This is why people are afraid of doing PuGs

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10/07/2016 08:35 AMPosted by Byniri
10/07/2016 08:33 AMPosted by Discouri
I would have kicked the mage


I was about to right before they left.


Well, there's your problem then.

You had a tank that wasn't quite ready for your dungeon; that was a problem, yes. However, you also had an abrasive DPS made of nothing but pure venom, and you sat there and let them roll right over your group.

The responsibility to eject the mage once they reached critical salt levels was on you.
I guess I've been lucky so far and haven't run into anything nearly as bad as that. The worst I've had is on the end boss of the Warden dungeon with a new tank who kept failing and refused to read the instructions when we asked him to (nicely at first but one of the members got pretty heated at his laziness). Outside of that I've been really lucky.
10/07/2016 08:37 AMPosted by Crazeld
Time for another one of my unpopular opinions. I don't believe most players ultimately like "skilled" content. As in the holy trinity tank/heal/dps in raids and ultra hard mythics.

I know that sounds really odd...but think about it. Most people just want to come home at the end of the night and slaughter some baddies and maybe find some phat loots. Most don't want to research strategies for mythics much less raiding. For pete's sake we have to research and be precise in our everyday lives. Why the heck would people want to do that in their off-hours entertainment?

I'm not saying there's not a certain subsection of players who like that more "hardcore" kind of stuff...but minus an extreme minority of working folk, the kind of people who tend to like that stuff are college students and unemployed folks...those with the kind of time to dedicate to that kind of stuff. To those people, such activities give meaning to their life in some small way. The rest of us already have meaning and sure as heck don't need that kind of meaning in our video games.

This is why I hold firm in the belief that raiding and hardcore mythics are not what the average player truly wants....and wow continues to hold itself back by pandering to the raiding/hardcore mythic minority.


OR here is another unpopular opinion, poeple like you are just lazy. I hold a full time job, have a family to take care of and STILL when i get to sit down to play I want something that makes for a challenge if I wanted to turn off my brain I would just watch tv or netflix or something
10/07/2016 08:25 AMPosted by Byniri
led to the Mage yelling at them to go


And that's where you drop the mage. Would have saved all that drama.
10/07/2016 11:26 AMPosted by Finrael
OR here is another unpopular opinion, poeple like you are just lazy. I hold a full time job, have a family to take care of and STILL when i get to sit down to play I want something that makes for a challenge if I wanted to turn off my brain I would just watch tv or netflix or something

That doesn't make people who disagree with you "lazy", it just means they have different gaming priorities than you.

When I sit down to the game, I want to have fun. If I wanted another true challenge, I'd go form another startup company -- that's not what I game for.
10/07/2016 08:37 AMPosted by Crazeld

This is why I hold firm in the belief that raiding and hardcore mythics are not what the average player truly wants....and wow continues to hold itself back by pandering to the raiding/hardcore mythic minority.


This is how I feel too and Blizz keeps making the mistake in thinking that the reason their organized group content isn't more popular is because it's just not accessible enough.

Fact is, this kind of content is only really enjoyable when done with friends or guild mates which the majority of players don't have. Even if the scenario in the OP rarely happens it only takes one bad experience to scare someone away from pugging high level group content again.

Personally, what I love about MMOs and WoW is the grind. I like dailies, rep grinds, leveling, farming honor/valor points for gear, basically any content that rewards time spent.

I like to log in, turn my mind off, and spend time grinding whatever content that will lead me to advancing my character even if it takes forever, I doubt I'm the only one.
I don't get what you really want.


To start, they could put in LFG versions of these instances. Learning by doing easy -> normal -> hard is tried and true. Having only one difficulty adds zero value to the content or the game. Multiple difficulties adds value.

They could implement a commendation system or personal reputation system that would make people's behavior matter. They can't design behavior, but they can make it matter. Good behavior should be rewarded, and bad behavior should be punished.

