Why is there loot entitlement in pugs?

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11/06/2016 02:18 PMPosted by Brockthorn
11/06/2016 02:17 PMPosted by Mattr

It should have. If this was any other xpac YOU WOULD NOT HAVE EVER GOTTEN THAT LOOT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


But it's not "any other xpac". It's legion and with the current way loot rolls not looting the boss eliminates the ugliness.


But it doesn't eliminate the ugliness. The outcome of keeping PL for gold is equivalent to rolling need for everything. It just lets you feel good on a technicality.
11/06/2016 02:18 PMPosted by Elhaa
11/06/2016 11:04 AMPosted by Skurvy
It would be very selfish to keep the item if all you are getting out of it is a few gold from a vendor. It's sometimes pretty obvious that an item is not useful. I'd boot you in a heartbeat for being selfish. You are only getting loot from the mythic because the other players are there along with you. It's a team effort. Sometimes you have to give something back to the team, especially when the cost to you is inconsequential.


And I would boot you in a heartbeat for being the loot !@#$% that thinks he is entitled to everybody else's drops.


I second this notion. The loot was dropped for someone else. At that point you rely on their kindness and your manners.

Acting like an entitled brat deserves a group spanking.
I'll actively look over my party members to see if things are better, and will offer them items without being asked if it seems to be an upgrade for them. I also actively ask in party if anyone needs something I do not, and readily trade it over.

Literally the only time I won't trade someone something is if they're a total douche about it, which it seems like you may have encountered someone like that.

Gear in this game is so important, and I've a larger opportunity to get it than most. It just feels so petty to try and keep something because "I looted it and they didn't", especially if for something so trivial as vendor trash.
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item? What entitles anyone, at any time, to demand possession of someone else's stuff?
11/06/2016 10:40 AMPosted by Hunterp
Did a few mythics this morning to pass the time and pray to the legendary gods when I had a group kick me because I wouldn't give up my item drop.

"Your [insert item here] is higher ilvl than [insert dropped item here]. It's a huge upgrade for me so hand it over [opens trade window]"

The item [1] pays for my repair bill [2] adds a transmog to my library [3] could still be an upgrade based on secondary stats. When I refused to trade it the other people started complaining as well about it and demanded I give the item away.

I stood my ground and was kicked from the group because of it. This isn't the first time someone's wanted an item drop from me but usually people just pout and let it go.

Why is it expected now for you to give away your loot to complete strangers? What's the proper response when someone makes a demand and backs it up with threats to kick you?


Your loot your decision.

Their group, their rules.

I run my guild raids under a "use it or give it up" rule set for Personal loot, I think it works well. If I ran a pug I'd run it the same way, I'd advertise it as that (big important point) and if someone ignored all thats, then I'd kicked them.

This isn't a LFD with a tyranny of the majority. It is a group you were invited to by a group leader, the group leader can kick you just because half way through the run he decided your transmog was ugly. Find a a new group or start your own.
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item that belongs to the player it dropped for? What entitles anyone at any time to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


Because you shouldn't have gotten it. If blizzard used round robin in groups instead of need before greed i don't think anyone would be praising people getting to keep loot they don't need as a good system.
11/06/2016 02:21 PMPosted by Baelzareus
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item? What entitles anyone, at any time, to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


Not a damn thing entitles them to the drops. And there isn't a damn thing they can do about it to get it either.

What are they going to do? Kick you from the group because timmy-timmy-gimme-gimme couldn't get the item?

So be it then. There are literally thousands of groups available to join.
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item? What entitles anyone, at any time, to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


And then the victim that got kicked becomes the greedy bad guy.

That's the very definition of "entitlement".
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item that belongs to the player it dropped for? What entitles anyone at any time to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


Because you shouldn't have gotten it. If blizzard used round robin in groups instead of need before greed i don't think anyone would be praising people getting to keep loot they don't need as a good system.
11/06/2016 12:38 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2016 12:37 PMPosted by Arcalic
I would absolutely kick you if told me you were going to vendor an item instead of help someone out. Wouldn't even think twice about it


Ironic, since I would vendor an item and leave just on principle if a group tried to blackmail me into handing it over.
My main is an enchanter it's even better when you shard it.
11/06/2016 02:24 PMPosted by Mattr
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item that belongs to the player it dropped for? What entitles anyone at any time to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


Because you shouldn't have gotten it. If blizzard used round robin in groups instead of need before greed i don't think anyone would be praising people getting to keep loot they don't need as a good system.


You don't seem to understand. Regardless of wether or not you can use the item. The item itself DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU.

You may ask for it. You may beg for it. But the choice remains in that players hand who's luck got them the drop if they want to give it to you or not.

And throwing a tantrum like a spoiled brat over it is !@#$ing ridiculous and ignore worthy.
If people offer, I'll accept, but I've never flat out asked anyone. Was tempted to in lfr, but figured the person who got the drop was doing a transmog run.
11/06/2016 02:24 PMPosted by Mattr
...

Because you shouldn't have gotten it. If blizzard used round robin in groups instead of need before greed i don't think anyone would be praising people getting to keep loot they don't need as a good system.


You don't seem to understand. Regardless of wether or not you can use the item. The item itself DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU.

You may ask for it. You may beg for it. But the choice remains in that players hand who's luck got them the drop if they want to give it to you or not.

And throwing a tantrum like a spoiled brat over it is !@#$ing ridiculous and ignore worthy.


