Can Havoc DH Issues be looked at? Pt. 2

Demon Hunter
1 2 3 68 Next
UPDATE 10/20/2016: Blue Response

10/20/2016 05:46 PMPosted by Ornyx
Hey everyone,

Bit of an update here - we’re looking into potentially making some changes to a few of Havoc’s talents, to diversify your options a bit and make certain rows feel more like there’s a choice to be made.

No details to share just yet, and these changes won’t make it into Patch 7.1, but we’re working on it.


A post made about 3 days ago in General Discussion voicing concerns about Havoc DH issues in a cohesive manner that opened the table for intelligent discussion has reached its thread cap. I'd like for the discussion to continue in hopes of an official acknowledgement as there are clearly some strong feelings on the matter (500 posts and a lot of consensus among demon hunters).

Here is a link to the original thread and post which mainly focused on PVE issues.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749734942?page=1

I'm including a link to a thread voicing PVP concerns by the highest (or one of the highest?) rated Demon Hunters in PVP currently:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749317055

EDIT: Another PVP post by the 2nd highest rated Demon Hunter in PVP on the ladders:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749815273

Please keep this thread alive as the original will be buried due to thread cap.
Havoc is the 6th overall best spec for DPS in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/ckhNXzw.png
Havoc is the 4th most common spec in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/kSjaKF2.png

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#dataset=90&sample=7&aggregate=amount

Single target isn't everything, and right now it doesn't matter much at all going by the fact that a spec with lower single target beats out all DK, Paladin, Rogue, Warrior, Warlock, and Shaman specs in EN.

If Single Target was buffed AOE would have to be nerfed to compensate. Considering AOE is clearly more important this would be an overall nerf and people would complain about Havoc dropping further down the logs. It would also make Havoc less desirable for M+. Blizzard can see the logs and knows this would just result is even more negativity.
I think the problem with DH community is they think single target should be the main focus for DH and if they're not on the top they cry.

It's as if they forget mythic+ and tunnel only on raid bosses and they also forget to take into account that most DH players don't know their rotations. Because clearly every DH player is amazing at this game, and it can't be them, so it has to be the class.
10/10/2016 01:02 PMPosted by Reis
There were also more good threads on PVP but I can't remember them, if someone can post them I'll edit this post to include links to them as well.


http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749815273

Helpimblínd's feedback, currently second highest DH on the ladders.
10/10/2016 01:36 PMPosted by Volgrim
There is more to consider when examining someone's DPS, than simply taking a gander at the same logs some of us -- DH included -- seem to be too fixated on.

What sort of gear did they have? By that I mean true ITEM VALUE, and not just item level ( because that system is just stupid, in my opinion). Did the DH have the awesome Haste granting trinket from Ursoc, or are they like me and get a titanforged Spontaneous Appendages trinket offering me basically nothing but an item level pad?

Beyond some people continuously spouting out about DPS, regardless where it stands, it doesn't feel very fun, challenging, and rewarding to achieve acceptable numbers due to how atrociously designed the class is. There will not be any redesign this expansion (likely never), so there needs to be some power shifts going on with ALL of our skills. The talents need a serious look at, but don't stop there, actually fix the issue. Bloodlet feels ridiculous to use as a DH, while Felblade fits overall much better. Playstyle-wise, purely my opinion, but lore-wise, couldn't be further from an opinion. Therefore, why is my only real option Bloodlet?

I won't reiterate all of the points I covered before, but I do want to make my own PoV known, as that is the point of a public forum. I will say this, if you come here complaining about a DH doing better than you, or keeping up, you better have some really awful gear going on, or your only excuse is you were unable to perform to your class' level of output. Until you have personally put the amount of time into a DH that many of us have, please withhold your narrow-minded negativity. While this is a public forum to voice your thoughts and concerns, there is no need for causing conflict simply "just 'cause."


Since there are two of these threads, I figured I would give a certain fellow another chance to down-vote me. Wouldn't want a DH to compete against a certain other agility class, would we?
It would be nice to get some sort of single target emphasis on our AoE abilities. There are a total of two single target abilities in our entire baseline kit. My .02 is to bake in increased primary target damage into Eye Beam like FoF had.

Our talents just need some more work. Some are just beyond useless regardless of tuning on them. We have one decent 108, and only one viable 104.
Didn't realize you reposted. I put mine up a min after you. I'll bump and remove so as to not fragment discussion.
10/10/2016 01:04 PMPosted by Kirvin
Havoc is the 6th overall best spec for DPS in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/ckhNXzw.png
Havoc is the 4th most common spec in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/kSjaKF2.png

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#dataset=90&sample=7&aggregate=amount

Single target isn't everything, and right now it doesn't matter much at all going by the fact that a spec with lower single target beats out all DK, Paladin, Rogue, Warrior, Warlock, and Shaman specs in EN.

