Official: Can't Complete Raid Quests Cont'd

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09/27/2016 05:32 PMPosted by Demues
09/27/2016 05:26 PMPosted by Ornyx
We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.


Should consider the allowing other color variants to be unlockable however, since I doubt stuff like "world bosses" are organized/channlenging


if the whole row was the organized raiding row I would have been fine with it. but they are locking easy to get skins behind it for some reason
We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.


Hey, that's great. Now why do I have to do it on every single character or else lose the opportunity forever once legion ends?

This stuff needs to be ACCOUNT WIDE if the time invested is this obscene.
09/27/2016 05:33 PMPosted by Fyna
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Again, a cosmetic reward we are reserving for those who participate in organized, non-matchmade content.

This is not something you, by any means, "need". And "needing" it on every alt, doubly so. If you desire it, then organize a raid or join a guild that will put you in their raiding ranks and dedicate the time to obtaining the items.

We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.

I appreciate constructive feedback and discussion on this topic, and will discuss what's here with the developers once it's had time to settle, but anything that says "the world is ending" or "blizzard is killing their player-base" because not everyone will get a cosmetic skin is a bit of a fallacy.


I guess my largest concern is that it's not accountwide; if I want to unlock the appearance on a specific alt, I need to gear and raid with a class I may not be very good at, which hurts not only be but the raid team.

If it was accountwide I'd have absolutely no issue with it, as I'd be able to use my main either now or in a future patch to complete the quest line. But as it stands now, it's not going to be fun for anyone involved.

Thanks for the feedback.

It's helpful to know, as you did, how this impacts you as a player and I appreciate that you relayed what we could change to make this more positive for you.
09/27/2016 05:27 PMPosted by Targon
09/27/2016 05:20 PMPosted by Zistar


Can you please confirm whether or not Pathfinder will require regular raid bosses or LFR?


''The Stuff of Dreams'' is the only part of the Suramar campaign that requires a raid. So yes, since it can be completed in LFR, you can earn Loremaster (and thus Pathfinder) by only doing one boss in LFR.

Which is only right. I'm OK with a cosmetic skin being only available in Normal+, since that's no different from the Heroic+ mounts of yore. But if Loremaster requires a raid, it should only require the easiest raiding difficulty.


Thank you for clarifying, I hadn't remembered the quest name. While this confirms it's not required for Part 1, we still have no idea what will be required for the later installments.

I am also fine with the cosmetic stuff being difficult to get, I approve completely. But I feel really burned by WoD's bait and switch and all the back-peddling regarding flying.
Hey, I have a question.

If the high-end PvE cosmetic isn't acquirable on LFR because it's supposed to be a reward for being really good at PvE, why can I get the PvP artifact without ever killing another player?

World Quests for Warden Towers reward a decent amount of Honor per completion, and all of the World Quest arenas let me complete them without so much as attacking another player in the process because there are NPCs in them to kill.

On a PvE server, rarely do people see fit to defend a Warden Tower. Often in the Darkbrul Arena, fellow players will simply help each other kill the same NPC instead of ever attacking each other.

Currently I'm at Honor Rank 40-ish, 0 Prestige, and I haven't been focusing on the PvP world quests very much. I haven't queued for a single battleground or arena, either rated or unrated, in Legion.

It is entirely possible for me to unlock all four PvP artifact appearances without ever killing another player, and that will in fact be my preferred way of doing it.

Why did Blizzard make this possible by creating World PvP quests that reward the Honor needed to eventually unlock PvP artifact appearances through PvE objectives?
I'd also like to point out that Normal EN will end up being insanely easy to do before Legion gets done.

So, if you don't want to do it now, wait 6 months to a year, then when you've completely outgeared it to the point of it being irrelevant, go farm it for a month and bam, you got your cosmetic reward.

Or, you can put in some effort, get it done now and have the reward sooner.
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Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.

Again, a cosmetic reward we are reserving for those who participate in organized, non-matchmade content.

This is not something you, by any means, "need". And "needing" it on every alt, doubly so. If you desire it, then organize a raid or join a guild that will put you in their raiding ranks and dedicate the time to obtaining the items.

