Alt Hate, Blizzard's new outlook, Dailies

General Discussion
Just felt like having a bit of a whinge.

Firstly... Alts. There is nothing friendly about having alts.
  • Nothing is Account bound.
  • No Progress is Account wide.
  • Characters are still treated like entirely separate entities.-
    I feel this one's probably not quite as self explanatory, but it stems from playing several other newer MMORPGs where your characters all mixed into a single one.

    From as early as I've experienced being in Ultima and Runescape, to current day Paragon, Warframe, and Firefall. In these games, one "character" could do everything. Did they have different classes? Yes. Could you be a jack of all trades as a singular class? No. Could you as a character? Yes.

    When is Blizzard going to take this kind of thing and do it the best like they do with everything else?
    Why is Blizzard's alt game so bad?


Blizzard appears to have this newer outlook about their game. As I've interacted with GMs and observed responses given officially and unofficial... Blizzard seems to have a much more 'business first' mindset. Now before you go "Well duh!", I don't mean that in what you're assuming if you're going 'well duh'.
  • The player's experience doesn't appear to matter.
  • If it's within the power of a GM to alleviate it, they won't.
  • If it was cool, expect it to be nerfed (Little tongue in cheek bitterness here, I admit)
  • Communication to players is what feels like an all time low. "There's a legendary catchup system!" "No, there's no legendary catchup system. It's just luck." "This just in players, the legendary system that wasn't in place and didn't exist was broken giving some classes too many legendaries."
  • Someone is a serious gambling fanatic at Blizzard and has tainted all of Legion with his gambling desire. Everything is gambling.
  • 4 levels of difficulty for dungeons. Still Leveling, Missing Mechanics, Standard instance, Sliding scale difficulty with random affixes.
  • Raiding has 4 difficulties very similar: Missing Mechanics, Slightly Less Easy & Missing Mechanics, Normal (with some missing content), The Full Raiding Experience and Very Hard.
  • All Difficulties are subset by "Gear" which is a secondary difficulty slider modified by playing various Gear Slot Machines gradually reducing difficulty as you receive more and more payouts.
  • Blizzard Also Still Hates User Interface and hasn't hired a damn soul to dedicate time to their most neglected but most used part of their game. The first thing players see, the way the player interacts with the game. But nah, we'll let players "design their own" because "we couldn't possibly satisfy everyone!". (I'm praying this conjecture is inaccurate and is merely a misunderstood observation and you actually don't carry such an opinion.)
  • 11/03/2016 09:55 PMPosted by Lothzor
    The story and content in Legion has been pretty well received. The design choices are getting massive amounts of hate. If they'd just leave well enough alone and listen to the majority of the player base, this expansion would have been a hit.
    11/03/2016 10:01 PMPosted by Riverbeard
    The expansion is a hit. A huge hit.
    I don't understand why they do these things. It harkens back to the Diablo 3 release, crap itemization and a real money auction house to milk micro-transactions from people. Similarly, here they institute alt-unfriendly gameplay, time gated stuff, and RNG to milk time from players doing stuff they don't want to do. History has shown this is a great way to kill a game and kill profits. Sometimes you have to pull your head out of the clouds and listen to customers, or your competitors will do it and you lose in the end.


WORLD QUESTS... err dailies.
  • TRAVEL TIME.
  • MORE TRAVEL TIME.
  • I TRAVEL MORE TO DO WORLD QUESTS THAN I SPEND DOING WORLD QUESTS.
  • All this world traveling has only shown me how small the world is while making it feel impossibly distant and disconnected.
  • Also... I just wanna collect cool appearances and look neat or interesting. One of the things I really liked about that Guild Wars 2 game. (I haven't played Heart of Thorns yet though, before someone starts commenting on that. Cause I don't know anything about that, just heard it was bad.)
    Um attunements are account bound as well as other things. Catch up mechanic for alts AK. Not sure what you're talking about. The idea of new expansions is to focus on your main class and do alts at a slower pace later. Then later in the expansion make faster progress.
    Artifact knowledge should be account wide, artifact power should go to all specs, honor talents should be account wide.
    11/03/2016 09:14 PMPosted by Edgelord
    Artifact knowledge should be account wide, artifact power should go to all specs, honor talents should be account wide.


    Strongly disagree with all of these.
    11/03/2016 09:04 PMPosted by Curi
    I TRAVEL MORE TO DO WORLD QUESTS THAN I SPEND DOING WORLD QUESTS.


    This.

    I would love if world quest were focused in one area each day the same way dailies were (mostly). The traveling time makes the process pretty annoying especially when you have to deal with legion's overly intricate terrain..
    The story and content in Legion has been pretty well received. The design choices are getting massive amounts of hate. If they'd just leave well enough alone and listen to the majority of the player base, this expansion would have been a hit. I don't understand why they do these things. It harkens back to the Diablo 3 release, crap itemization and a real money auction house to milk micro-transactions from people. Similarly, here they institute alt-unfriendly gameplay, time gated stuff, and RNG to milk time from players doing stuff they don't want to do. History has shown this is a great way to kill a game and kill profits. Sometimes you have to pull your head out of the clouds and listen to customers, or your competitors will do it and you lose in the end.
    Why not make levels, rep, and gear account wide as well? I mean you did already do it on one character why should your alts need to redo anything?
    The story and content in Legion has been pretty well received. The design choices are getting massive amounts of hate. If they'd just leave well enough alone and listen to the majority of the player base, this expansion would have been a hit. I don't understand why they do these things. It harkens back to the Diablo 3 release, crap itemization and a real money auction house to milk micro-transactions from people. Similarly, here they institute alt-unfriendly gameplay, time gated stuff, and RNG to milk time from players doing stuff they don't want to do. History has shown this is a great way to kill a game and kill profits. Sometimes you have to pull your head out of the clouds and listen to customers, or your competitors will do it and you lose in the end.


    The expansion is a hit. A huge hit.

    They dont listen to tantrums and drivel on this forum and nor should they.
    11/03/2016 09:14 PMPosted by Edgelord
    Artifact knowledge should be account wide, artifact power should go to all specs, honor talents should be account wide.
    I totally disagree. All the current players have their max/main toons.
    We have new players coming in. If you make AK account wide, they will never be accepted to groups or get to play this wonderful game. New players would have no hope in hell of catching up.
    IF however they leave it as it is, those new players are on the same playing field as our alts. It's how it should be.
    I truly believe this was a very smart business decision.
    11/03/2016 09:04 PMPosted by Curi
    Characters are still treated like entirely separate entities.-


    Most games are still like that. Don't expect it to change anytime soon just because one or two did something wildly different. I don't even think Blizzard could ever realistically transition to that model in a way that wouldn't just end up upsetting basically everyone even if they wanted to.
    in my honest opinion, those that are asking for account wide artifact perks are very lazy and just want the best of both worlds.
    IMO, your alts aren't your mains. They should NOT be having the power of your mains this early in expansion.
    How would you feel if your main was being completely annihilated from somebody else's alt? It's NOT a good feeling.

    Blizzard, please don't cave in on this. This request seems to come from those that want to overpower everyone every time without any concern to other players or the state of the game. It reeks of laziness . I believe if you want to create an alt, go and do it instead of complaining about it. Your alt will catch up.

    Just my 2 cents.
    AK should not be account wide.

    It should be removed entirely and all AP costs scaled down accordingly.

    AK is a gating mechanism, not a catch-up mechanism.
    Actually I want AK to be account wide because I'm not entirely certain what I really want to main. So far this expansion I'm not pleased at all with pally healing But healing is what I enjoy doing so what does that leave me to do.. buuut Level another healer Now I've invested a crapload of time and artifact knowledge into one character. But not only do I have to level another healer class from 1 to 110 I also need to Redo all of the AK on them on top of spending days and weeks on another char grinding out exalted reps for everyone while re-exploring all of the isles and then.. WQ hoping beyond hope that my time investment repays off again.

    Now then Neila explain to me wherein asking for a little leeway on something that takes roughly.. 23 Weeks to max out is.. Lazy? You still are going to be taking quite a bit of time out to power up your new classes artifact weapon. but you can still catch up after.....a few hundred dungeoun runs for AP and since Ak doesn't even become available until level 110 you're being a doomcrier over nothing wherein is this going to OP other people? hrrm? if anything it'd go a long way towards keeping people vested while allowing them some forgivness for choosing the wrong class/spec to main this expansion.
    11/03/2016 09:04 PMPosted by Curi
    Just felt like having a bit of a whinge.

    Firstly... Alts. There is nothing friendly about having alts.
    • Nothing is Account bound.
    • No Progress is Account wide.
    • Characters are still treated like entirely separate entities.-
      I feel this one's probably not quite as self explanatory, but it stems from playing several other newer MMORPGs where your characters all mixed into a single one.

      From as early as I've experienced being in Ultima and Runescape, to current day Paragon, Warframe, and Firefall. In these games, one "character" could do everything. Did they have different classes? Yes. Could you be a jack of all trades as a singular class? No. Could you as a character? Yes.

      When is Blizzard going to take this kind of thing and do it the best like they do with everything else?
      Why is Blizzard's alt game so bad?


    Blizzard appears to have this newer outlook about their game. As I've interacted with GMs and observed responses given officially and unofficial... Blizzard seems to have a much more 'business first' mindset. Now before you go "Well duh!", I don't mean that in what you're assuming if you're going 'well duh'.
    • The player's experience doesn't appear to matter.
    • If it's within the power of a GM to alleviate it, they won't.
    • If it was cool, expect it to be nerfed (Little tongue in cheek bitterness here, I admit)
    • Communication to players is what feels like an all time low. "There's a legendary catchup system!" "No, there's no legendary catchup system. It's just luck." "This just in players, the legendary system that wasn't in place and didn't exist was broken giving some classes too many legendaries."
    • Someone is a serious gambling fanatic at Blizzard and has tainted all of Legion with his gambling desire. Everything is gambling.
    • 4 levels of difficulty for dungeons. Still Leveling, Missing Mechanics, Standard instance, Sliding scale difficulty with random affixes.
    • Raiding has 4 difficulties very similar: Missing Mechanics, Slightly Less Easy & Missing Mechanics, Normal (with some missing content), The Full Raiding Experience and Very Hard.
    • All Difficulties are subset by "Gear" which is a secondary difficulty slider modified by playing various Gear Slot Machines gradually reducing difficulty as you receive more and more payouts.
    • Blizzard Also Still Hates User Interface and hasn't hired a damn soul to dedicate time to their most neglected but most used part of their game. The first thing players see, the way the player interacts with the game. But nah, we'll let players "design their own" because "we couldn't possibly satisfy everyone!". (I'm praying this conjecture is inaccurate and is merely a misunderstood observation and you actually don't carry such an opinion.)


    WORLD QUESTS... err dailies.
  • TRAVEL TIME.
  • MORE TRAVEL TIME.
  • I TRAVEL MORE TO DO WORLD QUESTS THAN I SPEND DOING WORLD QUESTS.
  • All this world traveling has only shown me how small the world is while making it feel impossibly distant and disconnected.


  • That list is largely anecdotal or simply not true. Shame on you.
    11/03/2016 09:14 PMPosted by Edgelord
    Artifact knowledge should be account wide, artifact power should go to all specs, honor talents should be account wide.


    You would think they would do this, but unfortunately not all developers have a clever mind to make it easier and fun for their audience. Nothing, but a cash grab and see if Activision Senpai notice Blizzard.

    Part of me wish they had the FFXIV concept where you play one toon and have all class cause it's too much time consuming in this expansion to play alts.
    11/03/2016 11:13 PMPosted by Brutalistica
    11/03/2016 09:14 PMPosted by Edgelord
    Artifact knowledge should be account wide, artifact power should go to all specs, honor talents should be account wide.


    You would think they would do this, but unfortunately not all developers have a clever mind to make it easier and fun for their audience. Nothing, but a cash grab and see if Activision Senpai notice Blizzard.

    Part of me wish they had the FFXIV concept where you play one toon and have all class cause it's too much time consuming in this expansion to play alts.
    And how friend, would those new coming into the game ever catch up?
    Or are they just irrelevant casualties to this great idea?
    11/03/2016 11:23 PMPosted by Neila
    And how friend, would those new coming into the game ever catch up?
    Or are they just irrelevant casualties to this great idea?


    Seeing how long it took me to get two artifact weapons 3rd major artifact unlock. I wouldn't mind account bound features to alts and rep. Once completed on one toon should make it accessible to any characters on the account.
    11/03/2016 10:01 PMPosted by Riverbeard
    The story and content in Legion has been pretty well received. The design choices are getting massive amounts of hate. If they'd just leave well enough alone and listen to the majority of the player base, this expansion would have been a hit. I don't understand why they do these things. It harkens back to the Diablo 3 release, crap itemization and a real money auction house to milk micro-transactions from people. Similarly, here they institute alt-unfriendly gameplay, time gated stuff, and RNG to milk time from players doing stuff they don't want to do. History has shown this is a great way to kill a game and kill profits. Sometimes you have to pull your head out of the clouds and listen to customers, or your competitors will do it and you lose in the end.


    The expansion is a hit. A huge hit.

    They dont listen to tantrums and drivel on this forum and nor should they.


    If Legion was a huge hit, I seriously doubt there would be CRZ 1 month after launch. Even in WoD, the worst expansion by miles and miles didnt implement CRZ until the pre-patch.

    If you think they added CRZ to Legion because it was a smashing success you need to return to school and get an education. It's simple common sense. We have so much CRZ because without it the world (new content, not old world) would feel like a graveyard.

    Dont believe me? Try this; next time you are out WQs write down how many people from your server group you see. I've done it. It's not good.
    Gearing my alt has been rather painful, and I think you are 100% spot on with this:

    11/03/2016 09:04 PMPosted by Curi
    Nothing is Account bound.
    No Progress is Account wide.
    Characters are still treated like entirely separate entities.-


    That being said I think you are a bit off base with this:

    11/03/2016 09:04 PMPosted by Curi
    The player's experience doesn't appear to matter.


    While I agree that Blizzard has had issues with delivering a quality product in the previous expansion, I have no doubt in my mind that this current expansion is a much better product than its predecessor. It is clear that Blizzard stepped up its game this time around and actually listened to player feedback from Warlords of Dreanor. While there are still some issues, I think Blizzard actually deserves a bit of praise for delivering a much better product than what they gave to us just a couple of years ago.

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