If Single Target was buffed AOE would have to be nerfed to compensate. Considering AOE is clearly more important this would be an overall nerf and people would complain about Havoc dropping further down the logs. It would also make Havoc less desirable for M+. Blizzard can see the logs and knows this would just result is even more negativity.


Like I said in the duplicate thread, Thank you for bumping this thread again. I appreciate it. However, it would be better if you posted relevant numbers and not cherry-picked logs to prove your point.
I won't answer to your troll non-sense but keep bumping the thread please.
10/10/2016 01:23 PMPosted by Ansat
I think the problem with DH community is they think single target should be the main focus for DH and if they're not on the top they cry.

It's as if they forget mythic+ and tunnel only on raid bosses and they also forget to take into account that most DH players don't know their rotations. Because clearly every DH player is amazing at this game, and it can't be them, so it has to be the class.


I always get over 90th percentile on my heroics fights, and im jumping to mythic today, and i can tell the class needs some tuning, some people are overeacting for sure, but what the op said in part 1 is 100% true, im a bit tired of this high risk no reward gameplay honestly
lets see,

we got two top 20 in mythic dragons

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854

we got 1 top 20 from mythic cenarius

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1877

we got 5 tops 20 on heroic Elerethe

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1876&difficulty=4

I mean you guys look to be in a better spot then a good 2/5th of the dps specs : /
10/10/2016 01:58 PMPosted by Kày
Like I said in the duplicate thread, Thank you for bumping this thread again. I appreciate it. However, it would be better if you posted relevant numbers and not cherry-picked logs to prove your point.
I won't answer to your troll non-sense but keep bumping the thread please.

Overall DPS is not cherrypicked. Boss-only damage (what DHs have been linking) is.
TOPIC LOCKED AND STILL NO BLUE POST.
10/10/2016 02:06 PMPosted by Quizotic
lets see,

we got two top 20 in mythic dragons

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854

we got 1 top 20 from mythic cenarius

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1877

we got 5 tops 20 on heroic Elerethe

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1876&difficulty=4

I mean you guys look to be in a better spot then a good 2/5th of the dps specs : /


Cherrypicking on its finest, you made me laugh, i give you that
I just wish that you DH would stop trying to pull the entire instance before the party is ready.
This rogue has a grudge, shame on me for admitting I sucked during an Ursoc fight, he'll keep bringing that up, even though on any fight with adds or multiple targets Im high on the list of DPS.

The point is, our single target rotation is incredibly difficult compared to classes that just stand still and play keyboard, and we are not at all rewarded for it.

If you look at the gear on highly ranked DH, the only possible hypothesis in favor of detractors is that DH is more gear reliant than any other DPS class, but levels out in ST damage with the right legendaries and artifact levels.

Right now, the average mid-tier havoc player is handicapped severely in any single target fight.
10/10/2016 02:13 PMPosted by Xorm
I just wish that you DH would stop trying to pull the entire instance before the party is ready.


We apologize for that one DH, but could you leave your personal experience out of this feedback thread? we dont care about personal experiences
10/10/2016 02:11 PMPosted by Daityas
10/10/2016 02:06 PMPosted by Quizotic
lets see,

we got two top 20 in mythic dragons

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1854

we got 1 top 20 from mythic cenarius

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1877

we got 5 tops 20 on heroic Elerethe

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#boss=1876&difficulty=4

I mean you guys look to be in a better spot then a good 2/5th of the dps specs : /


Cherrypicking on its finest, you made me laugh, i give you that


how is it cherry picking? you guys are highly viable right now and there are a lot of specs in worse places. yes your single target was nerfed, but your still pulling decent numbers do to how the raids are set up, only two bosses don't have adds of some kind this tier.
10/10/2016 01:04 PMPosted by Kirvin
Havoc is the 6th overall best spec for DPS in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/ckhNXzw.png


It's not, your filters are crap. It's 4th bottom.

10/10/2016 01:04 PMPosted by Kirvin
Havoc is the 4th most common spec in Mythic Emerald Nightmare.
http://i.imgur.com/kSjaKF2.png


Who cares?

10/10/2016 01:04 PMPosted by Kirvin
Single target isn't everything


Except, it is.

Bosses die faster when you have better single target DPS. The adds in a fight like cenarius, die easier when you have better single target DPS. Every class in the game has decent enough AoE to make any other addpack a non issue when stacked together. Absurd AoE dps from one class is unnecessary and redundant.

10/10/2016 01:04 PMPosted by Kirvin
If Single Target was buffed AOE would have to be nerfed to compensate.


Duh? Literally what a lot of DH's are asking for.

Take bloodlet for example. Instead of a full 50% nerf to the ability. We wanted the 2nd and 3rd hits to be weaker and weaker, leaving the single target portion at 200%. Maybe the 2nd hit at 150%, and the 3rd at 100%.
Brilliant post by the OP, never got a chance to bump that one, but I will this one.

Here's hoping for some DH ST love...

Good luck fellas.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum