Elementals just want dialogue

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EDIT - Thread hit cap, here's part two: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749717575

Blizzard,

It's no surprise that we are outraged that there are no tuning changes for Elemental coming in 7.1 from what we can see. We have given hundreds of pages of feedback in Alpha, Beta and in the Shaman forums and we have invested 100+ hours into our Artifact weapon. You said that you don't want anyone to feel like they've chosen the wrong spec. Here's your chance to put that statement to the test. We want some communication from your side. We want to know why we haven't received tuning in 7.1 and your logic behind not adjusting our numbers. Let's have a conversation.

1. There is so much information available to you, what are you seeing that makes you jump to the conclusion that Elemental is completely fine in its current state?

2. What is going on internally where the data is showing that our damage is where it needs to be?

3. Are you using the Stormkeeper change to justify no further buffs or tuning to our damage in 7.1? If so, why? We believe it is a net-zero damage increase.

From the outside, we are decent in Mythic+ dungeons but we are having issues in raids. We bring good AOE and the EQ knockdown is very useful. However, other classes bring the same, if not better, damage in Mythic+ with better survivability. These same classes are also outperforming Elemental in raids. Being viable in Mythic+ should not be a valid reason why Elemental is not receiving buffs in 7.1.

From the outside, the better Elementals are parsing in the 99th percentile for Elemental Shamans but are ending up 8-10th in damage done. To most of us playing your game, this seems a bit unreasonable. If we are parsing in the 99th percentile but that low on damage done, it is indicative of a weakness within the spec. A 50-60 percentile Fire Mage parse should never best a 99 percentile parse of any spec, let alone Elemental. But this is not the case, as we see many sub 80 percentile parses that are beating a 99 percentile parse for Elemental Shaman on most fights in EN.

For example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HfdFDXLv7kZTGJrV#fight=9&type=damage-done

4. Are public logging sites such as warcraftlogs something that you incorporate into your balancing processes? Do you take into account the aggregate data that warcraft logs collects? You can clearly see that Elemental is one of your underperforming specs when looking at aggregates across all difficulties. Here are some references that might be generalizing as they are total aggregates but they do outline the problem areas of your spec balance:

Mythic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#dataset=70
Heroic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#dataset=70&difficulty=4

You have given a lot of underperforming specs a bump such as Frost Mage and Frost DK. Elemental is competing with those specs for being underwhelming in terms of damage based on log aggregates taken over the past month. If you believe that Elemental is fine where it is, this means that the specs that were buffed will now outshine Elemental.

Communicate with us. Tell us why you chose to outline many changes for many specs and neglected to change anything meaningful except for Stormkeeper. Tell me why I feel like I chose the wrong spec and my 10 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes and 41 seconds should have been spent playing something else. It is absolutely disheartening to see the spec that I play get zero attention.

I'm not going to go into the good feedback we have given but I will post the two most relevant threads that the Elemental community feels outlines our issues and potential solutions. We don't expect you to implement these but we took the time to write feedback because we care about the spec. Read it, come up with ways tune Elemental and bring us to where we can let our own skill determine our place in the damage hierarchy of our respective raids rather than what spec we chose to play.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748956716
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749206703
Great post thank you Falcinz very well written expresses my frustration perfectly. I just want to hear from the devs why they think we are not deserving of a buff. Being good in 5 man content doesn't feel like a good reason to leave us alone to me since this game is and always will be about raiding. Just my two cents
By dialog do you mean being asked about ele shamans and response being about frost mages? I think blizzard has got that down pat.
Fully behind this, more than enough data from an extremely loyal and skilled player base to correct the short term issues and then make a roadmap for future reworks.
10/19/2016 08:47 AMPosted by Zerock
Great post thank you Falcinz very well written expresses my frustration perfectly. I just want to hear from the devs why they think we are not deserving of a buff. Being good in 5 man content doesn't feel like a good reason to leave us alone to me since this game is and always will be about raiding. Just my two cents

Like Zerock, the main reason I play this game is to do Mythic raiding. I generally don't have much free time to do Mythic+ dungeons to be okay with only being good in that situation.
Changing mains at this point in the game would require too much time that I don't have, and switching to Enhancement wouldn't work with my raid group since we simply have too many melee raiders.
10/19/2016 08:47 AMPosted by Zerock
I just want to hear from the devs why they think we are not deserving of a buff. Being good in 5 man content doesn't feel like a good reason to leave us alone to me since this game is and always will be about raiding.


Given the response to Outlaw rogues and Hunters over the past few days this seems like a reasonable request and one that I support. If we are 'OP we just don't know it' or 'fine if you give ele a try' then please show the community what we seem to be blind to. Please, enlighten us as to you vision for what ele shamans are suppose to be, because my idea of class fantasy is not to be the butt end of everyone else jokes.
I started a thread of a more general nature that actually was getting feedback direct from Watcher the Game Director:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749846886?page=13#post-256

But it capped. Even though Watcher had said he'd uncap it.