We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.

I appreciate constructive feedback and discussion on this topic, and will discuss what's here with the developers once it's had time to settle, but anything that says "the world is ending" or "blizzard is killing their player-base" because not everyone will get a cosmetic skin is a bit of a fallacy.


When you start seeing your sub numbers drop don't ask why. People really get fed up with this stuff. I have zero issue with having something that looks cool for raiders, but tie it to an achievement or something, not a quest line everyone assumes they can complete because it comes out of the Class halls.

That doesn't even bring up the fact that it locks the entire model. At least the hidden one is easy to get.
Thank you for the quick response. Happy as long as it's only a skin. As long as I can complete pathfinder without having to jump ship on my guild, pug it or pay for a carry.
09/27/2016 05:16 PMPosted by Cirno
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


Good to have confirmation on Stuff of Dreams, at least.

But you guys had a lot of time to tell people/update the quest to show that it couldn't be done in LFR, why wait until the day-of?


They had a lot of time to do a lot of things but they waited for legion to go live.
LFR Heroes Assemble! In the form of... WHINING BRIGADE!
09/27/2016 05:27 PMPosted by Darkoo
09/27/2016 05:20 PMPosted by Xiata
...

WHY limit it though? WHY make it "exclusive" because in truth, it WONT be. People will just be charging gold for carries through raids like they did with the moose mount etc.

SO tell me.... HOW is that "exclusive" giving these "elite" raiders, the ability, to sucker the people too busy to do LFG pugs etc. out of their gold?

These decisions make me go wtf.....Legion seems pretty 'hardcore' and after so many years, a lot of us have gone more casual. ESPECIALLY after WoD.

I think you're going to lose a lot of subs with these bad decisions....


You guys already got tier gear and trinkets back in LFR and now people are complaining that normal+ raids get some cosmetics. Are we allowed to get any rewards for doing difficult content? Where's the anger towards the PvP weapon skins? A lot of raiders won't get those either but you don't hear a peep out of us.


Excellent point and I agree with you completely.
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I guess my largest concern is that it's not accountwide; if I want to unlock the appearance on a specific alt, I need to gear and raid with a class I may not be very good at, which hurts not only be but the raid team.

If it was accountwide I'd have absolutely no issue with it, as I'd be able to use my main either now or in a future patch to complete the quest line. But as it stands now, it's not going to be fun for anyone involved.

Thanks for the feedback.

It's helpful to know, as you did, how this impacts you as a player and I appreciate that you relayed what we could change to make this more positive for you.


Instead of straight-up account wide, I still suggest making LFR drop the essences after completing the quest on a toon in Normal+.

That way we still earn it on alts. That way, you don't really compromise much, and we still have more reasons to do LFR later in the expansion. (Something you guys were trying to come up with, if I recall). I know I for one enjoy having things that pull me into LFR rather than just having one more thing to queue for just for a chance at loot.

The fact that it draws people into raids with classes they might not be good at is another reason that is good, and I'm glad it was brought up.

I for one suck at druid in raids but I'm good in dungeons, but I reallllly want the Balance of Power Druid Bear Skin, as it's incredible. But do I really want to possibly wipe raids multiple times trying to get it? Not really. That's why I was looking forward to LFRing on her for it, as I can usually pass off decent DPS as a druid in LFR.
09/27/2016 05:34 PMPosted by Katiera
09/27/2016 05:32 PMPosted by Demues
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Should consider the allowing other color variants to be unlockable however, since I doubt stuff like "world bosses" are organized/channlenging


if the whole row was the organized raiding row I would have been fine with it. but they are locking easy to get skins behind it for some reason

Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it? The gate is harder than what's behind it.

That would be like if it were Hogger at the top of the Black Temple sporting Ashbringer.

The reward structure is completely backwards Blizzard, don't you realize that?
Is this what gaming has turned into?

I remember when I started playing and I came across a player with prestigious gear. It was inspiring. I wanted that cool stuff, but I wanted to earn it, so people would look upon me the way I looked upon that guy.

