Fury Community Feedback

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10/03/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Haveth
10/03/2016 11:22 AMPosted by Melaroi
Now not everyone is going to be able to pull real life numbers the same as in simulations but it showed that the real world parses don't even come close to the sims.


The 840 ilvl sims on the simulationcraft website have wonky gear profiles that inflates Fury damage. For example the Fury profile is using Arcway/Court set bonuses while Arms is not. I also suspect that other classes aren't updating/maintaining their profiles and have inefficient APLs(action priority lists) which is why you see MM dead last despite dominating in raids, even on ST fights. If you want a sim comparison between Fury/Arms at N/H/M gear levels I actually ran them right after the latest balance pass:

https://i.imgur.com/xi6UvX5.png

Also, individual parses are fairly useless when discussing balance - this is why we have sites like Warcraftlogs where you can view the average of 20,000+ parses sorted by percentile. If you do want my anecdotal damage feedback though, I'm one of the highest geared people in the raid and regularly parse 90+ percentile - the only one who parses better than me frequently is an MM hunter. And yet, I'm somehow happy if I end up in the top 5 at the end of the fight. It just straight up feels like my extra effort isn't worth it - why shouldn't I just swap to enhancement and do significantly better dps while taking less damage?


Thank you, Haveth. Fury warriors from all over appreciate the efforts you have done to help highlight our troubles. I'm not the best at Simcraft so it's nice having someone who is good at it lead the charge so to speak.
Also, a big thanks to everyone that has posted so far - I put this thread up in the wee hours of the morning before I went to sleep and am happy to see the thread doing so well.
10/03/2016 11:33 AMPosted by Focketz
10/03/2016 01:04 AMPosted by Haveth
I don't want Fury to be #1, tippy top spec, but I do want to be a viable choice when my guild gets around to stepping into Mythic.

This! Please make Fury viable in raid content.


Fury is viable, in the sense that you can bring it in raids, and it has decent burst AoE, good damage on execute phase, and a nifty raid cooldown. On Normal and Heroic raids, it does well enough for itself in general and shouldn't hold back the raid. It is also pretty good in most Mythic+ levels thanks to good AoE, decent mobility and an area stun.

What Fury is not, is competitive, since there are specs that do what it does better. Outlaws, Enhancement and WW Monks (to name only those melee specs) have just better AoE AND ST, Spriest destroy our execute phase, and our raid cooldown just isn't enough to ensure a spot in serious Mythic progression when Arms does much better ST and nobody in Mythic relies on warriors for AoE in a world where Fire Mages and MM Hunters exist.
Come on Blizz show us some love.
+1

As a Fury Warrior, I'm completely frustrated. I am currently a casual raider and have played since launch. I have never felt as unhappy with something Blizzard has done to a class as I do now.

For a casual player Fury Warrior has several things that are going wrong with it currently.
1) The Social game - There are people out there who have no idea our class takes 30% more damage. It becomes a fight when they think your preforming poorly and you really aren't. The extra damage adds a very negative effect on your interactions with other players.
2) The Extra Damage - There is no reward? We gain nothing from it that is why it has a negative effect.
3) Your Guild - If you are not part of a very social guild, your ability to be part of mythic dungeons is extremely effected. You get turned away over and over, it has nothing to do with your skill. It all about who you know in the game currently.

I love the new animations. They are amazing. I love whirling around. We carry 2 two handed weapons and are 23rd in DPS. The largest weapons in the game and we don't have the ability to hit something hard?

4) Rotation - There is a ton of limitations on the rotation.

A1) Enrage has a 4-second timer? 4 seconds really? We have to stack haste so we can get 3 or 4 abilities in each enrage? So now we are trying to hit 4 or 5 buttons in 4 seconds? Do you understand the crazy amount of pressure that puts on a casual player let alone someone who is older or has latency issues? How about someone with a disability?

A2) Rampage - Looks amazing but costs way too much rage. Gives us an Enrage for free, great but we automatically lose 2 seconds of it. Enrage becomes a 2-second buff.

B) Execute - Right now there are 1 Talent and 6 points of your artifact weapon are focused on this ability and it can only affect 20% of the fight. There are a ton of resources that you have to lock in for the last 60 to 90 seconds of a boss fight and 5 seconds of any other fight. It's purely not fun because it is so limiting.

C) Dragon Roar vs Bladestorm - You made Dragon Roar default because has a 25-second cooldown with a 20% damage buff vs 1.5-minute cooldown with no effect. I get six dragon roars for 227,484 damage and 30 seconds of 20% extra damage vs 518,974 damage. Avatar gives us the remove roots effect with an additional 20% damage. Why would you ever pick Bladestorm? Why isn't Bladestorm buffing whirlwind? Shorten the cooldown on Bladestorm so we can use it more and make it a choice.
I'd be so happy if we just got a blue to acknowledge that the latest buffs were not enough change
We are also massively struggling in PvP from a mechanics standpoint.

