Was class balance destroyed by fantasy?

General Discussion
What are everyones thoughts on this? Every class has numerous abilities removed in Legion. Players ask Blizzard why, and I'm sure at Blizzcon the question will come up a lot. Blizzards set on fantasy to make each class play like you were in its shoes, really didn't work. I felt more like a BM Hunter in WoD then in Legion. A lot of the classes felt better being played before this expansion, is that agreeable? Class balance has also been a HUGE issue since the pre-patch went live. Blizz imposed on the "because you don't have your artifacts yet so you will be undertuned"

I wonder if this will be addressed at Blizzcon supposing questions arise from it.
Considering that in every previous expansion, class balance was also lousy, I'm going to say "no". It may or may not have helped, but you can't destroy what wasn't there.
10/31/2016 05:47 PMPosted by Hellglaive
What are everyones thoughts on this? Every class has numerous abilities removed in Legion. Players ask Blizzard why, and I'm sure at Blizzcon the question will come up a lot. Blizzards set on fantasy to make each class play like you were in its shoes, really didn't work. I felt more like a BM Hunter in WoD then in Legion. A lot of the classes felt better being played before this expansion, is that agreeable? Class balance has also been a HUGE issue since the pre-patch went live. Blizz imposed on the "because you don't have your artifacts yet so you will be undertuned"

I wonder if this will be addressed at Blizzcon supposing questions arise from it.


Pruning abilities has nothing to do with certain classes underperforming.

They could prune all the abilities in the game and give everyone 1 button to press called "damage" that did the same damage as every other class. The game would be perfectly pruned and perfectly balanced.

The problem with class balance, in my opinion, has more to do with the introduction of artifact weapons and their effect on scaling.

For example, some classes have artifact weapons where they don't reach their 3rd gold until like 29 points, while others reach them at around 23. Also, some classes have artifact weapons that provide very significant bonuses, while others are more mediocre. The class with better bonuses is going to scale better as they get more and more AP, so while they were equal in week 1 of the xpac, a few months in class A begins to pull ahead from class B.

This is just 1 factor, classes scale differently regardless of their artifact weapons, but adding in more variables made it harder to tune. Do you tune for 865 ilvl with 24 traits?

You can begin to see the problem.

Look at ffxiv, the classes in that game have very simple rotations designed to be performed on a PS4 controller, and the game has overall much better balance. WoW has much more complex DPS rotations with more variables, procs, etc...and therefore balance is a bit more out of whack.

Give it time, or reroll mage, they are always stronk.
10/31/2016 05:54 PMPosted by Tayseri
Considering that in every previous expansion, class balance was also lousy, I'm going to say "no". It may or may not have helped, but you can't destroy what wasn't there.


Hunters were never this bad in pvp actually. They took away all our traps and lowered pvp damage.
Class balance is highly overrated anyway.

Who wants to play a WoW where all the classes are exactly as good as each other?
As a warlock they did, they remove so much from us warlocks,
burning embers for destuction inculding the visual effect at being full embers,Demonic form from demo
Alot of baseline spells like demonic teleport, shadowburn, mortal coil, burning rush, etc etc.
Also for being class fantasy we dont have a teleport to our order hall?
I love playing warlock and their lore but this expansion has tested me greatly.
Class fantasy was just a stupid blanket buzz term to use when trying to justify bad/unpopular decisions.

To say they're enhancing warlock class fantasy by removing all of their individual different resources building mechanics and move us all onto RNG soul shards while gutting half of our spells is just a complete load of crap.
10/31/2016 05:56 PMPosted by Tastey
10/31/2016 05:54 PMPosted by Tayseri
Considering that in every previous expansion, class balance was also lousy, I'm going to say "no". It may or may not have helped, but you can't destroy what wasn't there.


Hunters were never this bad in pvp actually. They took away all our traps and lowered pvp damage.


I'm guessing this guy didn't watch Cdew get rickrolled by beastcleave the other day in the pre-blizzcon games.
10/31/2016 05:56 PMPosted by Mullokad
As a warlock they did, they remove so much from us warlocks,
burning embers for destuction inculding the visual effect at being full embers,Demonic form from demo
Alot of baseline spells like demonic teleport, shadowburn, mortal coil, burning rush, etc etc.
Also for being class fantasy we dont have a teleport to our order hall?
I love playing warlock and their lore but this expansion has tested me greatly.


Getting pruned to the point where your class isn't fun to play has nothing to do with balance.

Like I said, you could have 1 button that just said "damage" and did 2 mil dps and be OP.

But then you would get nerfed (see Demon Hunters at start of xpac)
"Class fantasy" is the buzzword they came up with to help pitch the changes nothing more.

10/31/2016 05:47 PMPosted by Hellglaive
I felt more like a BM Hunter in WoD then in Legion.

Oh and I felt more like a Beast Master in Vanilla when I had eyes of the beast and would directly control my pet.
There isn't even a class fantasy for hunters. So I can't blame that for the disaster my class faces.
10/31/2016 06:05 PMPosted by Zones
There isn't even a class fantasy for hunters. So I can't blame that for the disaster my class faces.


WTF is wrong with hunters? MM owns in raids and is pretty good in mythic + while BM owns in PvP and owns in mythic +
10/31/2016 05:58 PMPosted by Virus
Class fantasy was just a stupid blanket buzz term to use when trying to justify bad/unpopular decisions.

To say they're enhancing warlock class fantasy by removing all of their individual different resources building mechanics and move us all onto RNG soul shards while gutting half of our spells is just a complete load of crap.


everything xelnath made was impossible to balance so they had to redesign the warlock class
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Hunters were never this bad in pvp actually. They took away all our traps and lowered pvp damage.


I'm guessing this guy didn't watch Cdew get rickrolled by beastcleave the other day in the pre-blizzcon games.


Pre-blizzcon is 7.0.3

7.1 is were BM was massively nerfed.

I'm positive Blizzard sees the night and day difference, even if you refuse to.

They are now not used in any serious comp, and the bottom of the ladder and rep.

Please do some research. Oh and lol MM.

10/31/2016 06:10 PMPosted by Ðmoney
10/31/2016 06:05 PMPosted by Zones
There isn't even a class fantasy for hunters. So I can't blame that for the disaster my class faces.


WTF is wrong with hunters? MM owns in raids and is pretty good in mythic + while BM owns in PvP and owns in mythic +


BM owns in pvp? You might want to re-check that statement after 7.1

http://www.arenamate.net/
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pvp-rankings/
Class fantasy is just their word for axing 60%+ of our abilities including the vast majority of what made classes unique. Applyable buffs and utility provided a buffer for a performance gap because class stacking penalized you with the loss of certain utilities. With a few exceptions, there is no penalty for class stacking now, so having no locks in your raid for example because fire/arcane mages do it better is rewarded.

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