Official: Can't Complete Raid Quests Cont'd

General Discussion
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09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


You do realize that by doing this, you limit us to three weapon skins this xpac.......3!
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Can you please confirm whether or not Pathfinder will require regular raid bosses or LFR?
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


WHY limit it though? WHY make it "exclusive" because in truth, it WONT be. People will just be charging gold for carries through raids like they did with the moose mount etc.

SO tell me.... HOW is that "exclusive" giving these "elite" raiders, the ability, to sucker the people too busy to do LFG pugs etc. out of their gold?

These decisions make me go wtf.....Legion seems pretty 'hardcore' and after so many years, a lot of us have gone more casual. ESPECIALLY after WoD.

I think you're going to lose a lot of subs with these bad decisions....

ETA: This is coming from a person who's done 7/7N two weeks in a row but would sometimes rather just relax and do LFR, especially as I am a single mom and don't want like the stress of pugs.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


So long as it remains only for stuff that's cosmetic, I don't see any issues with it. When I didn't get any corrupted essences in LFR this evening, my mind immediatly had concerns over things like The Stuff of Dreams, where story-based content would be uncompeltable in LFR, which would basically throw a massive monkey wrench into many players ability to not only get flying out of the Suramar Campaign, but also basically give a giant middle finger to their work up to that point.

So long as it's cosmetic only crap, and REMAINS Cosmetic only, no fuss, no problem. It's just that concern that eventually story-based quests won't be completed in LFR is what has people worried, and rightfully so. It is a slipper slope, and we don't want another WoD issue where LFR suddenly drops purposefully made inferior-statted, and inferior looking, gear.
09/27/2016 05:20 PMPosted by Zistar
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Can you please confirm whether or not Pathfinder will require regular raid bosses or LFR?


...they did. Reread the post.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Right on!

Thou while i have you for a second, fire your PR people! Communication is key. lets not forget that.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.

Why not make it like normal raid tiers, where LFR gets the base version, and each subsequent difficulty unlocks a unique colour?
Why allow us to do the quest chain in the first place? Getting a group together for a mythic dungeon is a lot different to getting a group for a raid.
Yea if the completed pathfinder requires anything beyond LFR completion I will have to bow out. I can't promise my guild will be able to complete it and I won't pug.
These quest aren't essential to completing the story, flying requirements, etc. It's cosmetic only. Every part of the game doesn't need to be spoon fed to everyone that's not willing to put in any effort.

Completing a run on normal mode is an absolute joke. It's so easy pugs were killing Xavius the first day. Just put in some effort.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Thanks for the clarification. I personally don't have any issue with things like this being put behind organized raid content. Some of the best items in game should be obtained by doing the more challenging content in my opinion.

My only issue was if flying required that, I felt that would have truly been a step taken too far. While I don't mind the Pathfinder achievement personally, I just think that would have been unfair for many.

Again, thanks for the clarification.
A simple solution would be to make it so you can complete the quests in LFR if you've already completed Balance of Power on another toon. (which would require Normal+)

That solves the problem with not being able to complete it on alts, as it lets us do it on alts through LFR, while already proving we were capable of doing it through non-matchmaking content, as Ornyx stated.

Most of the people with issues over it aren't complaining because of ONE toon. They're complaining because the drop rate of the essences is crap, and if you're unlucky it can take 4-5 months to get all 30. And for some of us, we want to unlock all of the skins on all 12 classes. Which means we'd have to PuG normal on all of those classes. That's a LOT of raiding. Not something that's going to happen.
09/27/2016 05:22 PMPosted by Nelya
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.

Again, a cosmetic reward we are reserving for those who participate in organized, non-matchmade content.

This is not something you, by any means, "need". And "needing" it on every alt, doubly so. If you desire it, then organize a raid or join a guild that will put you in their raiding ranks and dedicate the time to obtaining the items.

We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.

I appreciate constructive feedback and discussion on this topic, and will discuss what's here with the developers once it's had time to settle, but anything that says "the world is ending" or "blizzard is killing their player-base" because not everyone will get a cosmetic skin is a bit of a fallacy.
09/27/2016 05:19 PMPosted by Lorinthon
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


You do realize that by doing this, you limit us to three weapon skins this xpac.......3!


