The Death of Casual Play

General Discussion
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10/08/2016 09:25 PMPosted by Thesaltyone
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A day has 24 hours in it. Most people work about 8-10 hours per day and sleep between 6-8 hours each night which totals 14-18 hours. This leaves 6-10 hours of "free time" for people to do whatever they want including playing this game. I dont see how you can find most people playing 4-5 hours a day odd when that fits in with a pretty standard schedule for most people.

If anything I find it odd that you cant allocate 4-5 hours a day for gaming unless you work an abnormal amount of hours and are some kind of social butterfly where you go out every day. Even for people with children playing for like 2-3 hours or so each day should be doable. I literally dont see how you can logically conclude that people who play wow for 4-5 hours a day must be unemployed and living on welfare.


I guess my priorites are different, I work 8-14 a day, cook dinner for my family, spend time hanging with my kids before I get maybe one-ish hour a day for free time if work does not call me for support at night, which happens.
Also there is anime, tv, movies to watch, books to read and many other great games to play.

Then an mmo isn't for you. If you can't find time to play the game, why complain?
I played yesterday morning for a couple hours, had RL stuff to do, then came back & played a bit more later yesterday afternoon.

Today I haven't felt like playing, but I might log on in a bit & do some dungeons with my lowbies, or maybe I'll work on my new level 100 for a bit before bed. I figure my new level 100 will be 110 in, say, 3 weeks or so, maybe? I dunno, probably more like 3 months :)

I'm pretty casual, I'd say, & I don't feel like anything is "dead" just yet. Maybe it is at level cap? That seems pretty standard for MMOs, especially long-running ones like this or EQ2. I guess then it's all about how you personally define "casual" & "progress," eh?
Sorry, but casual players love grinds.

If you are an active member of a guild and tackling organized group content then you are not a casual player. If you schedule you daily life around playing WoW than you are not a casual player, casual players play when they have nothing better to do outside the game and never feel like they HAVE to log in at any specific time of day or the week.

A casual player has no problem not logging in for a week or two, maybe even a month, that's what it means to be casual, WoW is never a priority in your day to day life.

That being said, having content you can do without the requirement of a guild, that you can log in at any random time and knock out and slowly work towards advancing your character is casual content.

Grinds are casual content.

I'm actually disapointed with the lack of grinds this expansion.

There's no honor point/valor badge gear grind, there's no legendary quest lfr grind, there's no worthwhile reputation grinds, there's just a bunch organized group content that I don't plan to do.

And now that I've got most of the best gear I can get from WQ I'm losing motivation to keep playing.
Legion isn't as difficult as older content was
10/08/2016 03:18 PMPosted by Shämwów
Blizzard should not design systems which reward players infinitely for unhealthy amounts of play time. I remember a time when Blizzard actually cared about the player base... that was a nice time.


MMORPG's have always been aimed at the people who have massive amounts of time. Rpg games are aimed at people with little time. Get the !@#$ over this bull%^-* that blizzard once upon a time cared about the player who played 5 hours a week.

No MMORPG creator wants their game to only be played for 5 hours a week.

Time excuse is so old.
10/09/2016 07:07 PMPosted by Leonhart
Sorry, but casual players love grinds.


Where do I even begin? That just makes no sense at all.
I be wishin' people would stop makin' dese posts. I be playin' a bit each day what wid a wife, a son, and a full time job. I be a 10 year veteran of dis game, but a lot be changin' since I started. I don't be havin' da time ta dedicate dat I used to, but I still be enjoyin' da game as a casual player. No, everyting won't be comin' me way as fast as other people, but I don't mind da time it takes. I be playin' da game ta have fun, not ta be at da pinnacle of current WoW achievement for little ta no /played.

Dis expansion a'int killin' da game for casuals. Stop speakin' for eveyone.
10/08/2016 05:15 PMPosted by Ayanama

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Nope.


You have a 851 ilevel and have done a single Mythic.
Without Warforge/Titanforge none of your gear would be higher than 840 (which is from pvp).

Proof is in the pudding.

No idea how you have two 860 pieces though. They don't have any difficulty tags on them and you've done no normal raids.


World bosses
10/08/2016 03:04 PMPosted by Sneekypete
Now for the negative. What I see happening is a lot of casual players are quitting...my daughter is one of them. They are quitting because everything is a time killer and they are not willing to dedicate the time required to complete things. Crafting in general is a very good example, and so is tying Suramar rep (with it's extremely slow grind) and having to do a Raid at the end, to Loremaster/Pathfinder/Flying someday. Being locked to one spec (unless you are willing to grind Artifact Power for another) is also an example.


How can people upvote this piece of trash??? You don't want to do some rep quests, a single LFR kill, or wait until your Artifact Knowledge increases by doing literally nothing but waiting? What can be more "casual" than this??? You don't even have to do a single Mythic Dungeon or Normal Raid to get loremaster, the quests to Court and Arcway are optional, and the Artifact quest that can only be completed in Normal Raid or higher only rewards you with a new skin, cosmetic, nothing that increases your character power. Some professions need to do Mythic dungeons, true, but there where always BoP recipes on Raids too, and noone never said nothing about that.
10/09/2016 05:37 AMPosted by Spinster
I used to be able to log in, play for two hours doing a variety of activities, and always feel I moved forward in a significant way. I would make a little gold, get a few meaninful mats, my item level would go up and I could kill things more easily. My casual game play worked.