I've been asking for it to be opened again because it was the closest thing to a direct channel to the devs than we've ever had.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749727152#post-1
Do you know how utterly disgusting it is to play Ele in a melee meta??? PvP is atrocious and in raids we deal roughly 15-20% less damage then the top 5 dps.

Our first minute of every fight is skewed heavily because of fire elemental and when its gone we lose roughly 100,000 dps.
I'm one of those players that's parsing highly and not anywhere close to the top 5 on my raids dps meters. It is INCREDIBLY frustrating to be playing very well and to be beaten by a mediocre fire mage or a mediocre arms warrior. Whats even stopping me at this point from making my alt mage my main? I love the play style of elemental and I don't want to abandon this character, but if the current situation remains where elemental is absolutely ignored by the developers its going to happen.

It really is absurd that I might have just wasted 257 hours playing Elemental over the last two months.
10/19/2016 09:00 AMPosted by Kieya
I'm one of those players that's parsing highly and not anywhere close to the top 5 on my raids dps meters. It is INCREDIBLY frustrating to be playing very well and to be beaten by a mediocre fire mage or a mediocre arms warrior. Whats even stopping me at this point from making my alt mage my main? I love the play style of elemental and I don't want to abandon this character, but if the current situation remains where elemental is absolutely ignored by the developers its going to happen.


I don't think switching specs is the answer.

I'm not even sure that Blizzard isn't trying to get us to switch specs on purpose.

The REAL answer is to stop giving Blizzard money.

I for one am voting with my dollars.
I am so confused as to how we've gotten no response as to why the lack of changes has taken place.

I am so frustrated that the hours upon hours I've spent playing this game since launch are being effectively wasted.

And most of all, I'm frustrated that we've been actively snubbed in both threads, and during an interview.

Hopefully this post gets a response of some kind.
Great post Falc, I too value raiding mythic more than mythic plus. I've put in the time into this class and spec and would just appreciate a little feedback as to why we're consistently on the lower end of every other class and spec. There is just no way I'm going to waste the weeks spent on bettering this character and spec. It's very disheartening to love a class and spec, but never have to opportunity to even compete with some of the other classes that are soon to receive more buffs
Elemental Shaman were at their absolute best mechanically and numerically in 5.4, when they were upper-mid tier. A perfect spec, through and through.

Celestalon said that they were overpowered and they just didn't know it.

Since then, they have been gutted and neutered in every way imaginable.

I have no faith that things will change. At least Enhance and Resto have always been great.
Good post.

Its very unfortunate that the current philosophy doesn't emphasize communication between Blizzard and the community. Honestly, so much ill will could be avoided with simple forum posts stating why there are or aren't changes and what the intent for a given spec is.

Even if the response was meant to come across as 'Elemental is fine, we think its better than you do,' a little more supporting rationale would be great.
Thank you Falcinz for composing this post and expressing many of the frustrations that I have playing this spec. I love being a shaman, I love ranged dps, I love elemental. But I don't love feeling like I'm holding my guild back in raids. I don't need to be first, I just want to feel like I'm contributing at the same or similar level as my other ranged dps counterparts. Thanks Blizz for creating this spec in the first place and for making it so flavorful and fun. I don't want to switch. I look forward to hearing why I shouldn't! Thanks so much, and thanks to Falc and the other ele theorycrafters and advocates on the Shaman Discord. Cheers!
PLEASE BLIZ!!! talk to us!!!!!! this post is a perfect example of what needs to happen. we NEED to hear from you. I dont know how anyone can look at the numbers and think we are "fine". let us hear your side, or make the changes that need to be made. PLS!
Someone on the dev team is the #1 elemental shaman in the world who knows some kind of secret none of us know about, and in their internal raids is always the #1 dps by about 100k.

That's the only possible explanation.
I feel completely let down by Blizzard. We have given so much feedback, in appropriate formats, and even been recognized by the higher ups for doing so, but in return we get nothing.

If this was any other expansion, I would be rerolling. Unfortunately as it is, I've invested so much time and effort into Elemental, that I have no other classes that can even compete with the AP I've invested into my artifact weapon; time and effort which I'm quickly feeling I've wasted.

Blizzard, it's nice that Elemental is doing okay in Mythic+, however balancing us around a single aspect of the game which is not even viewed as the main progression of PvE, is not very enjoyable from our side of things.
It does feel disheartening, the change to Mythic Il'gynoth was to prevent "negative social pressure" in groups that can't one phase the heart section of the fight. To prevent stacking of certain classes. However, with the stigma of being an elemental shaman, there's plenty of negative social pressure even if I parse high and outplay players of any class. Most players will follow what the top dictates is best for their own needs, a classic case of not truly understanding why someone going for world first does what they do and pressuring people who will never see their raider's skin to be something they don't want to be.

My class fantasy is to have my efforts of communing with the elements be worth the effort, if I take the time and effort to try and be the best, I'd actually like to match up with the best of the others.
If there's some big L2P secret that Blizzard is in on I'd love to hear it. Really I mean I'm fine with re-gearing or learning a new rotation but everything I try seems to flop so please, feel free to clue me in.

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