In other ways, Blizzard has been doing really well. LFR exists to justify the expense of designing content for the top 5% of players. That's a good thing because it gives most people what they want somewhere on the difficulty spectrum. Same with class design. Not too long ago, class guides would tell people who had a hard time with the optimal build to spec that way anyway and get good. Now guides are telling people to use the 90% build if they're better at it.

There needs to be a hardcore endgame to show everyone what the game and its players are capable of. But broadening the difficulty spectrum is a good thing as well.

I'm sure there are other ways they can make group content less painful for people who currently are averse to it. Perhaps they could implement a "learning mode" that would be normal/LFR equivalent, but would be specifically designed to get better players to group with far less skilled players. Much like the learning event thread that recently got stickied in GD, but officially supported in game.

If this were done in conjunction with a personal rep, with a certain prerequisite personal rep to lead such groups, this could be a very valuable tool that might get players into groups who otherwise avoid them at any cost. The assurance that there will be one nice player in the group could make all the difference.
Honestly, next time you have that sort of toxicity going on, give the toxic player MAYBE one warning, and then boot them, or just boot with no warning. You shouldn't have given him a chance to continue spewing insults.

I'd rather work with a completely inexperienced tank than put up with somebody being abusive like that.
Granted i have not done mythic content yet but I have used the group finder tool many times in the last couple expansions.

I have never ever seen anyone tell someone else to kill themselves or anything even close to that. Hell, im surprised when people actually talk in the instance.

Im not saying what happened to you isnt true, but i just havent encountered it yet and hope i never do.
So you kicked a tank from your group... based on his performance on the first 2-3 pulls in Mythic Arcway.

Literally the 3 hardest pulls of the dungeon are those 3. The breaking down slimes ? Nothing else in the instance comes close to those pulls.

If the tank successfully navigated those 3 pulls, he was A-OK to tank. You remove the loud mouth mage, replace him, and finish the dungeon with the DH tank.
10/07/2016 08:48 AMPosted by Lamark
OP, your example is precisely why I don't do mythics. I really have no interest in paying a sub to be verbally abused in a game I come home to relax to. I play the game to have fun, to forget about my RL issues and problems...not add to them.


But you can do mythics with your friends and or guild. They usually wont be jerks!
10/07/2016 11:29 AMPosted by Douglas
10/07/2016 11:26 AMPosted by Finrael
OR here is another unpopular opinion, poeple like you are just lazy. I hold a full time job, have a family to take care of and STILL when i get to sit down to play I want something that makes for a challenge if I wanted to turn off my brain I would just watch tv or netflix or something

That doesn't make people who disagree with you "lazy", it just means they have different gaming priorities than you.

When I sit down to the game, I want to have fun. If I wanted another true challenge, I'd go form another startup company -- that's not what I game for.


It's not a problem nor does it make them lazy unless they show up in group content and refuse to learn. Note the refuse to learn part there. I would never kick someone showing up and saying "hey never done this before". Yes some groups would. In fact the first time I ever healed on my Shammy she was in her 30's and I told the group I had never healed on this class. Two DPS instantly drop just on the presumption that I would suck even though I had other healers at that time. And that was years ago, it's not like the community was always a bright shining beacon in the past.

At the end of the day the vast majority of the people who play just play to have fun. Learning groups can be great, but ones like the OP are a nightmare to someone who is truly learning when a group member is allowed to abuse them.
You know there are vast amounts of games that have no multiplayer content at all right? Maybe you need to look at those.

Why do people play a game specifically designed to be a multiplayer experience, and then do nothing but complain about their bad experiences whine to turn it into a single player game?

The bad experiences suck, but that's the price of admission in any Gd multplayer game. That is why there is a disclaimer on the box that reads "online interactions are not rated by the Esrb".


....................................

and are you forgetting that until THIS expac, no-one needed to enter instanced content just to gain flying at some point, professions were not reliant in part on dungeons, a few recipes locked behind a boss sure, but not general recipe via ranking where by outside trainers send you running about and end by handing you dungeon runs.