Now I feel like two hours of play gets me nothing. Rewards feel unrewarding. I know that my progress will be blocked by requirements to do mythic dungeons or regular raiding.

It is a design choice. Not one I understand.


It's a design choice made to prolong the lifespan of dungeon content, something which suffered in the last expansion.

In WoD, Blizzard took out the traditional incentives for running dungeons over and over again, like valor points, and replaced them with rewards that appealed to a different audience (like transmog armor sets that were available through your armory/war mill). When too many players were checking out of dungeons, valor points made an unexpected comeback in the last WoD content patch to try to draw some of them back in.

In Legion, the perpetual incentive to run dungeon content is because it will destroy your ability to proceed through other largely unrelated content.
I remember back in WotLK when there were actually multiple avenues to gear up (this was when imo that this "balance" between hardcore and casual was best achieved) you could grind through reps, dungeons, or even crafting to a relatively reasonable level to prepare for raids. Some of my favorite times in-game were grinding through dungeons to gear out guildies.

However to even get to DO some of said dungeons and/or raids, now they are gated behind mind-numbing grinds, time-gates, or facebook games. I am all for stretching out relevant content as long as there is enough of said content to stay interesting, but the time-gating and necessary grinds are ANYTHING but fun, and anything but interesting...and personally unbearable to suffer through on multiple characters.

It is starting to make a lot of end-game content feel very artificial and stale.
10/08/2016 03:20 PMPosted by Boltskill
10/08/2016 03:04 PMPosted by Sneekypete
They are quitting because everything is a time killer and they are not willing to dedicate the time required to complete things.


That's not what casual play is, I'm a casual player and I don't mind working towards something over time. What that is is "gimme naooooo".


You just don't get it. It's not that they don't want to work for it it is just the amount of work it unreasonable and unrewarding for the reward.

The game should be about playing the game. Not jumping through a ton of hoops so you can eventually play the game. Especially if you play a reasonable amount of time (and 20 hours a week is not reasonable, that is a second job). This is where legion is screwed up, it encourages and rewards unhealthy amounts of gameplay.

It double downs on the failure by rewarding groups that choose players that are overgeared over appropriately geared people. It encourages and rewards the this. I know you are saying start your own groups; but why join an appropriately geared persons group when you can join an over geared persons group? It is a broken design.
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I guess my priorites are different, I work 8-14 a day, cook dinner for my family, spend time hanging with my kids before I get maybe one-ish hour a day for free time if work does not call me for support at night, which happens.
Also there is anime, tv, movies to watch, books to read and many other great games to play.

Then an mmo isn't for you. If you can't find time to play the game, why complain?


lmao what a horrible logic to use
10/09/2016 05:30 AMPosted by Nâughtynurse
This is an MMO...MMOs take time to accomplish things. If you don't have the time or desire to do things that take time...don't play an MMO. This is more of a new generation of people 'wanting things right now". No one wants to work for anything, they want everything given to them with little to no effort, and as fast as possible.

The 'casuals' have had exactly that for the past few expansions, and the game is finally going back into it's genre of gameplay. If the 'casual' player does not want to put any effort into the game, then they SHOULD stop playing and stop demanding that Blizzard makes the eaxact game that fits their playstyle/play times. They can't make everyone happy.

You can;t have it all people...either you get fast content that is completed in a week or 2...or you get longer lasting content with little to no content droughts. This right here is almost exactly what people have been asking for. Longer lasting, more challenging content.

I work 40+hours week, have a family, and still have MORE than enough time to play this game...including the grind. I like it, it makes me WANT to log in everyday. Bottom line, if you don't have the time for what an MMO is, then don't play an MMO, but regardless, stop demanding/throwing a fit at Blizzard to make the game that fits YOUR life.

I have news for you, it's the hardcore players who have been racing through content to get to their end game of raiding, not "casuals" you so detest.

Different "people" have asked for different things. How is it so hard for you to understand that not everybody wants to play exactly the same way as you do?

Seriously, who died and made you boss lady? Stop demanding/throwing a fit at Blizzard trying to get content removed or tuned so YOU are the only one who will enjoy it.
For casual play, there just really isn't anything worth investing my time in.

I had to drop out of my guilds raid team due to school/work, so I decided to take the "casual" route. I haven't logged in for days, and don't see myself logging in for awhile. What there is to do casually is just not very interesting.

It's obvious that Blizz took time to create content for their more dedicated players. I have no qualms with that.
Isn't this expansion pretty great for the casual? Agreed, some quests require dungeons / raids to be done. But LFR is super easy and it will all be released soon enough. Dungeons (unless you are doing high Mythic+) are fairly easy so long as you have the gear required. And getting gear is super easy now. You don't even have to raid to get really sweet gear which is pretty awesome. If you've got a solid set of gear you can run quick +2 / +3 Mythics and get some really nice loot.

