Spriest placement on recent Warcraft logs

Priest
http://i.imgur.com/hN6U6kc.png

#6 overall, and within spitting distance of the highest-damage mage spec. Historically, this has not lasted long. But it's pretty darn good as of right now...

Edit: apologies for giving the news! I thought people would be happy spriests were doing much better. I guess not?
There are quite a few people that dislike the StM playstyle that won't care what you have to say because it seems to be the only viable level 100 talent right now for raids.

There are also quite a few people that aren't worried too much about Shadow's representation in raids, but more worried about their representation in the other half of end-game content right now: Mythic+ dungeons. That crowd is also likely to downvote you, because your data is irrelevant to their preferred content.

Developer comments suggest that we'll see a rework for StM in a more comprehensive patch, which threatens Shadow priest's overall viability depending on what replaces it or what other tweaks we see to the level 100 row of talents. People afraid of what might happen don't care what is happening now.

It's all a mess. I think we can agree right now Shadow is working on raid bosses and has some places where they shine and others where they don't. Most of the places where they're working depend heavily on StM.
Posters on blizzard forums don't want spriests to do well because they can't put out these numbers themselves. They want logs that show spriests at the bottom to try and get more buffs.

Although it is upsetting that low-skill !@#$ like MM and fire are still putting out such huge numbers, shadow is still in a decent spot.
09/28/2016 11:41 AMPosted by Taak
Most of the places where they're working depend heavily on StM.


Pretty much, any outlier spriest in a raid more likely that not is running Surrender to Madness.

Just to put into perspective myself and another priest sit at the bottom of the dps meter by a lot for most of the fight and then we come right back up into top 5 once Surrender to Madness is used assuming we timed it right (other priest times it better than me generally).
09/28/2016 11:44 AMPosted by Holyahraam
Posters on blizzard forums don't want spriests to do well because they can't put out these numbers themselves. They want logs that show spriests at the bottom to try and get more buffs.

Although it is upsetting that low-skill !@#$ like MM and fire are still putting out such huge numbers, shadow is still in a decent spot.


Some people are good at complaining, some are good at gaming.
You won't even place in the 50th or maybe even 40th percentile without S2M.

Right now we're fine (again, because of ONE talent) but when the S2M rework or nerf hits we're going to need some pretty big buffs. The flat 10% damage buff from shadow form will help, but all our numbers will need tweaking to keep us competitive. Remember, without S2M we average out at about 180k between our low points of ramp up and high points of void form. That is MARGINALLY Last. Like, lower than frost mages (post buff, but I'm pretty sure we'd be behind them pre-buff too.)
09/28/2016 11:44 AMPosted by Holyahraam
Posters on blizzard forums don't want spriests to do well because they can't put out these numbers themselves. They want logs that show spriests at the bottom to try and get more buffs.

Although it is upsetting that low-skill !@#$ like MM and fire are still putting out such huge numbers, shadow is still in a decent spot.


Granted there are some people like that but I think there are plenty of people who aren't and you are over-generalizing.

I want our spec not to rely on 1 talent that is only really usable in raids. Also, it would be nice to be able to get into M+.
09/28/2016 12:58 PMPosted by Burritoguy
No. Just no. We want our spec not to rely on 1 talent that is only really usable in raids. Also, it would be nice to be able to get into M+.


Pretty sure you just want shadow to be literally the best spec by miles at everything before you'll be happy.
09/28/2016 01:02 PMPosted by Amideus
09/28/2016 12:58 PMPosted by Burritoguy
No. Just no. We want our spec not to rely on 1 talent that is only really usable in raids. Also, it would be nice to be able to get into M+.


Pretty sure you just want shadow to be literally the best spec by miles at everything before you'll be happy.


Lol. What? Hahaha. So let me get this straight. Because I want to be able to go to M+ and not be forced into a clearly broken lvl 100 talent in raids, I want shadow to be the best at everything? Hahaha.
09/28/2016 10:46 AMPosted by Poetess
Edit: apologies for giving the news! I thought people would be happy spriests were doing much better. I guess not?


These forums are toxic. Any positivity or intelligent discussion will be punished.
09/28/2016 01:06 PMPosted by Burritoguy
Lol. What? Hahaha. So let me get this straight. Because I want to be able to go to M+ and not be forced into a clearly broken lvl 100 talent in raids, I want shadow to be the best at everything? Hahaha.


No, because of the fact you spent the last week being the doomsday naysayer of the forums, threatening to unsub, and generally being a negative person you won't be happy.