Nobody said you didn't receive. What I am saying is keeping a piece of loot you don;t need when someone else does is the (for the lack of a better word) moral equivalent on needing on things you don't need.
11/06/2016 02:22 PMPosted by Mattr
I see quite a few responses talking about why trading Loot makes you a good team player.

What does this have to do with anything? The moment anyone in the group adopts the mindset of "give me what I want or else" it's *that* person who has ceased to be a team player.

Which leads to another question. Why are so many of you defending players who outright demand that another player surrender an item that belongs to the player it dropped for? What entitles anyone at any time to demand possession of someone else's stuff?


Because you shouldn't have gotten it. If blizzard used round robin in groups instead of need before greed i don't think anyone would be praising people getting to keep loot they don't need as a good system.


You will still get people like me needing on a 830 fcm on my pally when I have a 845 rending paw. People don't understand that ilvl isn't the only thing. Ive gotten booted before for not passing a lower ilvl thing when it had better stats and will gladly do it again
11/06/2016 02:20 PMPosted by Mattr
11/06/2016 02:18 PMPosted by Brockthorn
...

But it's not "any other xpac". It's legion and with the current way loot rolls not looting the boss eliminates the ugliness.


But it doesn't eliminate the ugliness. The outcome of keeping PL for gold is equivalent to rolling need for everything. It just lets you feel good on a technicality.


no it's not

players aren't rolling against each other for loot. The game rolls for each person indivdiually. in a PL setting, me winning an item in no way affects you winning an item.

Personal loot is loot that goes into my bags and is 100% up to me to determine what to do with. It is not loot that goes into my bags but really belogs to everyone and will be loot councilled out.
...

You don't seem to understand. Regardless of wether or not you can use the item. The item itself DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU.

You may ask for it. You may beg for it. But the choice remains in that players hand who's luck got them the drop if they want to give it to you or not.

And throwing a tantrum like a spoiled brat over it is !@#$ing ridiculous and ignore worthy.


Nobody said you didn't receive. What I am saying is keeping a piece of loot you don;t need when someone else does is the (for the lack of a better word) moral equivalent on needing on things you don't need.


It's really not though. You didn't win a roll against anyone to get that loot. It just dropped for you that is all.

Furthermore it did not drop for anyone else but you. And to act like it did is asinine.

The loot didn't drop for you it dropped for someone else, yet for some reason you seem to think that because you could use it that it belongs to you.

Entitlement. Usually a bad thing.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

But it doesn't eliminate the ugliness. The outcome of keeping PL for gold is equivalent to rolling need for everything. It just lets you feel good on a technicality.


no it's not

players aren't rolling against each other for loot. The game rolls for each person indivdiually. in a PL setting, me winning an item in no way affects you winning an item.

Personal loot is loot that goes into my bags and is 100% up to me to determine what to do with. It is not loot that goes into my bags but really belogs to everyone and will be loot councilled out.


Except the # of PL pieces is identical to the classic loot system. Instead of 3 pieces of loot dropping and those that need it roll, 3 pieces of loot drop and 3 random people receive it.

PL is the equivalent of the old system with everyone auto need rolling + add drops only be loot someone in the grp can equip.
11/06/2016 10:40 AMPosted by Hunterp
Did a few mythics this morning to pass the time and pray to the legendary gods when I had a group kick me because I wouldn't give up my item drop.

"Your [insert item here] is higher ilvl than [insert dropped item here]. It's a huge upgrade for me so hand it over [opens trade window]"

The item [1] pays for my repair bill [2] adds a transmog to my library [3] could still be an upgrade based on secondary stats. When I refused to trade it the other people started complaining as well about it and demanded I give the item away.

I stood my ground and was kicked from the group because of it. This isn't the first time someone's wanted an item drop from me but usually people just pout and let it go.

Why is it expected now for you to give away your loot to complete strangers? What's the proper response when someone makes a demand and backs it up with threats to kick you?
because blizz made a toxic community with all the easy mode and convenience they added.

Legacy Server Announcement: Nostalrius is merging with Elysium. Going vanilla. http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44550
11/06/2016 02:29 PMPosted by Mattr
...

no it's not

players aren't rolling against each other for loot. The game rolls for each person indivdiually. in a PL setting, me winning an item in no way affects you winning an item.

Personal loot is loot that goes into my bags and is 100% up to me to determine what to do with. It is not loot that goes into my bags but really belogs to everyone and will be loot councilled out.


Except the # of PL pieces is identical to the classic loot system. Instead of 3 pieces of loot dropping and those that need it roll, 3 pieces of loot drop and 3 random people receive it.

PL is the physical equivalent of old system with round robin + add drops only be loot someone in the grp can equip.

Citation needed.

Not to mention that the fact remains that the loot BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE IT DROPPED FOR and no one else.

Seriously. It's scary how you think.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

Except the # of PL pieces is identical to the classic loot system. Instead of 3 pieces of loot dropping and those that need it roll, 3 pieces of loot drop and 3 random people receive it.

PL is the physical equivalent of old system with round robin + add drops only be loot someone in the grp can equip.

Citation needed.

Not to mention that the fact remains that the loot BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE IT DROPPED FOR and no one else.

I dont see how you don't grasp that this is the FIRST TIME IN WOW HISTORY people getting loot they don't need over people who do need is being seen as a 'good' thing.

Seriously. It's scary how you think.


Sure and if i roll need on something i dont need and win the rng roll it belongs to me. That doesn't make me a good person.

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