This may be an MMORPG but that does NOT equate to must enter instanced content to be social, one can interact while out questing, can have that social interaction via guilds, can even be questing solo in a party with other party member across the map but they are still able to chat thus socialize.

To be social does not imply must be with others, socializing comes in various ways but Blizzard appears to be trying to push more group related content forgetting that much of the game is designed to be done solo with the option to enter group style content, nothing wrong with either option but there are potential problems when a company tries to push players into entering 1 style.

edit - I have always had that multi player experience even when not entering content that has other players in it, I may sometimes find few out in that world but there are others in that same world sharing that world with me hence I do exp the multi player aspect
10/07/2016 11:42 AMPosted by Melinjem
and are you forgetting that until THIS expac, no-one needed to enter instanced content just to gain flying at some point, professions were not reliant in part on dungeons, a few recipes locked behind a boss sure, but not general recipe via ranking where by outside trainers send you running about and end by handing you dungeon runs.


You can do those dungeons on Normal through LFD, this thread is about Mythic dungeons.

Off-topic QQ is off-topic. Go run the dungeon on normal if you really care about your profession, but don't pollute threads that want to discuss Mythic dungeons and Group Finder with that stuff.
10/07/2016 10:19 AMPosted by Crazeld
10/07/2016 09:57 AMPosted by Libriai
The saddest part of this kind of thought chain in my opinion is that Blizzard has put tools in game to assist with learning encounters. Not to mention the reams of videos as short guides out there now for every dungeon/raid.

If you want to blame something blame it on people's unwillingness to take five minutes to learn how to do something or to help other people learn. The shifting attitude that everything must be accessible to everyone immediately with as little effort as possible along with the shaming of those who can't do it instantly.


I'm certainly not stating that everything should be accessible to anyone with minimal effort. I'm simply stating that most people don't want to spend time having to read exhaustive strategy guides to do dungeons otherwise get demeaned by others because they don't know all the silly mechanics.

It's my opinion that people generally aren't interested in mechanics. The gate is difficulty in mobs that get easier over time as people find better gear. The difficulty in itself creates the challenge, and earning gear over time to defeat that challenge is the reward. That's what tends to be meaningful for most players, and that's not surprising as these things are supposed to be entertainment. Not second jobs or some sort or amateur e-sports.

Yes, people with careers raid and mythic++, however they really are a very small minority of the playerbase. All I'm saying is wow would be even more successful if they were to focus on what the vast majority of the playerbase really wants.


They do, the game is more casual friendly now then it's ever been..What the hell are you even talking about? You can gear pretty good without even stepping foot in a group dungeon...I don't really think you know what the vast majority of the player base wants.
Honestly, I kick at the signs of multiple complaints from one person like that. It's okay to give constructive criticism but to not let it go and constant complaining...there are plenty of other dps who are willing to be more helpful.

I did see that they left before the kick, but imo he would've been the first to go.
Off-topic QQ is off-topic. Go run the dungeon on normal if you really care about your profession, but don't pollute threads that want to discuss Mythic dungeons and Group Finder with that stuff.


...........................

be it normal, lfd, heroic, mythic etc, a dungeon is a dungeon is a dungeon set to different difficulty, all still consist of 4 other players and up so not so off topic after all more so when the same be encountered in ANY difficulty level.
Op, you stated it was a learning group. That mage should have been kicked with the first insult to anyone in the group.

You let that mage stay too long.
You should have kicked the mage. The tank is trying to learn, at least. Mouthy DPS with an inflated ego are dime a dozen.

Myself, I got with a one chance system when I lead; if someome mouths off, I tell them that it's not helpful, politely. It works sometimes. If they keep it up afterwards, they get the boot pretty much immediately, and I don't give a damn if they topped the meters.
And this is why I haven't stepped into a mythic dungeon yet on my monk. However, the game is really starting to show me that I need to do them (quest for mythic eye, etc)
Turbolink#11949 if you want to help me out.

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