Class Fantasy and Pruning

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This is something I've never been able to understand. Yes, class fantasies are put in place to make each spec feel more unique. But why can't pruned abilities just instead be tweaked to match their respective spec's theme?

As an example, instead of hunter traps for bm, why not call in one of your beasts to stealth at a designated area ready to ambush, incapacitating/dealing damage to anybody that's nearby? Or instead of gorefiend's grasp for frost dk's, a howling torrent of cold that pulls people within reach towards a specific location?

Whether it's a lack of imagination, resource, or simply pure laziness, the fact of the matter is you're turning a lot of your demographic off with ability pruning. The main thrill for me and many other players (pve and pvp alike) is the management of several abilities at once. It gives a healthy sense of competition, whether you're looking to top healing/dps charts in pve or outplay other players in pvp. Whether it's simply an excuse to simplify the game even further to accommodate new and long time returning players, I'm sure they'd appreciate the game even more with the more dynamic and complex formula we've all grown to know and love.

Please, Blizzard. Give us our buttons back.
As a shaman I agree 100% with the OP.

Since vanilla wow the shaman totems have progressively been marginalised.

Shamans were all about our totems. We had heaps of them. Over the years they have been pruned under the guise that they werent performing a function etc or in the name of balancing the game

I feel that in the name of "balancing the game" a shaman is nothing more then a glorified caster/melee.

Take elemental. Totems what are totems? do they even exist. Nope they are just an elemental mage!!!

Enhancement. again totems what are those! we are warriors with a mana bar!

I even miss the quest lines to unlock the respective totem class's, fire earth water and wind.

Class immersion is a thing of the past and I think the game has suffered because of it!
Killed my love for hunters. Pruned WAY too hard.
Disliked and Downvoted (also downvoted those who agreed with the OP).

Classes are fine.
10/19/2016 04:07 PMPosted by Strudle
Classes are fine.


You and I must be playing different games lol
10/19/2016 04:10 PMPosted by Virus
10/19/2016 04:07 PMPosted by Strudle
Classes are fine.


You and I must be playing different games lol


Yes, even warlocks are fine. The whole warlock cry has been more of a L2P issue.

I do crazy amounts of dps on my affliction lock and it is extremely fun.
10/19/2016 04:11 PMPosted by Strudle
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You and I must be playing different games lol


Yes, even warlocks are fine. The whole warlock cry has been more of a L2P issue.

I do crazy amounts of dps on my affliction lock and it is extremely fun.


You are failing to understand the point of the post. We arent talking about the viability of damage. We are talking about class immersion

So the fact that you are just given your demons instead of doing a quest to unlock them. Feel a real attachment to your new commanded demons.

Or just learning the spell for your mount! when you use to have to collect items and do a dungeon to summon and tame the mount!

Stop talking about things you have zero understanding!

The removal of these fun and useful quests has diminished the enjoyment of class's in general
10/19/2016 04:11 PMPosted by Strudle
<span class="truncated">...</span>

You and I must be playing different games lol


Yes, even warlocks are fine. The whole warlock cry has been more of a L2P issue.

I do crazy amounts of dps on my affliction lock and it is extremely fun.

Yep, then why to the parses show otherwise? Aff. lock is not in a good place. I assume Brewmasters, both Frost, and Outlaw are all in a good spot as well?
10/19/2016 04:11 PMPosted by Strudle
I do crazy amounts of dps on my affliction lock


Not in mythic+ with equally geared and skilled players you're not.
I'd have rather they just changed the flavor on abilities between specs to "fit the class fantasy" instead of compartmentalizing them.

Except for mages, who for some reason all have Ice Barrier, Frost Nova, Ice Block...
10/19/2016 05:14 PMPosted by Patchs
I'd have rather they just changed the flavor on abilities between specs to "fit the class fantasy" instead of compartmentalizing them.

Except for mages, who for some reason all have Ice Barrier, Frost Nova, Ice Block...


It's not like Mages can become Pyromancers or anything... oh wait.

I always did find it amusing that their reason for removing Frostfire Bolt was that it made no sense while allowing those who specialize in fire magic to continue using ice spells.
"Class fantasy" is the biggest load of crap they ever came out with as an excuse to simplify the game.
Please make my Subtlety Rogue play like a Subtlety Rogue once again!

WotLK/Cata/MoP/WoD Subtlety were all AMAZING, please make it play more like those versions!

It needs Poisons, Gouge, Garrote, Preparation, Shiv, Smokebomb, Shadow Walk (glyphed!), Tricks of the Trade (with the old %dmg buff for your teammate!)... fun utility tools and CCs for a skillful and sneaky rogue playstyle instead of what it has been reduced to: merely spamming stuns & teleport ambushes AKA mongostrike & doing a dps rotation

Shadow Dance used to be the most dynamic and exciting ability in the game. It could be used for control or peeling, or for burst damage, or a little bit of both. Openers and Dance windows created moments of burst and encouraged a PvP playstyle of using hit and run tactics, playing like a sneaky rogue, controlling the match and setting up playmaking opportunities tactically for your teammates but also having the tools to setup opportunities for yourself, etc.