Considering how few DH warglaive models there are in the game to actually choose from, it's even worse for them.

Normal EN is one of the easiest things to do, so while you may not get it now I'm sure you'll get it in the not too distant future either way. It's a bit crappy that you only have x amount of skins to choose from with these artifacts, and as everyone has different personal tastes for art, some may just never get the one they really love for their class.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Well, thanks for clarifying. I hope Blizzard enjoys the massive cancellations after this.

I won't even bother anymore. I can tolerate LFR, but not, "for participating in organized, non-matchmade content.".

I'm just curious if any Blizzard employee has ever tried to get into one of these non-matchmade raids. It's not enjoyable at all, with all the restrictions and rejections, just because you don't have a certain ilvl, class, spec, or artifact lvl now.
09/27/2016 05:25 PMPosted by Vengyrr
These quest aren't essential to completing the story, flying requirements, etc. It's cosmetic only. Every part of the game doesn't need to be spoon fed to everyone that's not willing to put in any effort.

Completing a run on normal mode is an absolute joke. It's so easy pugs were killing Xavius the first day. Just put in some effort.


Can confirm, I pugged my way through Normal EN and currently, there are Pugs doing Heroic EN, though not quite as easily.
09/27/2016 05:20 PMPosted by Xiata
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


WHY limit it though? WHY make it "exclusive" because in truth, it WONT be. People will just be charging gold for carries through raids like they did with the moose mount etc.

SO tell me.... HOW is that "exclusive" giving these "elite" raiders, the ability, to sucker the people too busy to do LFG pugs etc. out of their gold?

These decisions make me go wtf.....Legion seems pretty 'hardcore' and after so many years, a lot of us have gone more casual. ESPECIALLY after WoD.

I think you're going to lose a lot of subs with these bad decisions....


You guys already got tier gear and trinkets back in LFR and now people are complaining that normal+ raids get some cosmetics. Are we allowed to get any rewards for doing difficult content? Where's the anger towards the PvP weapon skins? A lot of raiders won't get those either but you don't hear a peep out of us.
09/27/2016 05:20 PMPosted by Zistar


Can you please confirm whether or not Pathfinder will require regular raid bosses or LFR?


''The Stuff of Dreams'' is the only part of the Suramar campaign that requires a raid. So yes, since it can be completed in LFR, you can earn Loremaster (and thus Pathfinder) by only doing one boss in LFR.

Which is only right. I'm OK with a cosmetic skin being only available in Normal+, since that's no different from the Heroic+ mounts of yore. But if Loremaster requires a raid, it should only require the easiest raiding difficulty.
09/27/2016 05:26 PMPosted by Ornyx
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Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.

Again, a cosmetic reward we are reserving for those who participate in organized, non-matchmade content.

This is not something you, by any means, "need". And "needing" it on every alt, doubly so. If you desire it, then organize a raid or join a guild that will put you in their raiding ranks and dedicate the time to obtaining the items.

We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.

I appreciate constructive feedback and discussion on this topic, and will discuss what's here with the developers once it's had time to settle, but anything that says "the world is ending" or "blizzard is killing their player-base" because not everyone will get a cosmetic skin is a bit of a fallacy.


Thats an awesome response.
As a lot of people have said, its a bit frustrating to have the raid one be required to unlock the other 3, which all do not require instanced raids. It doesn't seem to fit the same theme.

The other skins seem to progress from an easier objective to a harder, or more time intensive objective(a la completing part of the class campaign to the entire class campaign), but this skin seems to go in reverse order compared to the other artifact skin rows. This one seems to go from hard content(a raid) to easier content(heroic dungeons, world bosses).

It just seems like the first one for this artifact skin should be the "Glory to the Legion Hero" or the world raid boss one and then go to progressively more difficult content, which may be pursued as a specialized path, like the Mythic 15 or Raid unlock. This would be more congruent with how the other artifact skin rows are laid out from left to right in a sort of stepwise fashion(loosely). As it stands now those who plan to use Mythic+ as their "end game" are basically not going to be rewarded a unique artifact skin or color for Mythic+ since it is locked behind the raid achievement. Seems off.

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