Blizzard dropped the ball with the new Kara.

General Discussion
Kara was my first raid, my first true love, I ran it every week of Burning Crusade without fail and when a re-release was announced I was so excited to experience a reworked, and redesigned favorite raid of mine.

I was expecting a 10 man raid with some unique fights designed around having 7 DPS and 2-3 healers.

Legion so far has been fantastic, with some really cool 5 mans. Having a unique 10 man raid would have been so good. Some players really enjoy the 10 man raiding environment and with current raids being designed for upto 30 players on Normal and Heroic and Mythic's being designed around 20 players there really isn't any content for small raid teams.

Bringing 10 players to Emerald Nightmare actually makes it much harder, less healing cooldowns, less class utility spells.

I think Kara is going to get absorbed as "just another 5 man" and won't do the original Kara any justice, we already have 10 x 5 mans in Legion, why do we need another one.

I would have liked it to be turned somewhere between normal and heroic with a single difficulty.

TLDR; Blizzard should have made a 10 man raid, with fights designed for a small raid team, Kara is going to be forgotten as another 5 man.

Agree or Disagree. Discuss.
It's not even out yet.

Many players that have done the new kara 5 man on PTR all said they enjoyed the crap out of it.

Not everything is going to be loved or hated.
I disagree. I'm glad they're bringing it back at all even in this small fashion. In fact I think it's better for the health of the game. It lets us remember the old days without taking over the main PVE scene.

As a wise man once said, how can you move forward on life's path if you're always going back to where you were.
It would be cool to have a 5 to 10 flex raid dungeon for those that enjoy smaller content.
This isn't a typical 5-man dungeon. it's more like a 5-man raid. Also:

1. People have been asking for more dungeons for the past 2 expansions.
2. The idea of a 5-man style "raid" (i.e. BRD) has been asked for for years now.
The fun of Kara for me wasn't the 10 people or the fact that it was a raid; it was the super out of left field encounters like Chess, Netherspite, Opera, Shade of Aran, and even Illhoof which worked best with a Warlock 'tanking' the imps.

As long as they keep a lot of really oddball encounter design and awesome style elements I'll be happy.

Whether it's a mythic, regular 5-man, or raid is irrelevant.
I fully agree.
Nothing to discuss for it depends on how cool it is. You cannot judge it if you have not gone into it. Not trying to poop on your party but going full negative on something you haven't done yet is kinda pointless.
I'd prefer it as a 10M or 5 with mythic+. At this point the base 850 gear isn't an upgrade for a lot of players, I'll be running it for sure but I don't know how much longevity there is going to be as a regular 5 man other than farming rare things like the mount. I didn't PTR it so will see if that opinion stands after the patch.
10/25/2016 06:25 AMPosted by Eliniel
The fun of Kara for me wasn't the 10 people or the fact that it was a raid; it was the super out of left field encounters like Chess, Netherspite, Opera, Shade of Aran, and even Illhoof which worked best with a Warlock 'tanking' the imps.

As long as they keep a lot of really oddball encounter design and awesome style elements I'll be happy.

Whether it's a mythic, regular 5-man, or raid is irrelevant.


Well put! I have many fond memories of Kara, and I did enjoy the hell out of playing with 9 of my good RL friends back in that time, but the fun of that dungeon was the encounters (Opera anyone? Chess, Shade, Illhoof, all fun). I'm really looking forward to it, and in fact a handful of those same RL friends that I used to play the old Kara with are back now for Legion after many years away, simply to try this raid out. I think that's awesome, for obvious reasons, and I'm hoping that this Kara is as enjoyable as the last. I reserve my judgement until I'm able to experience it myself!
10/25/2016 06:11 AMPosted by Devilin
we already have 10 x 5 mans in Legion


Burning Crusade instances:

1. Blood Furnace
2. Shattered Halls
3. Hellfire Ramparts
4. Underbog
5. Slave Pens
6. Steamvaults
7. Auchenai Crypts
8. Sethekk Halls
9. Shadow Labrynth
10. Mana-tombs
11. Arcatraz
12. Botanica
13. Mechanar
14. Old Hilsbrad Foothills
15. Black Morass
16. Magister's Terrace

But 10 is too many.
It's a five man yes but it's a mini-raid. You still have to go through an attunement process and it is going to have 9 bosses on mythic only difficulty. This is something completely new. Kara was my first raid too and just having it become relevant to current content is exciting to me. Save your complaining for after you actually get in there and do it.
I love Kara an there should be more 5 man content, it is what the majority of the population. I believe large group raiding us like 1% of the population. Regardless it is the smaller part of the population. I am not knocking raiding I did it since the EQ days but times change and the games need to support more content all around.

Rock on!
I'm very much on-board with the idea of a 5-man raid. Bringing back the idea of a 5-man instance that is actually substantial instead of a 25-minute straight-line snoozefest pleases me greatly.

The theme of Legion, which it has done wonderfully in my opinion, is Make Dungeons Great Again.
Karazhan was a very mechanics heavy raid. And it was amazing because of it.

Sure, now you can just walk in and stomp the place, but even at 110, there is 1 encounter that doesn't change. The difficulty is exactly the same as it was at 70. The Chess game. Is it possible to solo? Of course it is! Is it easy to solo? If you know what you're doing. Is it fun? Why are you asking me? Go do it yourself!

It reminds me of original ZG in a lot of ways. In the original ZG you had to pay attention to the mechanics or you would die. Even a full group of level 70s in BC couldn't just zerg the place in spite of it being a level 60 raid.

If they can capture even a small fraction of the magic they had with the original Karazhan in this 5 man dungeon, I'll be more than happy.
10/25/2016 06:30 AMPosted by Sweetspring
I'd prefer it as a 10M or 5 with mythic+. At this point the base 850 gear isn't an upgrade for a lot of players, I'll be running it for sure but I don't know how much longevity there is going to be as a regular 5 man other than farming rare things like the mount. I didn't PTR it so will see if that opinion stands after the patch.


Gear drops from 855 up to 875, not including forges.
I disagree; please refrain from posting "I hate kara" posts until Kara is actually out.
10/25/2016 06:24 AMPosted by Greyvax
This isn't a typical 5-man dungeon. it's more like a 5-man raid. Also:

1. People have been asking for more dungeons for the past 2 expansions.
2. The idea of a 5-man style "raid" (i.e. BRD) has been asked for for years now.


The BRD-ness and memories of the original Kara are what have me excited. Maybe it will fail, but we will have to find that out.
10/25/2016 06:42 AMPosted by Izell
I'm very much on-board with the idea of a 5-man raid. Bringing back the idea of a 5-man instance that is actually substantial instead of a 25-minute straight-line snoozefest pleases me greatly.

The theme of Legion, which it has done wonderfully in my opinion, is Make Dungeons Great Again.


Confirmed Legion is Trump.

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