Arms PVP

Warrior
Basically, when are we getting fixed? It's absolute nonsense. There's literally not a single reason right now or in 7.1 according to patch notes to play Arms in PvP. In BGs, we are trained unless we have a pocket healer. Blizzard has removed 5s. The only place we can be slightly good is 3s, and I can't really think of why you would have a comp with an Arms warrior when a DH, Ret, or Rogue (especially a DH) does the same damage (if not ever so slightly less). 2s, a warrior pops up on your gladius before the match, find me another class you would make the kill target.

I'm not saying MoP second wind is what we need. But when literally every other melee class has some sort of self heal that doesn't rely on getting a KB (execute isn't as viable as it once was), and does either equal or slightly less damage, what gives? When will this be taken care of?

Thanks
ty
Blizzard says warriors only get to pvp with healers. That's why they broke fury.
I felt exactly the same way until I unlocked most of the honor tree. Don't get me wrong I still get wailed at times and have to try play a little more roguishly to not be seen but our kill Potential is equal with the best. And honestly.. That happens to any class when you have 3+ people training you (except palliespallies, may they forever be a scrub spec).

I can actually see blizzards vision for the class, and as much as I would prefer us to have more survivability and self heals our toolkit is that of 'go down guns blazing' unless you can group up.

I would anticipate if/when rebalancing occurs a damage/burst nerf and hopefully some minor reworking of our defensive/mobility mechanics.
Well, in 3v3s where it really matters, defensive stance is an amazing talent to have for survivability, as you'll have a healer. But that's not what you're !@#$%ing about.

In BGs, again you'll have a healer in competitive play, and defensive stance will make you the least likely target to focus. In random BGs, that's always a ^-*!fest.

So, in reality here, you're not complaining about BGs. You're complaining about 2s or duels. Now, in 2v2s if you're being trained, you have some of the best tools to make training you a nightmare. Bladestorm makes you immune to all forms of CC, you get a spell reflection, heroic leap, and intercept. All of which can help you avoid being trained. You also have the ability to not dismount at the start of the arena. If everyone is so hell bent on attacking you, kite them while your teammate kills them. If they want to poly your teammate, intercept+reflect.

in 1v1s, it's a different story. But I don't think anyone plays the game for duels anyways, and if you do, re-roll your class. There's no reason to rebalance the entire game around duels when the vast majority of players don't care about duels.
09/20/2016 02:29 AMPosted by Elimänning
Basically, when are we getting fixed? It's absolute nonsense. There's literally not a single reason right now or in 7.1 according to patch notes to play Arms in PvP. In BGs, we are trained unless we have a pocket healer. Blizzard has removed 5s. The only place we can be slightly good is 3s, and I can't really think of why you would have a comp with an Arms warrior when a DH, Ret, or Rogue (especially a DH) does the same damage (if not ever so slightly less). 2s, a warrior pops up on your gladius before the match, find me another class you would make the kill target.

I'm not saying MoP second wind is what we need. But when literally every other melee class has some sort of self heal that doesn't rely on getting a KB (execute isn't as viable as it once was), and does either equal or slightly less damage, what gives? When will this be taken care of?

Thanks


I agree with you warriors should not have to relay on healers to be with them questing or in bgs to survive. Every other class has so much better heals and honestly if you can kill a warrior then your just bad, warrior is by far the easiest class to kill in game. Now if his questing with a healer might be different but then again I've seen my rogue buddy sap cc warrior blow up healer and come back to mop up warrior. Most warriors I see run around questing and bging are protection because they have amazing self defense and great damage. Hopefully they fix warriors which is honestly easy gives us 2nd wind or make victory rush not have to require killing something. Until then I'll be on my Demon Hunter who does same damage great defense cool downs and great sustain. People complain about warrior 2nd wind a move that only activated when warrior was 35% health not like rogues who can vanish and heal from any percentage of health and be at full again to reopen on you. Even dks can heal for 15% anytime they want and has move that reduces all damage by 90% and does nice damage.
09/20/2016 05:41 AMPosted by Hellstein
I felt exactly the same way until I unlocked most of the honor tree.

Partly this. Some talents are too good and not having access to them means you're playing half a spec.

What we're finding, is that we have a tough time putting out the damage necessary to offset our lack of self healing. As stated in a previous thread, EVERYONE benefits from having a healer present. But we need one moreso because we cannot chew through other class's defensives before we run out of health ourselves.

When I finally got Echo Slam my playstyle changed and I was able to get ahead of incoming damage against some classes.

I know this is about PVP but I saw a mention of questing, when does ANY warrior die while questing?
I die questing when I get jumped by a DH! Then I switch to prot and shove my shield in his nether region. :)
when does ANY warrior die while questing?


