Legion is alt friendly

General Discussion
I have 3 110s currently, working on 4 and maybe 5.

All three on in the 845+ ilvl range and all three are only slightly behind my friends with only one class in terms of AP. (This is including the fact that I'm putting AP points into multiple specs on each character.) Having artifact knowledge work orders on 3 separate toons is a huge benefit here. The areas where I'm much further behind are Suramar, nightfallen rep, and order hall resources, but I honestly couldn't care less about those things when I have 3 characters equivalent geared to players with 1 character. Also those things will steadily increase anyways with emissaries.

My daily maintenance is emissaries, WQs with valuable drops (gear/significant AP), and slowly running specific mythics that drop gear I need on each character as opposed to all of them. I'm also gathering artifact knowledge on all and can do the order hall campaign timegates simultaneously.

I work 40+ hours a week, get more than enough social time at work (I'm a snowboard instructor in the winter and a ski lift operator for mountain bikes in the summer), so yes I have a totally fulfilling life outside of the game as well.

Hopefully this clears things up for forum complainer skeptics and people who aren't sure about whether or not to make an alt.

TLDR: Legion is alt friendly, don't listen to the critics. You only suffer in Suramar, slightly on artifact traits, and on order hall progression via resources.
09/30/2016 10:46 AMPosted by Di
I have 3 110s currently, working on 4 and maybe 5.
Do you think you could surpass, match or even come close to one person in terms of dps (same class) that mained one class who put in an equal amount of time as you did on several?
How many of your alts have a legendary, third artifact slot, max professions(3 starred recipes), how far along are their artifacts power wise?

Just because you can level to max and gear doesn't mean you're not leagues behind. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Compare this to WoD or MoP for example, pick out the differences and tell which one is more alt friendly at the beginning?

Edit: This isn't rhetorical. I'd like an answer or for you to at least defend your points.
09/30/2016 10:56 AMPosted by Évè
09/30/2016 10:46 AMPosted by Di
I have 3 110s currently, working on 4 and maybe 5.
Do you think you could surpass, match or even come close to one person in terms of dps (same class) that mained one class who put in an equal amount of time as you did on several?


When wasn't this the case? In all the other expacs you had BIS and 'finished' your main 30 days in? What version of the game allowed you to stay maxed out on your main while allowing plenty of time to max out alts as well (in the beginning)? Once the catch-up mechanics come on, as always, it will get even easier. WoD and MoP both had lots of things to do at max level that you would have to neglect to run an army of alts too.
delete
Catch up mechanics would be AK / Rep server wide.
09/30/2016 11:59 AMPosted by Sniperstrike
Call us back when you get married and have kids.


To be fair, they really can't balance a game around people being super busy. They could reduce some of the annoying things on alts like Suramar rep, but they can't just remove gear grind because some people don't have time to do it on their alts.
Until there is a catch up feature for alts, have fun grinding all the rep to exalted on them all over again....especially suramar.
I think the only thing that alts need to focus on is getting to 110, getting Arcane Knowledge on the go, and having enough order resources to go around.

Not as bad as so many whine and cry about.
I have two characters at 110 and my Druid just hit 840. Both have Arcway and Court of Stars unlocked.

I have a third at 103 that I was mining and leveling on but I haven't had much chance to play him lately. I do want to get the upgraded Doomhammer and lightning axe offhand so maybe I'll spend some time on him soon.

09/30/2016 12:05 PMPosted by Soulfiction
Until there is a catch up feature for alts, have fun grinding all the rep to exalted on them all over again....especially suramar.


There isn't that much incentive to get exalted with every faction on an alt unless it's blocking a key recipe or something. All the toys, pets, etc. I can collect just fine on my reputation character.

09/30/2016 11:59 AMPosted by Sniperstrike
Call us back when you get married and have kids.


What a strange tangent to take this thread.

"I procreated a couple times and must maintain my relationships with my mate and spawn! Make alts easier please!"
09/30/2016 12:02 PMPosted by Jaladrin
09/30/2016 11:59 AMPosted by Sniperstrike
Call us back when you get married and have kids.


To be fair, they really can't balance a game around people being super busy. They could reduce some of the annoying things on alts like Suramar rep, but they can't just remove gear grind because some people don't have time to do it on their alts.


You just don't get it. Being able to infinitely power your character through grinding was NOT possible in ANY expansion I can think of. Yes, you could grind gear, but that had limits. M+ has infinite loot. On top of that, AP is a disguised spec leveling system that unlocks significant DPS increases. The system has no caps, so the more time you invest, the more powerful your spec becomes. Taking time away from your main spec and/or char decreases your potential DPS. For people who raid normals or heroics that's not a big deal at all, but if you like to be challenged by tough content (mythics) that means this expansion you could be facing a significant disadvantage that has been granted purely through a massive investment of time.

For example, here is the current list of AP leaders worldwide:
http://artifactpower.info

The world leaders are at 28 Traits, leader is at 1,159,256 AP earned.
The 50th place member of my class is at 567,147 enough for 25 Traits.
I'm at 276,270... no clue what place that would be but I just got my 23rd Trait.
The average for my class from the dataset they have is 156,838 which gets 20 Traits.

This is how that simulates if you leave gear completely the same and just add or subtract traits for my spec:
28 Traits (world leaders) - 227,737
25 Traits (50th highest from my class) - 213,347
23 Traits (Me) - 211,896
20 Traits (class avg on site) - 205,656

Now, I know a difference for me of 16k DPS doesn't seem like much, but when you multiply that advantage across a whole raid, it really starts to add up. Also the healers heal better and the tanks will take less damage. Not to mention that the more you play, the better your chance of a legendary and better gear in general from the infinite gear chasm of M+ dungeons. It's also a multiplacative effect in that the advantage in Traits, and thus DPS, allows you to farm AP faster and get further ahead.

