Helya's the good guy.

General Discussion
I see the whole situation as, on the one hand we have a narcicistic douchebag in power whose moral conduct is questionable at best, and other the other hand we have a power play by a monster, who wasn't born a monster, but was twisted and became one. Come to think of it, they're both monsters in their own way.

Neither side has the moral high ground. It's two bad actors ducking it out. It just so happens that one side wants to capture, imprison, and torture us, while the other side is amused to use us as his mercenaries and is generally amused by our bloodthirst. We happened to bump into him first, and he had something we needed that we couldn't take. Y force, so we had to play his game.

So its not a good old good v. evil, it's bad actor v. bad actor, and we just happen to have a dog in the fight.

I, for one, would prefer to see Odyn brought to his knees in a final raid to take him down a couple notches, similar to how we defeated the Kalaxi in Siege after doing a bunch of work for their faction. A redemption story could make sense for Helya but it's a bit too cliche at this point. May as well leave her consigned to her purgatory - she's a better character that way anyway.

TL;DR: nobody's good here. What do we need to do to get the purple shinies?
10/21/2016 12:55 PMPosted by Valarjar
It's interesting to see that Blizzard created a complex situation here. I missed that.

Odyn did bad things,
Helya did bad things, but only because Odyn did bad things
But if we don't stop Helya, she'll continue, while Odyn is locked forever on his Halls of Valor.

My solution?

Kill both! LOK'TAR OGAR


...I'm forced to agree with the Orc, here.
Not to mention not only was she forced to do it against her will she was corrupted by the old gods. After that she is not of her right mind and she would be considered legally insane and not completely culpable for her actions.
10/21/2016 12:10 PMPosted by Amína
TL:DR Lore:

    Both titans.

    Odyn disagrees with making dragons and other such things to protect azeroth, so he takes a part of ulduar and makes it HoV.

    Odyn then tells the valarjar if they die in battle they'll live there.

    Nobody volunteers to become Valkyr because nobody wants to ferry souls for all time.

    Starts going around FORCING the Vrykul to become Valkyr

    Helya's like "um no that's !@#$ed up dude."

    Odyn sees her as a threat, breaks her body, twists her spirit into his slave to bring him souls.


I feel bad for the poor girl.


Odyn seems like a douche.

When does he become a raid boss for us to kill?
10/21/2016 01:14 PMPosted by Pouncey
Odyn seems like a douche.

When does he become a raid boss for us to kill?


Never because...

10/21/2016 12:28 PMPosted by Ershan
Yes he was cruel to her, but he didn't turn her into the monster she is. She became that way on her own.

She is running her own literal Hell where she tortures people for amusement, sends her kvaldir out to plunder, murder, and steal more souls to be tortured. She's certainly not good anymore. This is completely of her own volition and was not forced upon her in any way.


Heck yeah! Quoting myself! Go me!
10/21/2016 12:55 PMPosted by Valarjar
It's interesting to see that Blizzard created a complex situation here. I missed that.


That's not so much "complex" as everyone is being a a jackass. The most "complex" thing blizzard has ever done I'm sure was an accident. As it was played rater straight. "Oh arn't those humans evil for putting those orcs in camps. Big meany heads."
Odyn gives better loot so we kill Helyna simple.
10/21/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Mirson
10/21/2016 12:17 PMPosted by Choten
To be fair,

Odyn was right about dragons.


I mean... sort of.

Making an entire sub-race of dragons inherently evil was probably a bad idea if their purpose was to protect Azeroth.


Uh where are you getting the Idea that Black dragons were inherently evil? They're caretakers of the earth itself. The ground, the mountains, the caverns and the deeps.

When Deathwing became corrupted the first thing he did was corrupt those around him BY BEING. It wasn't a choice for any of them, they didn't just go become evil. Old god influence is insidious and it spreads like wildfire.

Neltharion was not evil at all, he was one of the great defenders of life before he was infected.
Agree. Every time I do HoV I /spit and /rude Odyn. I wish I could gut that manipulating titan puppet.
10/21/2016 01:18 PMPosted by Ershan
10/21/2016 01:14 PMPosted by Pouncey
Odyn seems like a douche.

When does he become a raid boss for us to kill?


Never because...

10/21/2016 12:28 PMPosted by Ershan
Yes he was cruel to her, but he didn't turn her into the monster she is. She became that way on her own.

She is running her own literal Hell where she tortures people for amusement, sends her kvaldir out to plunder, murder, and steal more souls to be tortured. She's certainly not good anymore. This is completely of her own volition and was not forced upon her in any way.


Heck yeah! Quoting myself! Go me!


Where exactly do people find this stuff out?

Because, I mean, I read quest text to learn about the story, and the stuff people say about Legion's story... I have no idea where they're getting a lot of it, because nothing I've seen in the game says anything like that.
Who cares what they've done?

Let's kill them all.
10/21/2016 01:30 PMPosted by Pouncey
Where exactly do people find this stuff out?

Because, I mean, I read quest text to learn about the story, and the stuff people say about Legion's story... I have no idea where they're getting a lot of it, because nothing I've seen in the game says anything like that.


WoW Chronicles mostly. The part about Helya sending out the kvaldir to do stuff is something you can find through quest text I think. A lot of lore doesn't show up in game or even on wowpedia sometimes. Wowpedia is the best place I know of for free accurate lore (as long as you ignore the RPG stuff). Its often paraphrased though. :/

https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Chronicle-BLIZZARD-ENTERTAINMENT/dp/1616558458

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/world-of-warcraft-blizzard-entertainment/1120913166

http://gear.blizzard.com/wow-chronicle-vol1
I wouldnt mind starting a new pantheon with Helya. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Better get Xe'ra's brother Wi'bu to fanboy all over Helya and tell us how she's really the hero no one gave a chance and the whole world put down. Tell us how it's all our fault and stuff.

Seriously, though, regardless of why she's the way she is, she's still a nasty piece of work and an active threat. Odyn is a bro and actually cares about Azeroth's survival.
10/21/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Mirson
I mean... sort of.

Making an entire sub-race of dragons inherently evil was probably a bad idea if their purpose was to protect Azeroth.


The black dragonflight was never meant to be inherently evil, they were corrupted.
Odyn's a pansy.

I don't even need to read any books to know that. I mean, he surrenders after losing only what? 5% of his HP? Most NPCs that surrender do so after losing being brought down to 5-50% of their hp.

And Odyn demands his followers fight to the death for him when he won't even follow the same standard? PANSY I say!
10/21/2016 12:16 PMPosted by Rachit
They dont know how to do lore without metzen.


Metzen was a writer for the book that detailed this lore. Great job talking out of your rear end, though.
10/21/2016 12:23 PMPosted by Averyx
and she's making deals with sylvy


That means she is doing good because Sylvanas is in the right.
Honestly kind of reminds me of the Medusa myth. Getting punished for no good reason that results in the character turning into a monster. Yeah, Odyn and Helya are based off Odin and Hel, but you can sprinkle some Greek myth in there too.
10/21/2016 12:55 PMPosted by Valarjar
It's interesting to see that Blizzard created a complex situation here. I missed that.

Odyn did bad things,
Helya did bad things, but only because Odyn did bad things
But if we don't stop Helya, she'll continue, while Odyn is locked forever on his Halls of Valor.

My solution?

Kill both! LOK'TAR OGAR


The problem is mostly that Blizzard doesn't act like Odyn is a borderline villain. He's written and treated in-game like some kind of wise warrior-god that can do no wrong, despite doing wrong several times.

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