Now Dance is available constantly but feels way less exciting -- it didn't make the damage rotation better it just made Dance worse! Openers and Dances are way less bursty, we have way less tools for control & teamplay & resetting. And to exacerbate the problem, the core mechanics that once gave us incentive to use hit and run tactics and play like a sneaky Rogue (bursty Find Weakness windows from openers and 1min Dances) have now been replaced with mechanics that encourage maximizing uptime and tunnel visioning your dps rotation to maximize the number of finishers you can put out and reset Dances as quickly as possible via Deepening Shadows.

In short this pruning failed completely and I don't feel like I am even playing a WoW rogue anymore!! In PvP I just chase targets around doing my dps rotation with limited opportunities to do anything sneaky or roguelike or any kind of memorable playmaking & outplay potential!

Please make my Subtlety Rogue play like a Subtlety Rogue again in PvP, Blizzard! And the same for other classes as well... restore our pruned abilities and mechanics so that this game can be great, please!
Well, they sure ripped the guts out of the Hunter class kit.

Pruning? No. Butchery.
Before anyone spouts "muh lore" I'm going to refute you on that point.

Let's say you exists in the Warcraft universe, starting at Vanilla WoW. For whatever reason, you decide to become a warlock. So you start with (if I recall correctly) a dagger, a robe, shadow bolt, and demon skin. As you progress through the storyline, you decide to specialize in destruction. From now until you kill the Lich King you gain all these fancy abilities such as shadowburn, conflagrate, shadowfury, and chaos bolt while also further enhancing your fire spells. But you don't forget about your other spells that exist in your arsenal such as drain soul or shadowflame, because you're supposed to become a master warlock

So why does the prune even make sense in a lore perspective if you're supposed to eventually become one of the most powerful warlocks in the universe fated to wield the Scepter of Sargeras?
It's time for a button bloat.
10/19/2016 03:47 PMPosted by Sousukei
As a shaman I agree 100% with the OP.

Since vanilla wow the shaman totems have progressively been marginalised.

Shamans were all about our totems. We had heaps of them. Over the years they have been pruned under the guise that they werent performing a function etc or in the name of balancing the game

I feel that in the name of "balancing the game" a shaman is nothing more then a glorified caster/melee.

Take elemental. Totems what are totems? do they even exist. Nope they are just an elemental mage!!!

Enhancement. again totems what are those! we are warriors with a mana bar!

I even miss the quest lines to unlock the respective totem class's, fire earth water and wind.

Class immersion is a thing of the past and I think the game has suffered because of it!
I think totems are a really cool and fun design, and it would be cool if they added more. However, it's too hard to target Cancerstrike Totem in PvP right now. I guess I shouldn't be PvPing as fury warrior anyways.
10/19/2016 11:22 PMPosted by Whirrlwind
I think totems are a really cool and fun design, and it would be cool if they added more. However, it's too hard to target Cancerstrike Totem in PvP right now. I guess I shouldn't be PvPing as fury warrior anyways.


that problem is greatly exacerbated by the PRUNED UI options which allowed you to control whether you want to see nameplates for pets, minions, totems, etc.

queuing into BM Hunter + Demo Lock + Rshaman is particularly obnoxious, trying to click through 30 different imps and wolves to click a tiny little totem so that you can deal damage without one shotting yourself.

Personally I have been referring to that particular 3v3 composition as "Nameplate Cleave"
10/19/2016 11:22 PMPosted by Whirrlwind
I think totems are a really cool and fun design, and it would be cool if they added more. However, it's too hard to target Cancerstrike Totem in PvP right now. I guess I shouldn't be PvPing as fury warrior anyways.


also, I don't think the solution is to prune counterstrike totem, I would rather see the reintroduction of UI options to reduce nameplate clutter and make it harder to protect by stacking a billion pets and players on top of it, and perhaps some limitations on the totem itself like a range limitation so that it can't be placed e.g. in the back room of certain arenas where you can't kill it without overextending

in general when pruning is done for balance reasons i think that is a very heavyhanded approach, and often the wrong one. in the WoD 3v3 meta it was generally agreed that Gouge for example was too useful as a pseudointerrupt after missing an interrupt or during interrupt immunities. the solution to this (I realise 3v3 arena balance wasn't the only reason it was pruned of course, but the other reasons are bad as well) shouldn't have been to prune an iconic rogue ability from 2/3 specs but rather to increase the cooldown or resource cost associated with using it to reduce its effectiveness by an appropriate amount rather than eliminating that dimension from rogue gameplay entirely.
I've never felt like i have so little connection to my hunter
there's very little to do other than a boring damage rotation
so i agree entirely, my bars are so empty....

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