My point is this... time spent grinding AP is rewarded with no limits in this expansion. You have never, in my memory, been able to gain significant DPS increases simply through time spent farming dungeons, WQs, or whatever else people are doing. Time is DPS in this expansion... and while I agree that raiding Mythics should be more than just logging in to raid, this grindfest they have set loose is a whole NEW animal.

If you are a casual player though, none of this would bother you. But for Mythic raiders, it's going to start to feel real salty if some groups continue to overpower content with a combination of skill and massive time investment outside of actually killing raid bosses while others, who can't possibly farm that much AP, struggle. My question is this... who does Blizz tune Mythics for? The 1 million+ AP crowd? The 500k crowd? 250K? The average 160ker? I think it's an interesting question for someone who is participating in content where I could spend hours upon hours wiping to bosses that might be tuned for people who simply have more free time than our raid does. What amount of time investment, as a raid group, do we need so that the content will not be overtuned for us?
09/30/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Drudru
When wasn't this the case?

I had several mains over WoD. At the beginning it was as simple as just gearing until you hit a certain item level. Tanaan allowed me to level 8 characters almost ENTIRELY ON PET BATTLE EXPERIENCE and then simply gear them up with 650-695 Baleful BoA crap I was flooded with from playing the game and tanking/healing dungeons.
Literally did next to NOTHING on these toons over WoD beyond pet battles
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/%C3%8Bve/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Ev%C3%AA/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/%C3%8Av%C3%AA/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/%C3%88v%C3%A9/simple
Any of these could become my main if I had wanted to over WoD.
My monk was another(110 now), and the other three I used to farm invasions so I vendored their Baleful.)
Didn't have a problem until Shipyards and the Legendary ring and that was literally the last piece of content we had until pre-patch/Legion.

Granted, Legion hasn't been around enough for catch up mechanics to be in place yet, but you can't honestly tell me Legion is currently alt friendly unless you haven't realized how you've gimped yourself.

(Edit: "gimped" is a strong word. Just trying to voice how your alts do in fact have repercussions.)
09/30/2016 10:56 AMPosted by Évè
09/30/2016 10:46 AMPosted by Di
I have 3 110s currently, working on 4 and maybe 5.
Do you think you could surpass, match or even come close to one person in terms of dps (same class) that mained one class who put in an equal amount of time as you did on several?
How many of your alts have a legendary, third artifact slot, max professions(3 starred recipes), how far along are their artifacts power wise?

Just because you can level to max and gear doesn't mean you're not leagues behind. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Compare this to WoD or MoP for example, pick out the differences and tell which one is more alt friendly at the beginning?

Edit: This isn't rhetorical. I'd like an answer or for you to at least defend your points.


Could you ever do that in any xpac?
09/30/2016 02:17 PMPosted by Spy
Could you ever do that in any xpac?

See above.
From reading the post from the "alt-unfriendly" crowd it looks to me like they just want a bunch of free stuff.

Which I find odd because as near as I can tell Classic and BC was WoW at its best.. how alt-friendly was Classic and BC anyway?
09/30/2016 10:56 AMPosted by Évè
09/30/2016 10:46 AMPosted by Di
I have 3 110s currently, working on 4 and maybe 5.
Do you think you could surpass, match or even come close to one person in terms of dps (same class) that mained one class who put in an equal amount of time as you did on several?
How many of your alts have a legendary, third artifact slot, max professions(3 starred recipes), how far along are their artifacts power wise?

Just because you can level to max and gear doesn't mean you're not leagues behind. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Compare this to WoD or MoP for example, pick out the differences and tell which one is more alt friendly at the beginning?

Edit: This isn't rhetorical. I'd like an answer or for you to at least defend your points.


Is he supposed to? I mean alts are not meant to be mains.
I'm doing pretty well with two... I am lacking Artifact Power overall... But since I'm lazy and AP farming is boring I doubt limiting myself to one character would change that.
Is he supposed to? I mean alts are not meant to be mains.


Read more carefully... he was saying that someone who spends 100% of their time on one char and one spec will be stronger than someone who splits that same amount of time. That wasn't the case in previous expansions as long as that amount of time was enough to kill any bosses with relevant loot for the main, etc. AP is infinite so to max your spec you need to spend 100% of your time playing it.
09/30/2016 02:27 PMPosted by Damiona
From reading the post from the "alt-unfriendly" crowd it looks to me like they just want a bunch of free stuff.

Which I find odd because as near as I can tell Classic and BC was WoW at its best.. how alt-friendly was Classic and BC anyway?


Maybe they never played wow back then.

I have one main and alts. My main is the one that has the achievs, the rep, the good stuff, etc.

I have never tried to make my alts as good as my main.

And yeah..I remember classic. Rep grinding wasn't fun and was not sharable.
Timbermaw and Winterspring come to mind. There was no BOA, no shared titles, no shared mounts.

WOD made it too easy. Legion has brought back some of the challenge.
09/30/2016 02:33 PMPosted by Shämwów
Is he supposed to? I mean alts are not meant to be mains.


Read more carefully... he was saying that someone who spends 100% of their time on one char and one spec will be stronger than someone who splits that same amount of time. That wasn't the case in previous expansions as long as that amount of time was enough to kill any bosses with relevant loot for the main, etc. AP is infinite so to max your spec you need to spend 100% of your time playing it.


First off, AP isn't infinite, there is an end. Second, the law of averages would disagree with your original point as well. Someone spending "enough time" to kill bosses is never going to match someone spending as much time as possible killing bosses barring an extraordinary lucky streak.

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