Having absolutely no real defensive CD combined with Enraged Regeneration requiring us to stay on target? It's absolutely ridiculous. Slaughter House + Enraged Regen doesn't work most of the time I need it because I'm either dying in a root or a stun. (This is literally the only reliable "defensive" that we had and it's not even a real CD compared to every other spec I have on my alts. I cringe playing against ferals right now.)

The fact that we lost Die by the Sword while Arms has multiple defensive CDs makes our spec pretty much a masochistic choice in even casual PvP.

It honestly does not matter how much damage we're doing if we're dead on the floor because of stupid changes like this.

I can't touch rated PvP even if I wanted to because this spec is so abhorrently bad in any sort of organized play. Skirms week has been actually embarrassing because it's just run in and hope something dies. There's no counter play or skill involved with the spec anymore because there's no thoughtful play when you can't use defensives to stay alive.

I am not playing arms.
I quit raiding entirely because I was sick and tired of being told to play a spec I absolutely detest playing.
Now I have to do it for low MMR PvP as well?

Thank god my guild doesn't care about what spec I play for RBGs or I wouldn't be getting into yolos either.
I am sick of the silence the dev team has given us on the state of fury warriors, we can't get into any serious raids because of the increase in damage taken and we don't do nearly enough dps to compensate for it. I can't get dungeons done because as soon as I enter I'm asked "arms or fury" then kicked. The buff you gave us did nothing to help it maybe upped our dps by 10k but when your 100k behind arms that is not alot.

You either have to get rid of the extra damage taken altogether or make it so it is actually WORTH IT!
10/03/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Kryodin
I am sick of the silence the dev team has given us on the state of fury warriors, we can't get into any serious raids because of the increase in damage taken and we don't do nearly enough dps to compensate for it. I can't get dungeons done because as soon as I enter I'm asked "arms or fury" then kicked. The buff you gave us did nothing to help it maybe upped our dps by 10k but when your 100k behind arms that is not alot.

You either have to get rid of the extra damage taken altogether or make it so it is actually WORTH IT!


Yeah I could see a reduction to 15% more taken or something more realistic to the burden on healers. And an increase in damage to go along with it. When the top DPS classes have 0 damage taken increases but outperform most specs by a mile.. something is wrong with the very concept of fury.
Something should be done about pvp as well. Idk if you guys have tried arena as fury but holy hell it was the worst experience of my time in wow. I dont mind not being the best spec in pvp but when you have absolutely no chance to make a difference I find this irritating af.
10/03/2016 01:11 PMPosted by Surelock
Yeah I could see a reduction to 15% more taken or something more realistic to the burden on healers. And an increase in damage to go along with it. When the top DPS classes have 0 damage taken increases but outperform most specs by a mile.. something is wrong with the very concept of fury.


Many of them have better defensives, self-healing and/or immunities than Fury as well.
Yes, I dont think its very good class design that we take 30% increased damage while doing so much less than everyone else. Would make sense if we took that damage at a time of extreme burst but we dont even have that.
I hope the fact this thread is highly rated and getting a ton of the same positive notes from players will spark some acknowledgement from our lovely blues :D.
10/03/2016 11:42 AMPosted by Baidas
Those logs tell so much and yet so little when posted in that context. For example when looking at Marksman hunters at Heroic Ursoc they're doing 326k dps while their fury counterparts are doing 301k dps on the same boss fight (99th percentile over one week). I myself would personally consider that difference negligible. If Marksman hunters are considered the absolute best than fury I believe fury has nothing to be ashamed about. Certain fights I'm sure Hunters have a clear advantage while others are more competitive. it seems there is a gap of 20k dps (ursoc, nythendra, any single target oriented fights) that hunters have over fury warriors when fury are supposedly one of the worst specs out there... Hunters clearly have the aoe fights on lock but warriors aren't as bad as people make it out to be.

Please remember that it's not always about min/max raid scenarios when it comes to class balance. My biggest problem as a filthy casual this expansion is how terrible Fury's solo survivability is compared to it's DPS. If our HP is going to melt any time we enrage, we should at least has have increased DPS to compensate.

Personally, I would love to see something like ... The lower your health, the higher the DPS. This would fit class fantasy and would be a way to embrace the increased damage we take.
10/03/2016 02:05 PMPosted by Cullin
10/03/2016 11:42 AMPosted by Baidas
Those logs tell so much and yet so little when posted in that context. For example when looking at Marksman hunters at Heroic Ursoc they're doing 326k dps while their fury counterparts are doing 301k dps on the same boss fight (99th percentile over one week). I myself would personally consider that difference negligible. If Marksman hunters are considered the absolute best than fury I believe fury has nothing to be ashamed about. Certain fights I'm sure Hunters have a clear advantage while others are more competitive. it seems there is a gap of 20k dps (ursoc, nythendra, any single target oriented fights) that hunters have over fury warriors when fury are supposedly one of the worst specs out there... Hunters clearly have the aoe fights on lock but warriors aren't as bad as people make it out to be.