He was talking about getting ganked. :)

09/20/2016 06:45 AMPosted by Spártàn
09/20/2016 02:29 AMPosted by Elimänning
Basically, when are we getting fixed? It's absolute nonsense. There's literally not a single reason right now or in 7.1 according to patch notes to play Arms in PvP. In BGs, we are trained unless we have a pocket healer. Blizzard has removed 5s. The only place we can be slightly good is 3s, and I can't really think of why you would have a comp with an Arms warrior when a DH, Ret, or Rogue (especially a DH) does the same damage (if not ever so slightly less). 2s, a warrior pops up on your gladius before the match, find me another class you would make the kill target.

I'm not saying MoP second wind is what we need. But when literally every other melee class has some sort of self heal that doesn't rely on getting a KB (execute isn't as viable as it once was), and does either equal or slightly less damage, what gives? When will this be taken care of?

Thanks


I agree with you warriors should not have to relay on healers to be with them questing or in bgs to survive. Every other class has so much better heals and honestly if you can kill a warrior then your just bad, warrior is by far the easiest class to kill in game. Now if his questing with a healer might be different but then again I've seen my rogue buddy sap cc warrior blow up healer and come back to mop up warrior. Most warriors I see run around questing and bging are protection because they have amazing self defense and great damage. Hopefully they fix warriors which is honestly easy gives us 2nd wind or make victory rush not have to require killing something. Until then I'll be on my Demon Hunter who does same damage great defense cool downs and great sustain. People complain about warrior 2nd wind a move that only activated when warrior was 35% health not like rogues who can vanish and heal from any percentage of health and be at full again to reopen on you. Even dks can heal for 15% anytime they want and has move that reduces all damage by 90% and does nice damage.


Just for the record, both the warrior and healer must have been afk, bots, or brand new players to the game. Berserker rage breaks sap, so if a warrior sits an 8secomd sap when he has 2ways of breaking it, he has NO idea about how to even play the game,.. Generally people with group with others of similar skills so...

Anyhow, keliza makes a good point, realistically duels and 2s are where we fall down. We just struggle to survive the Zerg rush that is the current meta for unrated pvp.

I think the worst indicator is that when I see a group of players I usually think.. Fkn warrior, you poor bastard... he'll be easy to kill, and yolo in to the group, knowing his toolkit to survive is nonexistent. The only other people I prioritise over them is DH, Rogue and hunter.. In That order, cause I hate how annoying their classes have been to play against...
This warrior holds a grudge. :)
09/20/2016 07:06 AMPosted by Boris
I know this is about PVP but I saw a mention of questing, when does ANY warrior die while questing?


I die because I like to shout RAWR and heroic leap into a huge pack of npcs, then charge a second pack before returning to the first for whirlwind goodness. The key to making this style of play work is, of course, leading off by shouting RAWR!!!!!
Kind of screwed over arms for mobility.
Fury warriors have cheat death, and 2 leaps?
they put the Double time in the same row as Stormbolt and Shockwave.
I don't see the point of this when now as an arms warrior I can be kited and CC'd very easily the moment I try to do any form of damage.
Yes in a 1v1 the situation would be completely different!
But in a 3v3 I'm going to be forced to play defensive since I'm a glass cannon.
We can compete with DH, Rets and DKs BUT ONLY WHEN WE HAVE CDS. We don't have the survivability to go on (depending on comp).
As Arms you have Charge and leap, you can talent into double time or a stun.

Bladestorm breaks Snares and roots (create a cancel macro to cancel it when needed), So does Avatar... there's two root/snare breaks.

You can pick up spell reflect if you want to give up rage machine. Execute row also lets you suppress snares/increase MS by 15% or exe has a 15yd range and you charge to them. Hamstring is also OFF the global cooldown.

You also have intimidating shout, it's on a 1.5 min cooldown to either interrupt, catch up, or burn time on someones cooldown/cc.

Arms mobility took a hit, but it's far from trash when you combine everything with charge/leap. You're not helpless, use your toolkits effectively.
09/20/2016 02:29 AMPosted by Elimänning
2s, a warrior pops up on your gladius before the match, find me another class you would make the kill target.


Enh shaman, and hunter of any kind.

Enh shaman has less passive mitigation than a warrior in plate + def stance, and one defensive cooldown. Can't even frost shock/earthbind kite melee trains anymore.

Hunters lost alot of their kiting ability now that their melee spec is the sole user of traps, conc shot is a 6 second duration with a 5 second CD, making it impossible for them to kite more than one person at a time, and only has one defensive CD outside of trying to run away.

