Xera: "What would you have done differently?"

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Wait till we upload Xe'ra into Tyrande, because Elune wanted her to know she picked wrong. ;) I kid. The story is a bit funny at times, but there are some fair points that can be drawn if you look at the size and scope of the Legion's threat (and what forged the Legion).
It's one of the things that bothers me most about WoW lore recently when it comes to things like this. We need to destroy the Demons before they destroy everything, so ...we need to stoop to the same level to actually beat them?

Well, alright Xe'ra. But ...where exactly do we draw the line? At what point have we sacrificed so much that the universe may as well be given the proverbial bullet to the head (or literal I suppose, in this case) to spare it suffering from OUR actions?

Like ...seriously. I waited to see if Illidan's mana would regen. But nooope. You have only ONE choice. Snackrifice Moon Guard mages. YAY! ...sigh.

I mean, come on. I like Illidan, and I genuinely feel like the ywere trying to show the desperation of the situation, the unease Illidan felt at 'having' to go so far. ..and touy see, it worked. Once. Juuust once. Against that ONE Demon. BUt after that?

It should only ever have been an emergency power during a few scripted events where it's pretty freaking clear Illidan had no other choice. And even then ...ugh. I don't even know.

What really annoys me is that ultimately, thanks to meta-lore, everything we do may as well not matter in the long run. Why? Because we're all destined for oblivion and nothingness hee hee hee...!

Ugh. I'm a little salty. Sorry. Just ...how am I supposed to be invested in a story that, thanks to Lore, pretty clearly cannot be won, no matter who wins?

Badly thought out lore in places, poorly conveyed story in others. Sucks. At least the rest of Legion is pretty much 98.5% enjoyable. I don't even mind building artifacts any more, since I've been able to tell myself to just take it easy. I'm taking the MoP approach here, and slowing down. And it feels great.

Anyway ...yeah. Damn it, Illidan. I get you were in trouble but, that's an ASSLOAD of people to sacrifice just to boost yourself.

At least my Demon Hunters never sacrificed anyone who didn't volunteer. Hmph.
10/25/2016 05:48 PMPosted by Patchs
Like seriously he goes from "I will honor your sacrifice" right to "They should be happy I used them as mana fuel" in two seconds.


yeah that sounds like the consistency of blizzard's writing in 2016
Exactly, it was like there was no remorse after the act. He destroyed the lives of five Night Elves.

FIVE lives he snuffed out in an instant, and there was no remorse, just "Let Me Show You My Powah!"

And then next time, not even a response, just "schlurp!"

And at the end, "I need More Powah!"

"Big Gulp!"

Then when he's called out for being a monster for such a diabolical act, "How Dare You Question MY Judgement! You Are The Fool!"

He's a Zealot.
He has the mindset that He Is Always Right.
He has the mindset that the Ends Justify The Means.
10/26/2016 12:02 AMPosted by Smitenhealz
He has the mindset that the Ends Justify The Means.


That's very well the Horde's thought process and it's funny to see horde hating it. It's like Ji Firepaw blowing the ship out of the turtle and people backing him up more than the one who wanted to wait and think more, Aysa. No one liked waiting to try and think more answers as much as they liked just blowing the ship out of the booboo.
10/26/2016 12:18 AMPosted by Wrassin
10/26/2016 12:02 AMPosted by Smitenhealz
He has the mindset that the Ends Justify The Means.


That's very well the Horde's thought process and it's funny to see horde hating it. It's like Ji Firepaw blowing the ship out of the turtle and people backing him up more than the one who wanted to wait and think more, Aysa. No one liked waiting to try and think more answers as much as they liked just blowing the ship out of the booboo.


But wasn't the Horde under the leadership of a different kind of wackadoodle zealot when the whole blowing the ship out of the turtle thing went down?

I wish I could skip the Black Rook scenario. I just cannot get through it because UGH Xe'ra.
10/26/2016 12:38 AMPosted by Vanillan
But wasn't the Horde under the leadership of a different kind of wackadoodle zealot when the whole blowing the ship out of the turtle thing went down?


That's besides the point. It's not like Ji had any contact with Garrosh when he did that either. The pandaren starter zone is Blizz showing how toushi is very much Alliance and houjin is very much horde. The ends justify the means has been a horde thing for a long time now. Look at Sylvy, she's very much so the ends justify the means kind of gal. Only "key/important" characters of the horde dont act like so, such as Thrall. Without the ones that aim for more peace, the horde is for the ends justify the means.
I HAVE SACRIFICED MANY OTHER PEOPLE TO FIGHT THE LEGION

WHAT HAVE YOU SACRIFICED?!

Regard, Illidan.
Here's another funny tidbit that destroys ANY validity of the scenario.

"I must return to the portal to replenish my mana or siphon from my Moon Guard."

Standing by The Portals DO NOT Restore Mana! The only thing it replenishes is your health.

Since he has so many Moon Guard he could have simply RESTRICTED how much power he pulled before sending them away.

But he chose to take Everything from them.

Also, frankly, after seeing the first group get sucked up ... if I was a Moon Guard I'd be "You expect me to be fodder for that madman? F that!"
10/25/2016 11:04 PMPosted by Smitenhealz
When you throw morality out the window and have zero qualms about doing what "has to be done" ... what really separates you from the "bad guys"?