Now people seem to just want the reward for the minimal effort. It's rather saddening.
09/27/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Ornyx
It is intentional that the quests “In Nightmares” and “Essence of Power” cannot be completed on Raid Finder difficulty. That quest chain is intended to provide a cosmetic reward for participating in organized, non-matchmade content. As such, we wanted to keep this step in line with the previous steps in the chain, which require completing Mythic Dungeons.

This restriction is specific to this quest chain, which has a cosmetic-only reward. Other quest chains, such as “The Stuff of Dreams” from the Suramar campaign, will be completable through Raid Finder. We’ll be making some additional changes in Patch 7.1 to more clearly communicate when and where these restrictions apply.


As per the dev interviews leading up to Legion, with Mythic+ dungeons being considered a separate form of potential end game progression compared to raids, would it be possible in a future patch to consider splitting raids and dungeons into two separate artifact skins?

Something like this would seem to fit while keeping the objective of keeping the raid artifacts exclusive to raiders:

Raid artifact skin order:
1 - World Raid Bosses
2 - Normal or Above raid clear
3 - Raid Achievements
4 - Mythic Raid(super exclusive)

Dungeon artifact skin order:
1 - All heroic dungeons complete
2 - All mythic dungeons complete
3 - Glory of the X Hero achievment
4 - Mythic 15(or whatever level is very hard to achieve)

Legion is the first time we have had a scenario where dungeons can potentially be a true end game progression path based on the Mythic+ system. All other skins fit one specific type of content so it feels like the raid and dungeon progression avenues should have individual artifact skins. The raid isnt required for the pvp skin but that is as different to a raid as a hardcore 5 person dungeon crawl.
When you start seeing your sub numbers drop don't ask why. People really get fed up with this stuff. I have zero issue with having something that looks cool for raiders, but tie it to an achievement or something, not a quest line everyone assumes they can complete because it comes out of the Class halls.

That doesn't even bring up the fact that it locks the entire model. Seriously the color variations behind it are a cake walk.

If someone were to quit because they couldn't get a cosmetic skin on their weapon, then good riddance. They're not the type of people I'd want to be playing with.

The only valid reason I see for people being irritated, is that they believed they could complete the questline in LFR. Now that the rug has been pulled out from underneath them, they're a bit salty. I get that. However, that's not a good reason to just change it.

This is a cosmetic item. Nobody gets mad when they lock mounts behind mythic, so what's the difference? (Again, besides this complaint about being informed ahead of time.)
09/27/2016 05:41 PMPosted by Dreagan
09/27/2016 05:22 PMPosted by Nelya
...

Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.


I just bought a 20 buck token in your honor. One less whiny !@#$% makes the game better for everyone.


The sheep is strong in this one.
Ornyx

I am..pleased beyond words. You are one of the most helpful..and direct CM's I know.

I asked a simple question and got a simple, unambiguous answer.

Thank you.:)))))
09/27/2016 05:26 PMPosted by Ornyx
09/27/2016 05:22 PMPosted by Nelya
...

Thanks for confirming the inevitable. I'll be saving some money every month now, because I am done with this game. If this is intended and staying in the game, you just lost a customer. It is clear blizzard is clueless about their own game. I guess it's true, no King lives forever.

Good luck everyone. Blizzard, you failed.

Again, a cosmetic reward we are reserving for those who participate in organized, non-matchmade content.

This is not something you, by any means, "need". And "needing" it on every alt, doubly so. If you desire it, then organize a raid or join a guild that will put you in their raiding ranks and dedicate the time to obtaining the items.

We simply disagree that these skins should be handed out without dedication and challenge.

I appreciate constructive feedback and discussion on this topic, and will discuss what's here with the developers once it's had time to settle, but anything that says "the world is ending" or "blizzard is killing their player-base" because not everyone will get a cosmetic skin is a bit of a fallacy.


Well I think with the hundreds of responses that the casual gamer is the bread and butter of wow.... I think the backlash is because its a skin not a rare mount/gear

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