Just saying, there are other classes/specs that go down easier, but I too would like warriors to be enjoyable in casual pvp.
The killing blow required healing is fricking garbage condition since day 1...

Ive constantly had to tell teamates in arena to let me have the killing blow or i was gonna die
Please don't tell me to use my toolkit effectively. I'm not trying to be rude, but look at my character. I have played at high levels in arena, RBGs, and even in raids during BC/wrath. I know how to play my class and how to use my "tool kit". I also have 50 honor level, and all that has changed is my damage isn't a complete joke like it was before hitting 50 honor level. Absolutely nothing has changed for survivability.

There is absolutely no excusable reason why every other melee class in this game does the same damage we do, and can self heal themselves and has world's better survivabilit.

Last time I checked 3s was not the entire game. Especially in Legion, we have to go out in the world to complete quests, engage with players of the other faction, and do regular BGs for our characters. I'm not asking to be able to win duels against other classes. I'm asking to be viable in 2s, and viable in BGs without a healer, and not get smoked in world PvP by any class regardless of gear. Is that seriously too much? Especially when there are now only 3 rated PVP brackets, we are only slightly good in one of them.. give me a break. They took out 5s.
09/20/2016 06:45 AMPosted by Spártàn
09/20/2016 02:29 AMPosted by Elimänning
Basically, when are we getting fixed? It's absolute nonsense. There's literally not a single reason right now or in 7.1 according to patch notes to play Arms in PvP. In BGs, we are trained unless we have a pocket healer. Blizzard has removed 5s. The only place we can be slightly good is 3s, and I can't really think of why you would have a comp with an Arms warrior when a DH, Ret, or Rogue (especially a DH) does the same damage (if not ever so slightly less). 2s, a warrior pops up on your gladius before the match, find me another class you would make the kill target.

I'm not saying MoP second wind is what we need. But when literally every other melee class has some sort of self heal that doesn't rely on getting a KB (execute isn't as viable as it once was), and does either equal or slightly less damage, what gives? When will this be taken care of?

Thanks


I agree with you warriors should not have to relay on healers to be with them questing or in bgs to survive. Every other class has so much better heals and honestly if you can kill a warrior then your just bad, warrior is by far the easiest class to kill in game. Now if his questing with a healer might be different but then again I've seen my rogue buddy sap cc warrior blow up healer and come back to mop up warrior. Most warriors I see run around questing and bging are protection because they have amazing self defense and great damage. Hopefully they fix warriors which is honestly easy gives us 2nd wind or make victory rush not have to require killing something. Until then I'll be on my Demon Hunter who does same damage great defense cool downs and great sustain. People complain about warrior 2nd wind a move that only activated when warrior was 35% health not like rogues who can vanish and heal from any percentage of health and be at full again to reopen on you. Even dks can heal for 15% anytime they want and has move that reduces all damage by 90% and does nice damage.


Any class kills warrior?

Any class?

Get blown up often by Elemental Shaman, do you?
Ele can heal. That being said, they're also broken right now for competitive PvP as are warriors (arms and fury). I'll be re writing this thread in the PTR forum later on and will link it here for fellow warriors to join.
09/20/2016 04:22 PMPosted by Elimänning
Ele can heal. That being said, they're also broken right now for competitive PvP as are warriors (arms and fury). I'll be re writing this thread in the PTR forum later on and will link it here for fellow warriors to join.


Every single class forum...with the possible exception of Rogues....says they are the worst class in PvP right now. Like those actual words.

Since only one forum can be correct, I'm sure its warriors...a melee class...and all the others are wrong.
Spell casters have their own problems. I never said Warriors are the only broken class in competitive PvP. This is a warrior related thread. There are a lot of broken classes right now, but we are the most broken melee class in competitive PvP. You can run with a Ret effectively in all brackets, you can run with a DH EXTREMELY effectively in all brackets, and the same can be said for all other melee classes. Better yet, those classes can go out on their own and complete World PVP quests and do more than just "do 3s".
I like arms right now in PvP, but Arms its empty on the defensive CD side of things and cookie cutter for talents if you want to be effective. You HAVE to spec Def Stance if you want to survive anything. We got the shaft in that department compared to every other class out there with walls and self heals. If we can get an enraged regen or proc chance for a victory rush it would be a lot more solid in fights without heroic leaping away and hoping there is a healer. Or the common situation it seems in RBGs and Arenas with training the Warr making heals pop CDs because of the squish. Kind of lame a plate class doesn't have a "tanky" feel when a warlock or Resto Druid has a bubble that eats everything...

I feel sorry for fury players. They really screwed that spec up. It's like a baby beating drums wildly while nothing great happens except people going "Awww how cute...."

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