The ends justify the means. It's either sacrifice a few for the sake of many or everyone dies. Those were the only two choices. Illidan didn't take joy in sacrificing his people, but he did what he had to. Folks can downvote this like they did my previous post in this thread, but i'm right and you know it.
10/26/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Dendritus
10/25/2016 11:04 PMPosted by Smitenhealz
When you throw morality out the window and have zero qualms about doing what "has to be done" ... what really separates you from the "bad guys"?

The ends justify the means. It's either sacrifice a few for the sake of many or everyone dies. Those were the only two choices. Illidan didn't take joy in sacrificing his people, but he did what he had to. Folks can downvote this like they did my previous post in this thread, but i'm right and you know it.


The very first thing Illidan says after draining (and not killing!) the first group is that he can return to the portal to replenish his mana. So he had an available method to get mana from his Moonguard without killing them, or get mana from the portals, yet he chooses to do neither. By the end, he shows no remorse whatsoever, no sadness, no mourning for all the people he murdered. As far as he's concerned, their only purpose was to die for his glory.

This is Illidan in a nutshell: he has no patience and no respect for others. It's his way or no way, and if you have to die for the sake of his expedience, you should be happy that you added to his legend.
10/25/2016 04:35 PMPosted by Patchs
And if I had to do it, maybe I'd try not to be a humongous jerkwad about it afterwards.


That was the worst part, like tbh I thought it seemed justifiable but then he justified it in the !@#$%iest way possible.
10/25/2016 11:55 PMPosted by Ariiah
Like ...seriously. I waited to see if Illidan's mana would regen. But nooope. You have only ONE choice. Snackrifice Moon Guard mages. YAY! ...sigh.

Yep, I tried several times, even running back to the original portal because it kept telling me I could do that to regenerate my mana.

10/26/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Dendritus
Illidan didn't take joy in sacrificing his people, but he did what he had to.

I think the biggest problem is that he doesn't feel any sorrow for those he sacrificed either.

Also he did what he decided he had to. He didn't suggest they figure out a way to channel energy to him.

Someone mentioned the whole idea of leaving behind 100 men on a suicide mission to get 900 men out alive. I think that's an interesting comparison because true sacrifice is choosing to be one of those 100 men knowing it's likely to be suicide - not being a commander who is ready to sacrifice the first 100, then the next 100 if he's still in danger, then the next 100. Illidan wasn't really worried about saving that many people, just Tyrande. If he could have sucked power out of every other soldier there, not just his magic-channeling Moon Guard, do we really believe he'd have held back to save "900 men"?
10/25/2016 05:48 PMPosted by Patchs
Like seriously he goes from "I will honor your sacrifice" right to "They should be happy I used them as mana fuel" in two seconds.


Illidan doesn't handle being confronted with his actions very well
10/25/2016 10:05 PMPosted by Eithris
"what would you have done differently?"


remember that time we had a handful of mages wholesale slaughter the entire kirin tor to absorb their magic, so they could beat Arthas in ICC?

oh wait no that didn't happen because that is contrived as !@#$.
All that power and so called potential and Illidan never thought to work with his allies to channel a massive teleport spell and send the infernal into the ocean. All the bippity boppity boo nonsense sacrificing the Moon Guard over and over when he could have frozen time and shanked all the demons one by one.

All the enslavement and killing and overlord nonsense in Outland when he could have just straight up told people he found a way to strike at the Legion.

Illidan only has to sacrifice things because he lacks creativity and communication skills.
10/25/2016 09:41 PMPosted by Râlph
and there is no morality in war.


That's just blatantly not true, or are you trying to be an edgelord with that one. War is war yes but that doesn't mean everything and anything goes
A few other tidbits. He talked about the fall of the keep, but seemed more concerned about the fact that its fall would be the end of Tyrande. He didn't seem to give a fig about the keep itself, just that its fall would result in Tyrande dying soon.

Also notice his last comment, "I've learned all I can from you."

He was nothing more than a "tool", a "book to read and then discard"

Small comments he makes really says a lot about his character.
10/26/2016 12:02 AMPosted by Smitenhealz
Exactly, it was like there was no remorse after the act. He destroyed the lives of five Night Elves.

FIVE lives he snuffed out in an instant, and there was no remorse, just "Let Me Show You My Powah!"

And then next time, not even a response, just "schlurp!"

And at the end, "I need More Powah!"

"Big Gulp!"

Then when he's called out for being a monster for such a diabolical act, "How Dare You Question MY Judgement! You Are The Fool!"

He's a Zealot.
He has the mindset that He Is Always Right.
He has the mindset that the Ends Justify The Means.


The way he responded there and acted was him getting drunk on that power, at first I think I remember him being hesitant about doing it in some small way at least, but as it progressed he got less and less unwilling to do this to them
10/26/2016 03:49 PMPosted by Aureton
Illidan only has to sacrifice things because he lacks creativity and communication skills.


He constantly talks about how ONLY he has the power, only he has the foresight, only he has the knowledge.

In short, its all about his EGO.

Oh, and the golden eyes bit? I've seen a number of night elves in game with glowing golden eyes. So gee, that kind of chucks the destiny angle out the window.

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