If you couldn't handle some hotfixes with any sense of rationality and civil-mindedness you're unlucky to ever really be happy with the performance of the spec unless it's on top at all levels.

Besides that, you haven't just wanted M+ viability and better 100 talents, you've also claimed we are middle-bottom tier of the raid dps and not very good overall.
09/28/2016 01:06 PMPosted by Burritoguy
09/28/2016 01:02 PMPosted by Amideus
...

Pretty sure you just want shadow to be literally the best spec by miles at everything before you'll be happy.


Lol. What? Hahaha. So let me get this straight. Because I want to be able to go to M+ and not be forced into a clearly broken lvl 100 talent in raids, I want shadow to be the best at everything? Hahaha.


It's Amideus, just ignore him. Most of us do.
09/28/2016 02:36 PMPosted by Nuitara
09/28/2016 01:06 PMPosted by Burritoguy
...

Lol. What? Hahaha. So let me get this straight. Because I want to be able to go to M+ and not be forced into a clearly broken lvl 100 talent in raids, I want shadow to be the best at everything? Hahaha.


It's Amideus, just ignore him. Most of us do.


Yeah you're right I shouldn't let flies bother me.
09/28/2016 02:39 PMPosted by Burritoguy
Yeah you're right I shouldn't let flies bother me.


Didn't you unsub, why are you still here?
09/28/2016 02:20 PMPosted by Amideus
09/28/2016 01:06 PMPosted by Burritoguy
Lol. What? Hahaha. So let me get this straight. Because I want to be able to go to M+ and not be forced into a clearly broken lvl 100 talent in raids, I want shadow to be the best at everything? Hahaha.


No, because of the fact you spent the last week being the doomsday naysayer of the forums, threatening to unsub, and generally being a negative person you won't be happy.

If you couldn't handle some hotfixes with any sense of rationality and civil-mindedness you're unlucky to ever really be happy with the performance of the spec unless it's on top at all levels.

Besides that, you haven't just wanted M+ viability and better 100 talents, you've also claimed we are middle-bottom tier of the raid dps and not very good overall.

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

I guess simcraft is just a forum whiner too, eh? Not like they have data or anything.

Let's hear more about how shadow "feels" like it does great nubers, that'll fix it!

He's right. And Taak is right. Without STM, we aren't doing too hot.
Can't we all just agree that we're doing fine on fights that allow us to use S2M, but not doing so hot where we can't? The recent buffs were definitely welcomed, but we're still struggling a lot in mythics and any encounter where we can't use S2M. Where's the issue? We all know the answer, It's S2M. Blizzard has to be so careful buffing our damage outside of it, because it would put us in a very powerful spot. I don't want Blizzard to rework S2M, I want them to just scrap it. We will never be balanced for raids AND mythics as long as it exists. Unless they can come up with some other level 100 talent, but again, it can't outshine S2M or people will cry.
09/28/2016 11:44 AMPosted by Holyahraam
Posters on blizzard forums don't want spriests to do well because they can't put out these numbers themselves. They want logs that show spriests at the bottom to try and get more buffs.

[/quote]

The thing is even when you can manage to pull decent numbers as shadow it feels like it costs multitudes of times more work to do as well as other classes. I originally liked that shadow required more thought than other classes...that's an aspect I like of DOT classes, but the amount of thought and planning required to do well now seems a bit excessive. When I play it now and think of how I would feel if I were a completely new player just trying to learn shadow...I'd seriously give up. If I was a new player and started out as shadow is currently now, I may stop playing altogether before bothering to reroll if my first impression of the game was that every class was going to be like this.
09/28/2016 04:06 PMPosted by Breathkeeper
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

I guess simcraft is just a forum whiner too, eh? Not like they have data or anything.

Let's hear more about how shadow "feels" like it does great nubers, that'll fix it!

He's right. And Taak is right. Without STM, we aren't doing too hot.


Simcraft has never and will never be a reliable or accurate depiction of dps, and no, they don't have actual data. They have a self written system that performs their own specific rotation assuming a perfect single target fight with no movement. It doesn't account for bugs in their code (Like shadow being dead for upwards of 1 minute in their sims when using Surrender) or for the varied mechanics that fights have.

According to simcraft feral druids, demo locks, and all three rogue specs should be top dps. Please go show me on warcraftlogs where that is true on ANY fight. In practice the arms warriors are crushing the meters and I have never seen ret perform well on logs. DO yourself a favor and just never go to simcraft. Ever. It's never going to be accurate or make you better as a player.

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