I don't like a lot of the time gated stuff, but I consider myself a hardcore player and want things done right now. I'd imagine for a casual it's more like set it then forget it. And with the Legion app, it's easy as heck to do your class hall stuff because you can do it even when you aren't at home. Rep grinds have always been grindy and I'd love to see you accumulate rep faster but it's one of those things that you can eventually get over time. You don't NEED it right NOW. I wish they'd bring back rep grinding through tabards but it's really easy to do. Probably too easy.

I really like the state of the game right now. There are things I like and dislike but I find it has quite a nice balance. I would definitely like to see some changes but I don't think there has ever been a time where I haven't wanted to see changed.

So, as for people quitting. That's really unfortunate. Legion seems overwhelming but I'd encourage them to take it one step at a time. There's no need to rush for casual players. And if they really want something sooner, they've gotta put in the time for it...like everyone else.
10/08/2016 03:42 PMPosted by Razdek
10/08/2016 03:33 PMPosted by Emeldavî
I'm fairly certain that what you're seeing is people's perspective on the current systems, not what the systems themselves are actually meant to be.

Take Suramar rep as an example of a "bad grind" in this expansion. With withered training and a handful of what amount to daily quests, you reach exalted in a couple weeks. This is actually faster then a lot of previous quest-related reputations like say.. Ogri'la or Golden Lotus.

Artifact power is not meant to be a grind, but a steady increase in the amount of character power you have over the expansion. Is it possible to grind it NOW? Yes. That is not the intent. Big artifact traits are more in line with stop points for legendary chains in previous expansions I feel. Get your second gold trait? That's a similar point to say the legendary meta-gem in MoP.

Please.. enlighten me on what is actually "unfriendly" content to casual players and not something that just has the perception of being unfriendly.


The problem with AP though is that serious progression has always relied on cookie cutter specs, BIS gear etc etc. I mean lets be realistic, pretty certain there is a website already that shows peoples weapon traits and AP spent etc. Ergo if you do not have a maxxed weapon you cannot progress. Artifact weapons was a great idea... but the AP grind is a killer. It should have been designed to be maxxed out by level 110 so there was no room for contention. Then they should have left it up to the relics to determine gear levels as they have.


The whole point of Artifacts was to give people something to work towards after they hit the cap. It was an additional layer of growth that people can work towards.

The whole point of Artifacts was to give people something to work towards after they hit the cap. It was an additional layer of grind to try to keep people subscribed.


FTFY
10/10/2016 03:14 PMPosted by Iamslox
Isn't this expansion pretty great for the casual? Agreed, some quests require dungeons / raids to be done. But LFR is super easy and it will all be released soon enough.

Not everyone wants to do LFR over and over and over again as their end game. I mean, I did in wod, but they were paying me to do it there.

Dungeons (unless you are doing high Mythic+) are fairly easy

You mean, aside from the fact that they are full of people who can't play well, don't know the dungeons, and only queued up because they were required to, right? That makes for a horrible dungeon experience.

so long as you have the gear required. And getting gear is super easy now. You don't even have to raid to get really sweet gear which is pretty awesome.

How "sweet"? I went for 2 weeks without getting a single upgrade from world quests on my <850 gear pieces, doing every 835+ quest that came up. And then stopped doing them, realizing there was nothing to be gained whatever.

If you've got a solid set of gear you can run quick +2 / +3 Mythics and get some really nice loot.

You mean if you have a guild to carry you or something? My gear is pretty good for a non-raider, but there is no way I can bring some of those groups to a successful finish.

And for casuals who have never done instances, that's a pretty steep prescription.

I don't like a lot of the time gated stuff, but I consider myself a hardcore player and want things done right now. I'd imagine for a casual it's more like set it then forget it. And with the Legion app, it's easy as heck to do your class hall stuff because you can do it even when you aren't at home.

It sounds like you think that tinkering with a spreadsheet instead of playing the game should be good enough for casuals, because...why?

Casuals play to get character progression according to their own definition of the term. What you are describing is the opposite of playing wow.

You don't need it now. You don't need it ever. You don't need to ever log in again. Isn't that kind of the logical next few steps from what you are suggesting?

I wish they'd bring back rep grinding through tabards but it's really easy to do. Probably too easy.

Too easy, eh?

So, as for people quitting. That's really unfortunate. Legion seems overwhelming but I'd encourage them to take it one step at a time. There's no need to rush for casual players. And if they really want something sooner, they've gotta put in the time for it...like everyone else.

Legion IS overwhelming. It is designed so that no matter how much you do, you will always feel it is never enough. And you can see yourself falling further behind no matter how much you do, and there are plenty of players right here in the forum glad to make a point of how they deserve more and you deserve much, much less.

The idea that a person should take a months-long rep grind (yeah, it's months long if you're not committing a lot of hours to it) "one step at a time" and slow it down much, much more is, well, makes no sense, given that is pretty much the only end goal we have been given.
10/08/2016 03:41 PMPosted by Pew
This is probably the most casual friendly expansion in the history of WoW.


Not even close!

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