Please remember that it's not always about min/max raid scenarios when it comes to class balance. My biggest problem as a filthy casual this expansion is how terrible Fury's solo survivability is compared to it's DPS. If our HP is going to melt any time we enrage, we should at least has have increased DPS to compensate.

Personally, I would love to see something like ... The lower your health, the higher the DPS. This would fit class fantasy and would be a way to embrace the increased damage we take.


I've been forced to go protection for world quests half the time because I'm dying even when I don't have aggro.

It's getting old.
My alts aren't having even close to the same "issues" I had as Fury too while leveling.
10/03/2016 01:12 PMPosted by Stompzz
Something should be done about pvp as well. Idk if you guys have tried arena as fury but holy hell it was the worst experience of my time in wow. I dont mind not being the best spec in pvp but when you have absolutely no chance to make a difference I find this irritating af.


Yep, this is also what I most care about. Fury has such interesting honor talents and was always a more appealing pvp spec to me, but it is flat out 100% unplayable in Legion. Fury might be viable in raids/dungeons, but it is not remotely viable in competitive pvp.

Compare Fury to Arms pvp:
-Arms has more burst and sustained damage output in PvP.
-Arms doesn't take extra damage and can passively reduce damage by 20%; Fury takes 30% more damage.
-Arms has mortal strike, fury doesn't.

Let's look at what Fury has over Arms:
-A 4% max hp heal every 4s that hinges on attacking a target (so can't heal while stunned and the like).

That's it. Fury's sole advantage over arms is some ACTIVE self-healing that is outperformed by PASSIVE self-healing that many other specs get (i.e. sub rogues and feral druids).
10/03/2016 02:07 PMPosted by Shirt
I've been forced to go protection for world quests half the time because I'm dying even when I don't have aggro.

It's getting old.My alts aren't having even close to the same "issues" I had as Fury too while leveling.


I have also been doing world quests as Protection, for the increased survivability but also because I have to do 200 of them while wearing the hidden appearance.

But yeah this is the first expansion where I died constantly from mobs while leveling. It didn't help that my main leveling buddy was a mage with mirror image.

We'd be fighting a pack of mobs, doing OK but losing health since I have some of them on me and some are on him. He pops mirrors, drops all aggro so the mobs turn around and SPLAT dead warrior on the ground.

That was when we had the 'warriors are squishier than mages' talk I mentioned back on page 3.

In terms of alts, I have a Feral at 110 and an Enhancement Shaman at 103. Let's just say that Feral with Resto affinity is smooth sailing for leveling (unless I get 3+ mobs on me with Feral's lack of AoE) and Enhancement is significantly less tanky than in previous iterations but still can spam heals on themselves like mad and has at least two damage reduction CDs.
10/03/2016 02:07 PMPosted by Shirt
I've been forced to go protection for world quests half the time because I'm dying even when I don't have aggro.

It's getting old.
My alts aren't having even close to the same "issues" I had as Fury too while leveling.

Oh yeah, of course ... Same here ... I'm almost exclusively Prot so far because of how annoying Fury is.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy prot, but I also really enjoy Fury and would be nice if it didn't feel so terrible to play.

EDIT: for the record, Leveling as Fury wasn't half bad. I was able to keep up with quest mobs as they scaled with my level. It wasn't until I hit level cap did all of a sudden it felt like my HP just melted any time I faced more than one or two mobs.
I just recently acquired the legendary mannoroth bracers, and funnily enough, this is what Fury base healing should be like. Fury's enrage damage increase is instantly balanced out by these bracers that are also available to Prot/Arms.

Blizzard, look at these bracers and effective they heal and synergize with rage gen, this should be what Fury heals around baseline. That's part of the fury class fantasy no?
10/03/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Anbhogo
I just recently acquired the legendary mannoroth bracers, and funnily enough, this is what Fury base healing should be like. Fury's enrage damage increase is instantly balanced out by these bracers that are also available to Prot/Arms.

Blizzard, look at these bracers and effective they heal and synergize with rage gen, this should be what Fury heals around baseline. That's part of the fury class fantasy no?


I've been hoping I get these but the ridiculous RNG on these legendaries are making me give up hope I'll get them anytime in the next few months because of my playstyle choices. (BGs over dungeons.)

As I keep saying with the people who spam fighter chow in regards to our issues:
External sources should not be "fixing" broken spec mechanics.

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