lfr it shows that you CAN loot it from lfr but can't, the problem is that this was announced THIS morning, not yesterday, not on release, not last week, TODAY, that's the problem, there's also the obvious fear of people not being able to complete Good Suramaritan since that requires a raid boss kill.


I am someone who really don't care a lot about flying or about having to do the Pathfinder achievement. Actually, in many of my posts I have defended the achievement repeatedly.

With that said, if earning flying requires a raid boss kill outside of LFR, I really think that would be taking the achievement too far just to earn flying. While I personally don't care much about flying, this is something I feel people would definitely have a reason to be upset about. There is a big difference between doing a fairly quick and easy to get into LFR and doing actual raiding. I have done both and know the difference in that.

This is something we still don't know for sure yet regarding if killing a raid boss outside of LFR is needed to fly. I do hope that will not be the case. As I said, I don't care much personally, but I would find this a bit of a slap in the face to a large part of the player base if that ends up being the case.

As far as cosmetic items, I don't have an issue with. Them not stating this until LFR went live isn't very cool either.
Look out! The casuals are up in arms! They aren't getting everything now! so in 3 weeks time they can start crying about the lack of content....

The concept of LFR is a FAILED concept. Normal raids are already easy. To add a layer of content that make it even easier is just insane. But thats a discussion for another thread.

In 3 short weeks all the guilds clearing normal mode will have finished the quest to skip straight to Xavius, So all the people that want to complete the quest can do so by easily using the LFR option and ask one of there raiding friends to skip them to the last boss.

This entitlement to everything now needs to end. You cant have everything without SOME commitment. If you don't want to or do not have the time to make the commitment THEN you wait until its available to all through an alternate condition.

Am i giving Blizzard a pass on there poor communication skills, NO! But jumping up and down like a bunch of entitled prats does nothing. Berate then for poor communication but do not complain about the process of achieving the goal when its clear and apparent that there are other options built into the game that will allow you to complete the quest eventually.........
"The attitude of "Raid or die" contributed to a product that is an irreparable black mark on the history of our company. What should our stance be going forward?"

"RAID OR DIE!"
09/27/2016 03:38 PMPosted by Kiaren
Compared to other expansions I already feel like Legion has been about as much fun as a heart attack if we are being honest. The pre-patch events were 10x more fun, they could have made that the expansion and it would have been better value for money.


Totally agree with this. I loved the invasions. They were a blast on all toons and specs. They got me sooo hyped for Legion which sadly turned out to be anti-fun, anti-certain classes and specs, anti-professions, anti-PvE choice, anti-flight, anti-alts and anti-casual at least for me personally.

Raid or die, one toon only or GTFO which is what I'll do in 19 days.

Just pray that your one and only main doesn't get killed with the nerfbat a few weeks down the road LOL
This makes me happy haha
This seriously sucks. It probably sucks quite a bit for other classes who just have a weapon appearance or three locked behind this nonsense, but druids have their freaking' forms locked behind it. To be shown those forms since legion launch and be given a month's time to daydream of having them only to be told %$!# you sucks.
09/27/2016 03:30 PMPosted by Varanus
Because you need the first one , to access the other colors. So even if you earn those 3? Well *insert expletive here* you.


This has to be looked at >.> no reason to lock color variants

09/27/2016 05:00 PMPosted by Kyveli
"The attitude of "Raid or die" contributed to a product that is an irreparable black mark on the history of our company. What should our stance be going forward?"


Except this expansion offers a metric ton of progression OUTSIDE of raiding
My $0.02 for whatever it's worth.

This is the first raid tier of the expac and the artifact skin is gated behind it. Let those that push through the current content enjoy the prestige of showing off their cosmetic weapon skin.

In a few months a new raid will be out and our gear will make normal emerald nightmare trivial, and it will become even more and more trivial as this expansion goes on.

You're not permanently gated from obtaining this prestige cosmetic, so let those that do obtain it while content is fresh, have the ability to show it off a little.

It's a brief period of time for folks to feel a little special for completing a raid.

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